Simitis: Turkey-Greece war would last 2 hours

[amalakas]

I couldn't find it. Do you mind giving me its link?

It is a long search, it is hard searching from my phone. I found this http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/90735-turkish-meko-class-enters-greek-waters.html

it is not the one I meant, but it is good enough.

I'll keep looking for the older one

 

[RayKalm]

I personally see Turkey as a rising power. Only things I dislike about Turkey, is it's pro-western stance, position in NATO, and etc. But I do not see it as a rising Islamic power, since the state is not Islamic.

Mind you, I'm not defending my country as not pro-western either.

Turkey will demolish Greece in 2-3 days max in an all out war.

There was a poll on 'do you like America' in a lot of countries, Turkey ranked the highest in hating America per capita, Pakistan was second. Interestingly, both our countries border Iraq and Afghanistan respectively.

 

[TrMhMt]

self delete ...

 

[Gaara]

I personally see Turkey as a rising power. Only things I dislike about Turkey, is it's pro-western stance, position in NATO, and etc. But I do not see it as a rising Islamic power, since the state is not Islamic.

Turkey is not a PRO-western state. Turkey IS a western state. Whether some of the western countries (such as Germany and France) accepts it or not, Turkey IS a western state. The history of west which is written without the archives of Turkey will be very limited, inadequate and useless.

Turkey is a secular democracy. Although we are not a perfect example of it, we will keep our efforts to be more and more democtratic every day. Turkey is NOT an islamic country and will NEVER be one. Although I am one of the religious and conservative people in Turkey, I will support Turkey to stay as a secular democracy rather than an islamic democracy. Our muslim brothers in other countries should consider Turkey as a western power who understands your position better because of her mutual history with other muslim countries.

 

[amalakas]

Turkey is not a PRO-western state. Turkey IS a western state. Whether some of the western countries (such as Germany and France) accepts it or not, Turkey IS a western state. The history of west which is written without the archives of Turkey will be very limited, inadequate and useless.

Turkey is a secular democracy. Although we are not a perfect example of it, we will keep our efforts to be more and more democtratic every day. Turkey is NOT an islamic country and will NEVER be one. Although I am one of the religious and conservative people in Turkey, I will support Turkey to stay as a secular democracy rather than an islamic democracy. Our muslim brothers in other countries should consider Turkey as a western power who understands your position better because of her mutual history with other muslim countries.

2 things

first .. "The history of west which is written without the archives of Turkey will be very limited, inadequate and useless. "

very arrogant and inaccurate.

second, Turkey has more in common with Greece and Europe than with any other muslim country in the world. In fact the only weird thing is NOT why Turkey seeks the west, the only weird thing is that Turkey is a muslim country.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

2 things

first .. "The history of west which is written without the archives of Turkey will be very limited, inadequate and useless. "

very arrogant and inaccurate.

second, Turkey has more in common with Greece and Europe than with any other muslim country in the world. In fact the only weird thing is NOT why Turkey seeks the west, the only weird thing is that Turkey is a muslim country.

Aren't Albania and Bosnia Muslim countries too ?

 

[amalakas]

Aren't Albania and Bosnia Muslim countries too ?

Yes they are. Bosnia is a special case. Albania is .................................. no comment.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Yes they are. Bosnia is a special case. Albania is .................................. no comment.

Why, no comment? What you wanted to say about Albania? I wanna hear your views.. I am curious.. I don't know much about that region...

 

[what]

Albania or let's say Albanians have a very bad reputation all over Europe, maybe he meant that.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

2 things

second, Turkey has more in common with Greece and Europe than with any other muslim country in the world. In fact the only weird thing is NOT why Turkey seeks the west, the only weird thing is that Turkey is a muslim country.

What proof do you have that Turkey has more in common with Greece?

I don't know what other Turks claim, but I am more Asian than European.

Thirdly, as you claim Turks being Muslim is weird thing. Wait, even if we give up being Muslim, we rather become Shaman rather than Christian. My ancestors would turn in grave by seeing their descendants as Christians.

When Turks seeks west, it is purely emotional. When I say emotional, it is all about material.

 

[silko]

Why, no comment? What you wanted to say about Albania? I wanna hear your views.. I am curious.. I don't know much about that region...

pretty much a country that still strugles with communism, corruption, disputes etc...

Albanian mafias

 

[Gaara]

2 things

first .. "The history of west which is written without the archives of Turkey will be very limited, inadequate and useless. "

very arrogant and inaccurate.

second, Turkey has more in common with Greece and Europe than with any other muslim country in the world. In fact the only weird thing is NOT why Turkey seeks the west, the only weird thing is that Turkey is a muslim country.

It might be very arrogant but I totaly believe it is accurate. Same thing can, of course, be said for the histories of Greece, Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany and Russia. Pushing Turkey away from Europe is pointless and useless because Turkey is already European and a part of European history for hundreds of years. This is a fact, no historian with a self esteem can deny that.

Ottoman's main lands were Western Anatolia and Balkans, not the middle eastern parts of the empire. (That's why millions of Turkish immigrants from Balkans to modern Turkey created a huge trauma in Turkish public) Iraq, Syria, Hijaz, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia were never really Ottomans, these regions were just parts of the empire whose governors were appointed by Istanbul but free in their internal affairs. Turkish culture did not really affected these regions as you can see in the example of Egypt and Saudi Arabia. (Some parts of modern Turkey, especially Urfa, Mardin, Hatay, Antep and Kilis, were more Arabised than these parts of the empire were Turkified.)

It is very normal that we have more in common with Greece and Europe than other muslim countries. Because we have been in Europe for at least half thousand years and main turkish living parts of the empire was Western Anatolia and Balkans as I said above. We had wars with European countries. We lived together with European nations. We were affected by European belief systems, just like we affected European belief systems. Today Islam exists in Europe not becuase of Arabic Andalus State in Iberia or because of Iranian elements, it exists becuase of Turks. And it will exist as long as we are part of Europe. That's the main reason why some European countries are having trouble to accept Turkey in EU although Turkey is ALREADY European. They want Europe to stay as a Christian Union but they can't find valid points to present Turkish and international public in order to anchor Turkey, a significant economic power today and a possible more powerful country in the future because of her potential.

In Europe, muslim has meant Turk and Turk has meant muslim for almost half thousand years. Many European countries have not seen other muslims rather than Turks. Our Islamism (being Muslims) is NOT open for a debate just like we NEVER make your being Orthodox Christian a point at issue.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Gaara, you deny your past. What do Turk have in common with Greeks? Raki, taverna or what? Nay, I dont visit bars nor drink raki. Besides, Even in western Anatolia life styles were different. Yoruks were riding horses and camel while Greeks were merchants. Ethnic Turks have no common with Greeks.

Our brethren are Azerbaijanis, Iraqi Turkmen, Syrian Turkmens, Bulgarian Turks, Tatars, and to some extent Kurds, Circassians, Albanians, Arabs.

 

[Porus]

It might be very arrogant but I totaly believe it is accurate. Same thing can, of course, be said for the histories of Greece, Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany and Russia. Pushing Turkey away from Europe is pointless and useless because Turkey is already European and a part of European history for hundreds of years. This is a fact, no historian with a self esteem can deny that.

Ottoman's main lands were Western Anatolia and Balkans, not the middle eastern parts of the empire. (That's why millions of Turkish immigrants from Balkans to modern Turkey created a huge trauma in Turkish public) Iraq, Syria, Hijaz, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Tunisia were never really Ottomans, these regions were just parts of the empire whose governors were appointed by Istanbul but free in their internal affairs. Turkish culture did not really affected these regions as you can see in the example of Egypt and Saudi Arabia. (Some parts of modern Turkey, especially Urfa, Mardin, Hatay, Antep and Kilis, were more Arabised than these parts of the empire were Turkified.)

The Muslims from eastern Europe were either forced to leave Europe or they must have migrated to Anatolia voluntarily because unlike other Asian and African countries East Europe was not Muslim. You are trying to twist the history to justify you flawed argument.

 

[Mosamania]

Turkish culture did not really affected these regions as you can see in the example of Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Come to western Arabia. Half of our accent is Turkce Kardis. xD