Simitis: Turkey-Greece war would last 2 hours

[Zulkarneyn]

No they haven't learned anything. The approach to solving the crisis is absolutely the wrong one.

Greece didn't need the bailout in the first place, all it needed was low interest rates to carry on borrowing in a rolling kind of way.

With the current consumer lifestyle of Greeks a total bankruptcy is inevitable. Greece imports about €50 billion and exports €16 billion. This means their current GDP per capita which shows around $27.000 is unsustainable with their national economy. Add to this Greece's $532.9 billion external debt.

Tourism which is the biggest provider for Greece has also fallen dramatically the last couple of years. Guess why? Greece is expensive and Turkey is cheap. Hence tourists nowadays prefer Turkey rather than bankrupt and expensive Greece.
Also Greece's idiotic attempt to catch up to Turkey in military has also been a significant factor for its demise.

 

[amalakas]

With the current consumer lifestyle of Greeks a total bankruptcy is inevitable. Greece imports about €50 billion and exports €16 billion. This means their current GDP per capita which shows around $27.000 is unsustainable with their national economy. Add to this Greece's $532.9 billion external debt.

Tourism which is the biggest provider for Greece has also fallen dramatically the last couple of years. Guess why? Greece is expensive and Turkey is cheap. Hence tourists nowadays prefer Turkey rather than bankrupt and expensive Greece.
Also Greece's idiotic attempt to catch up to Turkey in military has also been a significant factor for its demise.

I cannot comment on the balance of trade. It has been a long and steady demise of the manufacturing in Greece.

It is logical that you as a Turk, see only the Greek opposite you. It makes sense, but it also hides the truth.

You for example are unaware (because you don't have to), that EU regulations forced Greece to reduce its produce year after year after year.

Farming and industry have been funded to essentially go still. i.e. stop.

And how can Greece's tourism not be expensive, you yourself said that the balance of trade is negative for Greece. These prices must be rolled to the consumer. No matter who he is, tourist or Greek.

And as of the stupidity of Greece having a mini arms race with turkey, I am sorry, but it was a necessity and dictated by large by Turkish foreign policies.

And don't be foolish, you like to see Greece as a small weak and now bust country, but Turkish and Nato military know very well, that pound for pound, Greece is stronger militarily than many other Nato and other countries in General.

Would we need this money elsewhere if we were something like Belgium or Switzerland? You bet!

Do we want to have an army ? No we don't

but had we not had an army, half of the aegean would have been turkish like cyprus by now. so don't pose these arguments they are only the surface of a vast pool of things.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I cannot comment on the balance of trade. It has been a long and steady demise of the manufacturing in Greece.

It is logical that you as a Turk, see only the Greek opposite you. It makes sense, but it also hides the truth.

You for example are unaware (because you don't have to), that EU regulations forced Greece to reduce its produce year after year after year.

Farming and industry have been funded to essentially go still. i.e. stop.

And how can Greece's tourism not be expensive, you yourself said that the balance of trade is negative for Greece. These prices must be rolled to the consumer. No matter who he is, tourist or Greek.

And as of the stupidity of Greece having a mini arms race with turkey, I am sorry, but it was a necessity and dictated by large by Turkish foreign policies.

And don't be foolish, you like to see Greece as a small weak and now bust country, but Turkish and Nato military know very well, that pound for pound, Greece is stronger militarily than many other Nato and other countries in General.

Would we need this money elsewhere if we were something like Belgium or Switzerland? You bet!

Do we want to have an army ? No we don't

but had we not had an army, half of the aegean would have been turkish like cyprus by now. so don't pose these arguments they are only the surface of a vast pool of things.

How exactly would Turkey invade Greece when they are both in the NATO? If Turkey did something as foolish as that it would mean the end for Turkey as well. Being isolated by the international community for invading a foreign country.
As for my opinion about Greece. If it were up to me i would never allow either Greece or Turkey to enter into EU, because it wouldn't benefit Turkey as well. Turkey's production has boomed for several years now and if we entered EU i am sure things would slow down. I would much rather make a free trade zone between the medeterinian countries like Greece, Italy, Turkey North Africa etc. Because trust me, these countries are much closer to each other than Scandinavia and Germany, that is culturally and many other things. No matter what, if Greece goes total bankrupt in the coming months it would mean the beginning of Greek slavery

If Turkey and Greece had leaders that were pragmatic enough to understand the benefits of being friends with your neighbours, this would never happen today. But i guess stupid political decisions and ignorant leaders have done this to Greece and Turkey as well for many decades.

 

[silko]

Turkey needs to respect Greece and Leave Cyprus end of story.

first, off topic.

second, learn some history.

third, stop trolling.

 

[Alpery]

The economic logic for/against the bailout is the old adage about throwing good money after bad. At some point, you have to realize that you are not going to get your money back and it's time to cut the losses. The motivation for the bailout is purely political (i.e. ego). Germany and France can not let Greece fail because that would amount to an admission that the EU has failed.

there is no Greece...it is some region of EU nowadays.
they has been government confiscated.

 

[Mehmet]

Lol

Jokes aside, Turkey fighting Greece would be disaster for both countries. Both countries are pragmatic enough to know the outcome of such a foolish scenario, hence it is an impossibility. Turkey should instead help Greece in these difficult times, in the end we are neighbours and neighbours should help each other.

WTF Help Greece??? Are you serious!!

The last time Turkey helped Greece was during WW2 when Nazi forces left the people of Greece starving, the country quickly dropped to famine levels & Turkey dispatched around 100 ships (SS Kurtulus among them) to bring food aid to the starving Greeks.

The important fact is today we dont get any recognition for this and instead the Greeks continue to dream of megali through conquest of Macedonia and Turkey's West while also complaining to the world about the "evil" Turks. They also idiotically claim genocide was done against them even though an agreement of transfer of populations was done kicking a million Greeks out of Turkish lands, they also idiotically think it was the Greek resistance that ultimately led to the defeat of Hitler completely ignoring and insulting the Soviet arms industry development during WW2, the real French/Ukrainian underground resistance forces & the massive UK/USA commitment to win the war.

Anyone who helps the Greeks by giving free or cheaply borrowed money (EU) or rushes aid to them to prevent the extinction of the Greek nation (WW2 Turkish humanitarian efforts) eventually regrets it. This regret is partly due to Greeks being the most xenophobic people in the world and mostly because they practice revisionist history (for example blaming Turkey for Cyprus partition but ignoring the events that lasted some 10 years prior that led to the intervention by Turkey in Cyprus in 74).

The best thing for both countries is for Turkey to continue to develop culturally, economically and in it's military while Greece is forced to come down from it's cozy self styled status as the birthplace of Western civilization accepts real world demands on it's economy (better taxation, less corruption & bribes, real world valuation of it's GDP & PPP) and becomes a nation that has an actual industrial base & not a fictional mystical crap that they spoon feed everybody. In the end Turkey will be so powerful that Greece and her fanatics will be unable to do jack squat to the Turks, Macedonians & Albanians ever again like how they did in the past through ethnic cleansing programs the Greeks never like to talk about.

 

[Mehmet]

On another note the Greeks are so utterly fanatical that many of them deny their nation is in a dire financial downturn (read real world market revaluation on the Greek nation) not to mention that many of them think that Greece can defeat Turkey (dear Greeks your S-300PMU & most of your AA network is vulnerable to Turkish JDAMS ).

Gaaah it's so utterly pathetic how many Greeks on the web troll that Russia can stand against the USA never mind the fact that Russia is a shadow of it's USSR days and the Turkish army alone is larger then the Russian army (not airforce or navy, read army only).

Then again Greeks are so fanatical that they think Russia will send her only aircraft carrier (apparently carrying Greek combat aircraft as well) into the Aegean to protect Greece, it must also be invisible to sneak past the Bosphorus BAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[Ulysses]

you people are making fools out of yourselves...

Both Turkey and Greece are Nato Allies and will not go to war with each other..... SURE there are some differences between you guys but its normal to have differences.... heck even we have differences with both UK/France and Isreal, but that does not mean we are going to kill each other for Christ sakes.

You people around or near the middle east need to stop killing each other, wake up and smell the god damn coffee noobs

 

[Alienoz_TR]

@ulysses.

Perhaps you have to learn more about disputes between Turkey and Greece. And more about Cyprus.

 

[amalakas]

WTF Help Greece??? Are you serious!!

The last time Turkey helped Greece was during WW2 when Nazi forces left the people of Greece starving, the country quickly dropped to famine levels & Turkey dispatched around 100 ships (SS Kurtulus among them) to bring food aid to the starving Greeks.

The important fact is today we dont get any recognition for this and instead the Greeks continue to dream of megali through conquest of Macedonia and Turkey's West while also complaining to the world about the "evil" Turks. They also idiotically claim genocide was done against them even though an agreement of transfer of populations was done kicking a million Greeks out of Turkish lands, they also idiotically think it was the Greek resistance that ultimately led to the defeat of Hitler completely ignoring and insulting the Soviet arms industry development during WW2, the real French/Ukrainian underground resistance forces & the massive UK/USA commitment to win the war.

Anyone who helps the Greeks by giving free or cheaply borrowed money (EU) or rushes aid to them to prevent the extinction of the Greek nation (WW2 Turkish humanitarian efforts) eventually regrets it. This regret is partly due to Greeks being the most xenophobic people in the world and mostly because they practice revisionist history (for example blaming Turkey for Cyprus partition but ignoring the events that lasted some 10 years prior that led to the intervention by Turkey in Cyprus in 74).

The best thing for both countries is for Turkey to continue to develop culturally, economically and in it's military while Greece is forced to come down from it's cozy self styled status as the birthplace of Western civilization accepts real world demands on it's economy (better taxation, less corruption & bribes, real world valuation of it's GDP & PPP) and becomes a nation that has an actual industrial base & not a fictional mystical crap that they spoon feed everybody. In the end Turkey will be so powerful that Greece and her fanatics will be unable to do jack squat to the Turks, Macedonians & Albanians ever again like how they did in the past through ethnic cleansing programs the Greeks never like to talk about.

You are dangerous, uneducated, fanatical and insulting.

 

[Mehmet]

You are dangerous, uneducated, fanatical and insulting.

LOL I aint a revisionist practicing Greek. Although I would beg to differ regarding my education since I have been stating for many years before the 2009 financial crisis that you arrogant colonizers (Europe) will have to succumb one day to world demands on transparency regarding your economy & even now I claim that the xenophobia you Europeans have re-embraced will only get worse, enough to make Hitler proud and all the dead troops who fought for freedom in Europe curse you from beyond the grave.

Dangerous?? FYI:

1. Greek Cypriots raise their kids with slogans "long live the junta".
2. Greek Cypriots & their mainland Greek masters slaughtered Turks and terrorized British security personnel in Cyprus.
3. Greece has the worst refugee and illegal settlers detention facilities in all of the "Western" modernized world, akin to ghetto's Nazi's forced German and Polish Jews into.
4. It was Greece who militarized her islands in the 50's despite agreements marking the start of the Turko-Greek arms race.
5. It is Greece who since independence has only had 30 years of peace making you barbars.
6. It is Greeks today who remain defiant, arrogant and uneducated enough to claim that their nation is only suffering a minor financial hickup.
7. It is Greeks today who placed in charge of Greece the very man who was responsible for your economic management during Papandreou's term (also he is mostly responsible for your entry in the EU in the first place) which in turn questions the logic of Greek voters.
8. It is Greece who recently complained in a rather paranoid fashion Turkey's construction of small mostly plastic hovercraft vessels
9. It is Greece education system which fails to educate Greeks regarding Greece's role pre 1974 as well as a complete lack of education regarding the ethnic cleansing of Turks, Albanians, Jews and Macedonians you all practiced in Salonika and other major urban areas after the Ottoman withdrawal.
10. It is Greece that does not have a SINGLE Islamic religious practice center while Turkey has over 100 and counting Christian and Jewish centers of worship.
11. Greece maintains a neo Nazi party the Golden Dawn who praised the 2010 Greek troops during your independence day parade chanting that they will skin Albanians and Turks.

All the attributes you classified me with actually applies to your nation as evidenced by anyone who surfs the web and visits your nation.

 

[Mehmet]

For proof how uneducated, xenophobic and paranoid the nation of Greece is please visit these recently added to the interwebs link that very much explain through the structure of the language used the nature of Greece.

DefenceNet - ???? ? ?????????? "?????????" ??? ???????????? ???? ??? ???????!

DefenceNet - ? ???-??????????? ???? ?????? ? ? ??????? ?????????? ????? ???? «????????? ???????????»

Do note that in Greece (which I have personally visited in the past) Defencenet is one of the most widely distributed defense industry magazine and in the past they have also made strong pro articles regarding

1. Mayan end of the world theory.
2. The argument of Russia being a technologically superior market of weapons manufacturer to the USA (& NATO by extension)
3. That UFO's exist and are possibly related to the NWO

Greek education/paranoia at its finest

 

[Mehmet]

you people are making fools out of yourselves...

Both Turkey and Greece are Nato Allies and will not go to war with each other..... SURE there are some differences between you guys but its normal to have differences.... heck even we have differences with both UK/France and Isreal, but that does not mean we are going to kill each other for Christ sakes.

You people around or near the middle east need to stop killing each other, wake up and smell the god damn coffee noobs

I agree people should stop killing each other, perhaps my dear Yankee chap you could once again as the only reigning superpower in the world set the example by fixing your mess in Iraq and abolishing the death penalty in many of your states?? While we are at it the USA should cut back on it's recent policies that are moving it into a neo police state where remixing (everything in the modern world is a remix, music, films, books etc all borrow ideas and remix them into a new form) for the home users and small ppl as a form of expression is increasingly being called piracy by your idiotic politicians.

While we are at it the USA should only answer to the USA get rid of all the "foreign" interests in your country which include the terrorist organization ARF, the all powerful Jewish lobby groups, the Greek lobby groups who are all trying to destroy your alliance with Turkey who you have had diplomatic relations since the 18 hundreds.

Also vote for Ron Paul, increase gun controls and just letting ya know Medicare is not Communism.

 

[amalakas]

I agree people should stop killing each other, perhaps my dear Yankee chap you could once again as the only reigning superpower in the world set the example by fixing your mess in Iraq and abolishing the death penalty in many of your states?? While we are at it the USA should cut back on it's recent policies that are moving it into a neo police state where remixing (everything in the modern world is a remix, music, films, books etc all borrow ideas and remix them into a new form) for the home users and small ppl as a form of expression is increasingly being called piracy by your idiotic politicians.

While we are at it the USA should only answer to the USA get rid of all the "foreign" interests in your country which include the terrorist organization ARF, the all powerful Jewish lobby groups, the Greek lobby groups who are all trying to destroy your alliance with Turkey who you have had diplomatic relations since the 18 hundreds.

Also vote for Ron Paul, increase gun controls and just letting ya know Medicare is not Communism.

you are falling deeper and deeper into madness, I am sorry you have such a twisted world perspective that you are beyond words.

believe what you want. After all your world is between your ears.

 

[Mehmet]

you are falling deeper and deeper into madness, I am sorry you have such a twisted world perspective that you are beyond words.

believe what you want. After all your world is between your ears.

Only the truly naive and the pathological opposition group of I would find my previous words madness.

As someone once said reality is the perspective of the individual. Until you deconstruct and analyze the reality that you have been indoctrinated into you will never understand the feelings and perspective of others. Europeans have always failed to understand the reality beyond what exists outside of what they define it to be, take for example the stuck up attitudes you European are famous for, what you call colonization and the gift of civilization Africans, Indians, Native Americans, Jews and Muslims alike call it mass murder, rape of the land, genocide and barbarism.

The current sad reality of Europe is that the continent is recreating the conditions that led to the events of World War 2. Through increased discrimination and xenophobia you Europeans are heading back down the path of mutual destruction, in the ideological sense the EU is already dead including the freedom of expression and democracy it was meant to create. The Irish recently were told that they cannot have elections until they fix their economy, as Nigel Farel put it plainly before the European ignoramus idiots "who do you think you are".

If you want to call somebody mad then you should turn around and have a look at your own backyard and I can point out many recent cases of European madness, some of which involve the case of Julian Assange, the Irish elections and the Roma evictions, of course the reply to this post by the pathological oppositionist to the case of I is to of course dismiss my claims and continue to be content and ignorant of his/her environment.

Edit: Getting back to the thread topic I am glad that this former Greek official feels that Turkey would crush Greece at least then it gives peace a chance since it is Greece who has been the aggressor to modern day Turkey of the 3/3 conflicts/crisis events we have gone through, namely 1922, 1974 & 1996.