Silent Buildup

[Rank]

[ A silent buildup ]

What are the most powerful offensive conventional capabilities Pakistan has against India at the moment? “Airforce and the Short-Range Strategic weapons” (You can modify and use TNWs as a Non-WMD as well). Do India’s AD (in paralysis) and ABM/AMS systems have the capability to handle full-spectrum of air attacks? NO! IA/IAF is incapable to deter PAF in the case of LIC or even HIC at this point. The only credible deterrence India has against Pakistan is the Naval front. On 27 Feb, PAF conducted a successful offensive raid, targeted IA military installations and shot-down IAF fighters evidently maintaining its superiority and hegemony over the IAF including IA in a real combat theatre. That episode left an unbearable mark over the Indian military establishment. India factually lost its deterrence against the 1/4 adversary even according to India's own defense experts like Pravin Sawhney, Gen Bakshi and many.

Now, what Mr Bipin and Co are thinking?

Any miscalculated adventure will lead the entire Indian defense apparatus into suicide mode where they will face-off a formidable force that is ready for the final hunt. A force combination of aggressive Airforce, Special Combat Units (SSWs+SSGs), Anti armor Gunship formation will literally ****-up IA/IAF in case if they’re not guarded properly. How and why? Doesn’t India have potential or a similar competence or better? that's not the question in case of conflict at the moment, Pakistan military has no chance to survive in the case of a 5-dimensional full spectrum battlespace attack. The war btw both has no degradation curves.

So what option Pak military has or how they can respond or make-sure its survival? obviously maximum damage with coordination, correlation of the entire force in the first attack. The fact, the second strike from India may not leave Pakistan military to strike back as strong as the first one. India has the quantitive edge but again that edge existed after the parliament attack, Uri, Mumbai attacks etc. The result so far non. Indian mil estb. doesn't produce any effective results on- ground rather just playing with the internal narrative sometime with the fake surgical strikes.However, India has the capability to hit hard in the long run. In the case of prolonging (war extends into weeks or a month), Pakistan might lose its warfighting capability and then the scenario might vector the war-dynamics towards non-conventional. So the intensity and intention of the Pakistani military is more clear now the question, is that the opposition is capable to handle?

In the last confrontation, PA/PAF/PN was ready for the HIC, India was surprised and stay low the reason they weren’t expected nor ready. The gape is beyond IA/IAF imagination (admitted by many), especially in today’s modern warfare. The game of the quantity is over.
The non-conventional weapons (WMD) or Nuclear weapons are completely a different ball game. India or Pakistan, both doesn’t have any capability against the nuclear fall-out. Nor anyone has the capability to neutralized before launch, IMO, that's more like a ubiquitous system that can work independently anytime and from anywhere.

People of both sides might not aware of what is happening. Pakistan and India both tested its nuclear strategic force, battle awareness, joint military offensive capabilities, low-high operational capabilities in offensive paradigm, air and ground with special force coordinations.... very silently ... without making a noise.

PS: Because some of the respected fellows have raised the question of "reinforcement of IA/IAF because of its size". I am ignoring this point because it's understood. The scenario which I'm trying to create is, does India have the capability to confront a force that will use its full spectrum of the military in its first attack? Why I assume this simply because Pakistan's military may not continue its war-fighting capability in the long run (if war extended into weeks or month). So PA/PAF will make sure that the first attack at least (after the offensive initiated by India or become an aggressor), the frequency should be enough to deter India. So within this state of mind, Do India's defense apparatus have the capability to handle?


@MastanKhan @Horus @graphican @Windjammer @Irfan Baloch @TOPGUN @WebMaster @The Accountant @The Eagle @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[YeBeWarned]

Honestly we'd be fools if we are caught unguarded now, everyone knows India is up for something , They literally issue direct threats to Attack Pakistan to take AJK .. I hope we are well prepared and ready for a 7-10 days long conflict/war .

 

[MastanKhan]

What are the most powerful offensive conventional capabilities Pakistan has against India at the moment? “Airforce and the Short-Range Strategic weapons” (Non-WMD). Do India’s AD and ABM/AMS systems have the capability to handle full-spectrum of air attacks? NO! IA/IAF is incapable to deter PAF in the case of LIC or even HIC at this point. The only credible deterrence India has against Pakistan is a Naval front. On 27 Feb, PAF conducted a successful offensive raid, targetted IA military installations and shot-down IAF fighters evidently maintained its superiority and hegemony over the IAF including IA in a real combat theatre. That episode left an unbearable mark over the Indian military establishment. India factually lost its deterrence against the 1/4 advisory even according to India's own defense experts like Pravin Sohney, Gen Bakshi and many.

Now, what Mr Bipin and Co are thinking?

Any miscalculated adventure will lead the entire Indian defense apparatus into suicide mode where they gonna face a force that is ready for the final hunt. A force combination of aggressive Airforce, Special Combat Units (SSWs+SSGs), Anti armor Gunship formation will literally fucked-up IA/IAF in case of conflict. How and why? isn't India have potential or a similar competence or better? that's not the question in case of conflict at the moment, Pakistan military has no chance to survive in the case of a 5-dimensional full spectrum battlespace attack. The war in btw both has no degradation curves. So what option Pak military has or how they can respond or make-sure its survival? obviously maximum damage with coordination, correlation of the entire force in the first attack. The fact is the second strike from India might not leave Pakistan military to strike back strongly as first. That could be the point from where a battle may vector war-dynamics towards non-conventional. So intensity and intention are clear from Pakistani military now the question, is that the opposition is capable to handle?

In the last confrontation, PA/PAF/PN was ready for the HIC back in Feb, India was surprised and stay low the reason they weren’t expected nor ready. The gape is beyond IA/IAF imagination (admitted by many), especially in today’s modern warfare. The game of the quantity is over.

The non-conventional weapons (WMD) or Nuclear weapons are completely a different ball game. India or Pakistan, both doesn’t have any capability against the nuclear fall-out. Nor anyone has the capability to neutralized before launch, IMO, that's more like a ubiquitous system that can work independently anytime and from anywhere.

People of both sides might not aware of what is happening. Pakistan and India both tested its nuclear strategic force, battle awareness, joint military offensive capabilities, low-high operational capabilities in offensive paradigm, air and ground with special force coordinations.... very silently ... without making a noise.

This is not a normal routine configuration nor practice....

@MastanKhan @Horus @graphican @Windjammer @Irfan Baloch @TOPGUN @WebMaster @The Accountant @The Eagle

Hi,

These are indeed very concerning times for the region---.

India is going to open up a new front or multiple fronts at that---that is for sure---. Kashmir is going to get snowed in soon---. So that flank if it stays secure would help india in other locations---.

27th did nothing to india other than embarrass it in front of the world---. Paf told the IAF what its shortcoming were and they will thank Paf by showing them that they have taken care of those short comings---.

That show of power by the Paf was a Tactical blunder and disasterous---all the tactical information that was released---that was totally outrageous---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The India I know would back off now unless they are 200% assured of all out guaranteed support (Intelligence, diplomatic, planning, armaments, logistics, on-site supervision and direction etc.) on writing from the USA like the way they got from the USSR in 1971 (Soviet generals were in Delhi during the final onslaught into the East Pak)...

Now, that would definitely put China into the equation with much higher parameters without the direct Chinese involvement! Let’s see how it pans out...

The good news is President Trump with his CEO instinct!!! He can fire the likes of Bolton etc. without the blink of an eye!! And, he asks for 10 to 100 times in ROI, and that too in advance! And, he’s a white supremest!! They don’t fight for the niggers; niggers fight for them....

Pak’s job is to exponentially increase the “conjectures” for the Indians do believe in it!!! A deep strike capability to hit Bombay (RSS + Parsi + financial HQ), Madras (southern Brahmins with brains), Bangalore/Hyderabad (outsourced tech hub) etc. is a great plus!! Gujrat (read Ambanis etc.) needs to understand they’re the first to go - aka Sultan Mahmut style....

 

[Caprxl]

.. I hope we are well prepared and ready for a 7-10 days long conflict/war

Hi , well I have some question in my mind brother after reading your post,

1)I am interested in knowing how you reached these numbers ?
2)Also 7-10 days you concluded from whose standing point ? Pakistan or India?
If it's Indian , then it hints of achieving their goals based upon cold start , if it's Pakistan's 7-10 days, do discuss what in your opinion we would have set our goals and how much we can achieve them?
3)Also in Pakistan's case, do you think there is a place in which we would be aggressors? ? ( though I know WE have worked hard to build our image as non aggressors since Feb, but what if we came to know that shit is about to hit the fan and we take advantage by having the first strike, maybe our Cold Start )

All above questions / discussion is under Conventional arms only .

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi , well I have some question in my mind brother after reading your post,

1)I am interested in knowing how you reached these numbers ?
2)Also 7-10 days you concluded from whose standing point ? Pakistan or India?
If it's Indian , then it hints of achieving their goals based upon cold start , if it's Pakistan's 7-10 days, do discuss what in your opinion we would have set our goals and how much we can achieve them?
3)Also in Pakistan's case, do you think there is a place in which we would be aggressors? ? ( though I know WE have worked hard to build our image as non aggressors since Feb, but what if we came to know that shit is about to hit the fan and we take advantage by having the first strike, maybe our Cold Start )

All above questions / discussion is under Conventional arms only .

I love “surprises” without “thinking to retaliate”....

 

[Signalian]

What are the most powerful offensive conventional capabilities Pakistan has against India at the moment? “Airforce and the Short-Range Strategic weapons” (Non-WMD). Do India’s AD and ABM/AMS systems have the capability to handle full-spectrum of air attacks? NO! IA/IAF is incapable to deter PAF in the case of LIC or even HIC at this point. The only credible deterrence India has against Pakistan is a Naval front. On 27 Feb, PAF conducted a successful offensive raid, targetted IA military installations and shot-down IAF fighters evidently maintained its superiority and hegemony over the IAF including IA in a real combat theatre. That episode left an unbearable mark over the Indian military establishment. India factually lost its deterrence against the 1/4 advisory even according to India's own defense experts like Pravin Sohney, Gen Bakshi and many.

Now, what Mr Bipin and Co are thinking?

Any miscalculated adventure will lead the entire Indian defense apparatus into suicide mode where they gonna face a force that is ready for the final hunt. A force combination of aggressive Airforce, Special Combat Units (SSWs+SSGs), Anti armor Gunship formation will literally fucked-up IA/IAF in case of conflict. How and why? isn't India have potential or a similar competence or better? that's not the question in case of conflict at the moment, Pakistan military has no chance to survive in the case of a 5-dimensional full spectrum battlespace attack. The war in btw both has no degradation curves. So what option Pak military has or how they can respond or make-sure its survival? obviously maximum damage with coordination, correlation of the entire force in the first attack. The fact is the second strike from India might not leave Pakistan military to strike back strongly as first. That could be the point from where a battle may vector war-dynamics towards non-conventional. So intensity and intention are clear from Pakistani military now the question, is that the opposition is capable to handle?

In the last confrontation, PA/PAF/PN was ready for the HIC back in Feb, India was surprised and stay low the reason they weren’t expected nor ready. The gape is beyond IA/IAF imagination (admitted by many), especially in today’s modern warfare. The game of the quantity is over.

The non-conventional weapons (WMD) or Nuclear weapons are completely a different ball game. India or Pakistan, both doesn’t have any capability against the nuclear fall-out. Nor anyone has the capability to neutralized before launch, IMO, that's more like a ubiquitous system that can work independently anytime and from anywhere.

People of both sides might not aware of what is happening. Pakistan and India both tested its nuclear strategic force, battle awareness, joint military offensive capabilities, low-high operational capabilities in offensive paradigm, air and ground with special force coordinations.... very silently ... without making a noise.

This is not a normal routine configuration nor practice....

@MastanKhan @Horus @graphican @Windjammer @Irfan Baloch @TOPGUN @WebMaster @The Accountant @The Eagle

Do you understand India, Indian Govt and Indian Military ?

If we start with 2000's.
2001- parliament attack - 2001/2 military stand off - conventional ground forces reaching borders. no outcome.
2008 - Mumbai attacks, no outcome.
2016 - Uri attack, the story of a surgical strike using Indian SF.
2019 - Pulwama Attack - Airforces conduct strikes
2019 - Indian sub detected near Pakistani waters.

Indian Military has pitted all its conventional forces against Pakistan in past 20 years. Army, Special Forces, Air Force, Navy - Result ?

 

[Rank]

The India I know would back off now unless they are 200% assured of all out guaranteed support (Intelligence, diplomatic, planning, armaments, logistics, on-site supervision and direction etc.) on writing from the USA like the way they got from the USSR in 1971 (Soviet generals were in Delhi during the final onslaught into the East Pak)...

Now, that would definitely put China into the equation with much higher parameters without the direct Chinese involvement! Let’s see how it pans out...

The good news is President Trump with his CEO instinct!!! He can fire the likes of Bolton etc. without the blink of an eye!! And, he asks for 10 to 100 times in ROI, and that too in advance...

Pak’s job is to exponentially increase the “conjectures” for the Indians do believe in it!!! A deep strike capability to hit Bombay (RSS + Parsi + financial HQ), Madras (southern Brahmins with brains), Bangalore/Hyderabad (outsourced tech hub) etc. is a great plus!! Gujrat (read Ambanis etc.) needs to understand they’re the first to go - aka Sultan Mahmut style....

thats forsure in the target range

 

[Caprxl]

I love “surprises” without “thinking to retaliate”....

Hope we will have more of em when the need comes. InShaAllah

 

[Rank]

Do you understand India, Indian Govt and Indian Military ?

If we start with 2000's.
2001- parliament attack - 2001/2 military stand off - conventional ground forces reaching borders. no outcome.
2008 - Mumbai attacks, no outcome.
2016 - Uri attack, the story of a surgical strike using Indian SF.
2019 - Pulwama Attack - Airforces conduct strikes
2019 - Indian sub detected near Pakistani waters.

Indian Military has pitted all its conventional forces against Pakistan in past 20 years. Army, Special Forces, Air Force, Navy - Result ?

thats what i am saying the equation of the results remain same. However, the situation is now bit different because of jingoist mind set sitting directly into the Govt + in the military.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hope we will have more of em when the need comes. InShaAllah

Amin Summe Amin...

 

[Rank]

Honestly we'd be fools if we are caught unguarded now, everyone knows India is up for something , They literally issue direct threats to Attack Pakistan to take AJK .. I hope we are well prepared and ready for a 7-10 days long conflict/war .

i disagree with long-war.

Hi,

These are indeed very concerning times for the region---.

India is going to open up a new front or multiple fronts at that---that is for sure---. Kashmir is going to get snowed in soon---. So that flank if it stays secure would help india in other locations---.

27th did nothing to india other than embarrass it in front of the world---. Paf told the IAF what its shortcoming were and they will thank Paf by showing them that they have taken care of those short comings---.

That show of power by the Paf was a Tactical blunder and disasterous---all the tactical information that was released---that was totally outrageous---.

i dont see any tactical information released or leak. That was kind of a Hollywood style more like a Behind the Enemy Line kind of a story in which villain show offensive and later got busted from the hero at the end...

 

[Caprxl]

Indian Military has pitted all its conventional forces against Pakistan in past 20 years.

Hmmmm, so what about the non-conventional ones?? I doubt even Indians are that much dumb to raise the stakes that much , (although we do have example of 27, 28 Feb where they turned to their fire works).

All these conventional forces were pitted in a skirmish like scenarios, most of the time it never went full scale, or did it?? What's your analysis on that?? It will also be testing time for ours as well as theirs.

Also it's been observed this time they have imported Pro-Warlords as their mentors.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

thats what i am saying the equation of the results remain same. However, the situation is now bit different because of jingoist mind set sitting directly into the Govt + in the military.

I think Hindutva is like the US democracy!! It is to be preserved, not to be practiced against Pak...

 

[YeBeWarned]

Hi , well I have some question in my mind brother after reading your post,

1)I am interested in knowing how you reached these numbers ?
2)Also 7-10 days you concluded from whose standing point ? Pakistan or India?
If it's Indian , then it hints of achieving their goals based upon cold start , if it's Pakistan's 7-10 days, do discuss what in your opinion we would have set our goals and how much we can achieve them?
3)Also in Pakistan's case, do you think there is a place in which we would be aggressors? ? ( though I know WE have worked hard to build our image as non aggressors since Feb, but what if we came to know that shit is about to hit the fan and we take advantage by having the first strike, maybe our Cold Start )

All above questions / discussion is under Conventional arms only .

Its a rough estimate from the day both Countries mobilize its troops to the day when all hell break loose .

1) Numbers are subjective, so What i understand that about PA that we have roughly 7-10 days worth of Ammunition in case of a full scale war with India .

2) Both , cause in 7-10 days war will be close to a conclusion , either its in our favor or India's , whoever think its losing will bring the WMD's in theater than the world will intervene to stop before we both go nuclear .

As for setting up Goals, I think @Signalian can explain far better than i could . But let me try a little bit for the sake of it .

For India There will be 3 Major objectives ..

1) Capturing the AJK , since they change the status of J&K they are very vocal about Attack AJK and take back the other half Kashmir which in their Mindset belongs to India .
Now I can be blunt but don't take my words of a arrogant person but India can never get hold of AJK , even if the Army retreat the people resolve and Will to fight is just something that will increase the human cost of this occupation , PA can easily open and attack AJK from Various fronts .

2) Destroying the so called Terrorist launch pads, Now there are no such thing so IA will eventually attack some Mosques and Madarsas operating and brand any bearded guy as Terrorist ,they can try do it from various means Like Missile Strikes , Commando teams , and Air strikes but in case of any of these methods are used PA will response hence the conflict will not remain limited .

3) Eliminating PA and destroying their Infrastructure , Now As soon as both armies goes in full war they will unleash everything possible in their arsenal , For India if their initial push failed to bring Desired results for them they might than change strategy to do as much damage as possible to PA infrastructure so it will take years to rebuild it while India can hatch another plan to attack .

For Pakistan there will be Few Objectives as well ..

1) Capturing J&K , Now this is tricky it can't be done unless everything works in our favor , for us we have to be lucky all the time, for our enemy they have to be lucky just once, cause they already hold J&K in case of failure they can keep the J&K , go to UN and ask for a cease fire or Threat Pakistan with nukes ( Now they don't have No First use policy ) and the world will force both countries to stop the war and negotiate , and we all know how it turn out for us .

2) Capturing major Heights and Valley's , If PA initial push didn't goes as planned, we can dug into the valley's and construct bunkers on Ridges and mountain tops, Kargil might be a poorly planned operation but it teaches us one thing that one guy with a well placed MG can hold hundreds of troops in their steps . Pakistan can capture some important strategic and dominating positions to threat IA supply lines/routes . We can Hit their Communication Centers , C&C , Bridges , Roads and Highways to slow their reinforcements . But I believe it can be done more effectively via Kashmiri Fighters rising up against the IA , or dropping the SSG/SSW behind the enemy lines to hide and Ambush IA convoys etc .

3) Weak IA forces in J&K, This tactic is as same as IA 3rd objectives against us, so if PA is failing to get its desired results and War seems to be in its conclusive ends, than we can Push and do as much damage as possible to IA infrastructure so we can than finally let Kashmiri's take the initiative to take on IA .

Your 3rd Point..

3) Well Yes Pakistan can be the Aggressors in fact a lot of members here actually wanted Pakistan to launch an offensive on India, but what they don't understand that IA is pretty well dug in, they have Positions where they can stop us in our tracks . They can keep us busy while reinforcements comes in, or they go into UN for a possible cease Fire, or they open the IB . In all the above Situations India will be seems as Victors cause they will say Pakistan Attack us to take Kashmir and failed to do so .. I don't want Pakistan to again win on Ground but lose on table ( Ref to Kargil ) . Let them be the aggressors, so we can first Stop their Push, concentrate our attack on their weak position, Strike hard and push as deep as Sri nagar , Only that along with Kashmiri's reeving PA as liberators and supporting them can bring J&K to Pakistan or at least force India to come to negotiating table .

PS. Anyone can correct me or add anything in my post if they want to ..

i disagree with long-war.

Can you elaborate a little bit more on Long war ? I consider a week long war to be pretty standard .