Simitis: Turkey-Greece war would last 2 hours

[Alienoz_TR]

Come to western Arabia. Half of our accent is Turkce Kardis. xD

It is either kardash or kardesh, wrong spelling. Azeri says Gardash.

 

[Gaara]

The Muslims from eastern Europe were either forced to leave Europe or they must have migrated to Anatolia voluntarily because unlike other Asian and African countries East Europe was not Muslim. You are trying to twist the history to justify you flawed argument.

No, they did not voluntarily migrate from Eastern Europe to Anatolia. They were either forced by Russia, other Slavic countries and other countries who were forced to believe they were Slavic (e.g. Bulgaria) or they thought it would have been very hard to live in Eastern Europe without the protection of Ottomans. (And today we see they were absolutely right because of Bosnian massacres in the 90s)

I am not trying to twist the history. The number of the Turks living in Balkans and the number of the Turks living in other Asian and African countries can NOT even be compared to each other at that times. And believe me, East Europe WAS Muslim and it WAS governed with Sharia when Ottomans were there.

---------- Post added at 02:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------

Come to western Arabia. Half of our accent is Turkce Kardis. xD

I will be very glad to do that. Will you host me?

 

[Mosamania]

It is either kardash or kardesh, wrong spelling. Azeri says Gardash.

I don't have a Turkish keyboard but it was suppose to be with the dot under the S for the "Sha" sound.

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I will be very glad to do that. Will you host me?

Of course man.

 

[Porus]

Gaara, you deny your past. What do Turk have in common with Greeks? Raki, taverna or what? Nay, I dont visit bars nor drink raki. Besides, Even in western Anatolia life styles were different. Yoruks were riding horses and camel while Greeks were merchants. Ethnic Turks have no common with Greeks.

Our brethren are Azerbaijanis, Iraqi Turkmen, Syrian Turkmens, Bulgarian Turks, Tatars, and to some extent Kurds, Circassians, Albanians, Arabs.

I concur with your opinion. Turks may have invaded and colonized some parts of Eastern Europe but it still doesn't make them European, just like other invaders like Huns and Arabs they were outsiders who, for a brief period of time, "terrorized" Europe but were eventually thrown out of Europe like the previous Asian or African invaders. Nobody mentions the "archives" of Turkey in any kind of discussion in Europe. Turkey is a nonentity in any kind of discourse regarding the political or military history of Europe, apart from the siege of Vienna of course which is mentioned once a year in a TV documentary. When it comes to the history of Europe I see these guys talking about the ancient Greek or Roman civilizations. I see them talking about the medieval Europe (holy roman empire, Franks, Charlemagne, 100 years war etc.), I see them talking abut the Renaissance and in none of these discussion Turkey is ever mentioned in the slightest way. Turkey is not even a western country. I have met thousands of Turks in my life and I found these friendly people more oriental than occidental - their food, habits, culture, mentality, way of life everything is more Asian than European. Even as a Pakistani my chances of assimilation among Turks are far higher than that of a Greek or Bulgarian, forget the French, German, Scandinavian, Italian or English they are completely different people. This is just my observation,you guys have every right to disagree with my point of view though.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

I don't have a Turkish keyboard but it was suppose to be with the dot under the S for the "Sha" sound.

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Of course man.

I am writing from iPad, I don't have sha either.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

The important question one must ask is: what makes a nation? The color of skin? Religion? Culture? Language? etc.

When one looks at Turkish influence in Europe and Middle East it is undeniable that we had at least as much in common with the Arabs as we had with Europe (especially Balkans). The Ottoman spread religion into Europe and today many Balkan countries are Muslim thanks to the Ottoman. The reason we are ethnically close to Balkan is because today the majority of Turks (around 98 percent) are Anatolian with a mixture from Arab and European descent. But genetics counts very little in my honest opinion. Returning to what makes a nation is therefore Language, Religion and Culture. These three are much more important than our skin color. I am sure most Turks agree with that.

 

[Gold1010]

Turkey are defently western in a political way.

The land of Turkey(anatolia) has been in european history since the seige of troy.And although they might not be of been called turks then surely a lot of turks today are descendants of the peoples who lived there thousands of years ago.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Zulkarneyn you have some points.

Well there are some ethnic Turks not pure blood but remain somewhat culturally closer to Central Asia.

Then some half Turk half European blood Citizen living in west while some half Turk half Middleastern blood citizens living in the east.

By economically, there are people living in Swiss standards and there are people living in Afghanistan standards. There is not a single body Turkey. It is mixed up so badly which gives me headaches.

 

[amalakas]

First of all I can see there is disagreement between you, that should tell you a lot.

Second.

there are two thins one can look at here.

1 - See religion as the common element between people
2 - See culture as the common element between people

For example in this forum, most members from Pakistan will support and align with turkish members.
when I look at the posts, I can only find religion as the factor behind this.

As far as I know, (I haven't travelled to the depths of Anatolia) Mediterranean turks have nothing in common with Pakistanis both racially and culturally.

If you remove religion from the equation, Mediterranean turks and Greeks are much closer together culturally. Pretty much honour similar family values, have common professions, arts, and every day cultures. Similar to southern italians too.

Why would I as an intelligent educated person bring religion into the equation? Just because someone is christian does not make him automatically my brother in the same way you muslims seem to think.

Even so at the end of the day, Turkish muslims are much different to other muslims. At least the ones I met and saw.

And this is the point that holds Turkey back in its european integration. Muslims like to think that Europeans are a Christian only club.

Not really. The reality is that they are a money only club. Europeans are very far removed from religion. They are concerned that Islam by definition has political extensions. something that fundamentally is against democracy.

you can't have it both ways.

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

Turkey are defently western in a political way.

The land of Turkey(anatolia) has been in european history since the seige of troy.And although they might not be of been called turks then surely a lot of turks today are descendants of the peoples who lived there thousands of years ago.

No they weren't turks, nor did turks arrive there until much later. The true racial background of the turkish population is a different story altogether. But that is off topic.

 

[Gold1010]

First of all I can see there is disagreement between you, that should tell you a lot.

Second.

there are two thins one can look at here.

1 - See religion as the common element between people
2 - See culture as the common element between people

For example in this forum, most members from Pakistan will support and align with turkish members.
when I look at the posts, I can only find religion as the factor behind this.

As far as I know, (I haven't travelled to the depths of Anatolia) Mediterranean turks have nothing in common with Pakistanis both racially and culturally.

If you remove religion from the equation, Mediterranean turks and Greeks are much closer together culturally. Pretty much honour similar family values, have common professions, arts, and every day cultures. Similar to southern italians too.

Why would I as an intelligent educated person bring religion into the equation? Just because someone is christian does not make him automatically my brother in the same way you muslims seem to think.

Even so at the end of the day, Turkish muslims are much different to other muslims. At least the ones I met and saw.

And this is the point that holds Turkey back in its european integration. Muslims like to think that Europeans are a Christian only club.

Not really. The reality is that they are a money only club. Europeans are very far removed from religion. They are concerned that Islam by definition has political extensions. something that fundamentally is against democracy.

you can't have it both ways.

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------




No they weren't turks, nor did turks arrive there until much later. The true racial background of the turkish population is a different story altogether. But that is off topic.

I no that they wernt ethnic turks with the language etc but surely they were descendants of some modern turks.

 

[Porus]

Turkey are defently western in a political way.

The land of Turkey(anatolia) has been in european history since the seige of troy.And although they might not be of been called turks then surely a lot of turks today are descendants of the peoples who lived there thousands of years ago.

Those people were Greek who had settled in Asia Minor. Some Greek may have converted to Islam and still living in Turkey but the most of them have migrated to Greece or other European country.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

@amalakas,

What makes Pakistan closer to Turkey is: their contribution to our independence war. They supported us, our ancestors taught us to respect South Asian Muslims for their help.

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I no that they wernt ethnic turks with the language etc but surely they were descendants of some modern turks.

That's why Christian missionaires are invading Turkey to make Turks Christian. I ll defend my country saying I am not Anatolian.

 

[amalakas]

@amalakas,

What makes Pakistan closer to Turkey is: their contribution to our independence war. They supported us, our ancestors taught us to respect South Asian Muslims for their help.

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------



That's why Christian missionaires are invading Turkey to make Turks Christian. I ll defend my country saying I am not Anatolian.

I am sorry you lost me there. What do you mean?

 

[Zulkarneyn]

First of all I can see there is disagreement between you, that should tell you a lot.

Second.

there are two thins one can look at here.

1 - See religion as the common element between people
2 - See culture as the common element between people

For example in this forum, most members from Pakistan will support and align with turkish members.
when I look at the posts, I can only find religion as the factor behind this.

As far as I know, (I haven't travelled to the depths of Anatolia) Mediterranean turks have nothing in common with Pakistanis both racially and culturally.

If you remove religion from the equation, Mediterranean turks and Greeks are much closer together culturally. Pretty much honour similar family values, have common professions, arts, and every day cultures. Similar to southern italians too.

Why would I as an intelligent educated person bring religion into the equation? Just because someone is christian does not make him automatically my brother in the same way you muslims seem to think.

Even so at the end of the day, Turkish muslims are much different to other muslims. At least the ones I met and saw.

And this is the point that holds Turkey back in its european integration. Muslims like to think that Europeans are a Christian only club.

Not really. The reality is that they are a money only club. Europeans are very far removed from religion. They are concerned that Islam by definition has political extensions. something that fundamentally is against democracy.

you can't have it both ways.

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------




No they weren't turks, nor did turks arrive there until much later. The true racial background of the turkish population is a different story altogether. But that is off topic.

You don't have to be a professor to see that Anatolian people today are obviously not descendant from Central Asia or the Altai mountains. It is pretty obvious that we as Turks are primarily Anatolian. I personally cannot see any difference between a Central Anatolian (i am from Kayseri), Georgian, Armenian, Greek and even Italians. Turkish nationalists love to brag about how "we" came from Central Asia and conquered Anatolia, Arabic lands and European lands. But in reality Anatolian people converted very early into Islam and became a part of the Ottoman Empire.

 

[amalakas]

Those people were Greek who had settled in Asia Minor. Some Greek may have converted to Islam and still living in Turkey but the most of them have migrated to Greece or other European country.

If you run a DNA test, most modern day turks will be really surprised with the results. But as someone else mentioned, it is not race that makes you what you are, it is culture,religion, values.

Although I would find it funny if I was in blood a native american and I was hating native americans. Kind of ironic don't you think?

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

You don't have to be a professor to see that Anatolian people today are obviously not descendant from Central Asia or the Altai mountains. It is pretty obvious that we as Turks are primarily Anatolian. I personally cannot see any difference between a Central Anatolian (i am from Kayseri), Georgian, Armenian, Greek and even Italians. Turkish nationalists love to brag about how "we" came from Central Asia and conquered Anatolia, Arabic lands and European lands. But in reality Anatolian people converted very early into Islam and became a part of the Ottoman Empire.

I think that is closer to the truth too, but as you said, I am not an anthropologist.