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Siachen dispute: India and Pakistan’s glacial fight

somnath

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On 13 April 1984, Indian troops snatched control of the Siachen glacier in northern Kashmir, narrowly beating Pakistan.

Thirty years later, the two sides remain locked in a standoff, but the Indian army mountaineer who inspired the operation says his country must hang on whatever the cost.

Virtually hidden from public view, the world's highest conflict is moving into its fourth decade.

The struggle between India and Pakistan over the Siachen glacier has even spawned a new term: "oropolitics", or mountaineering with a political goal.

High-altitude war
Derived from the Greek for mountain, Indian army colonel Narendra Kumar can justly claim to be its modern father, because his pioneering explorations paved the way for India to take the glacier in early 1984.

But what started as a battle with crampons and climbing rope has turned into high-altitude trench warfare, with the two rival armies frozen - often literally - in pretty much the same positions as 30 years ago.

The vast majority of the estimated 2,700 Indian and Pakistani troop deaths have not been due to combat but avalanches, exposure and altitude sickness caused by the thin, oxygen-depleted air.

"It's been a shocking waste of men and money", says a former senior Indian army officer and Siachen veteran.

"A struggle of two bald men over a comb" is the verdict of Stephen Cohen, a US specialist on South Asia, dismissing the Siachen as "not militarily important".

This would perhaps be comforting if the two combatants did not both have nuclear weapons.

Surrounded by photographs and memorabilia of his climbing exploits, Col Kumar, now in his 80s, says the struggle was critical to preventing Pakistani encroachment into northern Kashmir.

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As with so many long-running conflicts, it began with an undefined border.

In the late-1970s, a German mountaineer showed Col Kumar a US-drawn map of northern Kashmir marking the Indian-Pakistan ceasefire line much further to the east than he expected. It appeared the Americans had cartographically ceded a large chunk of the eastern Karakoram to Pakistan, including the Siachen glacier.

"I bought the German's map and sent it straight to the director general of military operations," says Col Kumar, then in charge of the Indian army's mountain warfare school. "I said I would organise an expedition to the area to correct the map!"

But despite several ceasefire agreements India and Pakistan have never officially demarcated the "Line of Control" in the extreme north of Kashmir, including the Siachen. And both sides publish different maps depicting their version of the geography.

With its ally China to the north, Pakistan was first to see the potential for oropolitics in this strategic vacuum.

Throughout the 1970s, it gave permits to foreign mountaineers to climb around the glacier, fostering the impression this was Pakistani territory - until Col Kumar sounded the alarm.

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But when he got permission for a counter-expedition in 1978, it quickly leaked across the border. "As we reached the Siachen, Pakistani helicopters were flying over us," Col Kumar smiled, "and they were firing out coloured smoke."

This and rubbish left by previous climbing teams convinced him the Pakistanis were stealthily taking over.

But at first, he complains, Indian generals would not take him seriously. Then in early 1981, Col Kumar was given the go-ahead to map the entire glacier, all the way to the Chinese border.

This time there were no leaks. And the following year he wrote up his expedition in a mountaineering magazine, in effect staking India's claim.

With the Indian army now clearly involved, the Pakistanis were determined to entrench their claim. They might have succeeded if Indian intelligence had not learned of some interesting shopping in the UK in early 1984.

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"We came to know the Pakistanis were buying lots of specialist mountain clothing in London," grins Col Kumar. A retired Pakistani colonel later admitted they had blundered by using the same store as the Indians.

India immediately despatched troops to the Siachen, beating Pakistan by a week. By then they had already got control of the glacier and the adjacent Saltoro ridge, using Col Kumar's maps. One of the key Indian installations on the Siachen today is named Kumar Base after him.

A Pakistani counter-attack led by a Brig Gen Pervez Musharraf a few years later was one of several that failed to dislodge the Indians. Since a ceasefire deal in 2003, the Pakistanis have given up trying.

But though both sides are now better at coping with the extreme environment, it still claims the lives of dozens of soldiers each year.

Because it occupies the harder-to-supply higher ground, India pays the heaviest financial price, currently estimated to be around $1m (£0.6m) a day.

"With all the money we have spent in Siachen, we could have provided clean water and electricity to half the country," says the former Indian army officer.

Both armies, he says, ensure their "heroic narratives" of the conflict dominate by limiting media access to the Siachen.

Any hints of a thaw, most recently when Pakistan lost 140 soldiers in an avalanche, have always faded away.

The Siachen is just the coldest of several fronts in the frozen conflict over Kashmir, with neither India or Pakistan prepared to take the first step.

"There will be no movement on Siachen until there's movement on everything else," predicts a former senior Indian intelligence officer.

In the meantime, Col Kumar says India should be consolidating its position on the Siachen, by allowing more foreign mountaineers to climb there.

BBC News - Siachen dispute: India and Pakistan’s glacial fight
 
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1mil dollars everyday......:(
we aint rich,,,,,why cant we stop being enemies..
 
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India is willing to withdraw all troops from the Glacier region provided Pakistan does the same and most importantly if Pakistan authenticates the present AGPL, which demarcates the positions currently held by Indian and Pakistani troops, on maps to ensure there is no encroachment by Pakistani troops once the Indians withdraw.

If later the Pakistani troops encroach and occupy the Soltoro Ridge where the Indian troops are deployed presently, after they withdraw, then it would be almost impossible to get it back, seeing the nature of the terrain with posts as high as 22,000 feet!

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However, Pakistan has refused to authenticate the maps insisting that Siachen belongs to Pakistan and not India! As to how they claim this area belongs to Pakistan is surprising and baseless. It never was Pakistan's to begin with.

So, the bottom line to a resolution of the conflict is for Pakistan to authenticate the AGPL. Refusing to do so will result in a status quo that may last forever.

And thus, India cannot be blamed for lack of trying to solve the issue.
 
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I don't know what the solution to all these disputes are now but i would like to recall the 90s when Vajpayee and Nawaz were around. If i'm not mistaken, both sides got very close. India had offered Pakistan to take Muslim majority and restive Kashmir Valley for the price of Pakistan opening up its border to Indian businessmen and accepting Jammu, Ladakh, and Siachin territories as part of India.
 
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I don't know what the solution to all these disputes are now but i would like to recall the 90s when Vajpayee and Nawaz were around. If i'm not mistaken, both sides got very close. India had offered Pakistan to take Muslim majority and restive Kashmir Valley for the price of Pakistan opening up its border to Indian businessmen and accepting Jammu, Ladakh, and Siachin territories as part of India.
Wrong. Vajpayee never agreed to such deal. Only deal on which he was close was with Musharraf and It was more like withdraw maximum troops from Azad Kashmir and Valley from both armies(minimum army personels according to requirements would be still there) and let the Kashmiris govern themselves the way they want(no central govt interference from either side) but troops on LOC would be as it is and key decisions(strategic ones) would still be taken by either side. Its just rough perception about that deal.
 
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Wrong. Vajpayee never agreed to such deal. Only deal on which he was close was with Musharraf and It was more like withdraw maximum troops from Azad Kashmir and Valley from both armies(minimum army personels according to requirements would be still there) and let the Kashmiris govern themselves the way they want(no central govt interference from either side) but troops on LOC would be as it is and key decisions(strategic ones) would still be taken by either side. Its just rough perception about that deal.

Wrong. You forgot Lahore Declaration. That lead both leaders, Nawaz and Vajpayee to discuss solutions.
 
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siachen is ours. We fought and we won. Pakistan should accept it and just move on. So many soldiers have been martyred and millions have been spent and now they want us to vacate!!?? Hell no.
 
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1mil dollars everyday......:(
we aint rich,,,,,why cant we stop being enemies..
It is worth it. It's best if the Indian Army decides what's good for us. The political leadership did not take the initiative for Operation Meghdoot. They know it better than armchair strategists and civilians.

The advantages of Siachen are huge.

i. A balcony overlooking Aksai Chin, Gilgit, Kargil.
ii. Strategic location of the glacier itself

Giving it up means giving it up to Pakistan or China. :coffee: In that case we should consider giving up our country to either of them. Will save billions of dollars.
 
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Wrong. You forgot Lahore Declaration. That lead both leaders, Nawaz and Vajpayee to discuss solutions.
Well thats what I meant. Discussion is one thing and being agree on that is another discussion go on even today but that doesn't mean both countries can agree on that. Vajpayee only agreed to Musharaff's solution but at what extent is not known. Musharraf's deal was more practicle as It was meant to deal Kashmir issues in a phased manner like first withdraw troops then let them govern themselves and free to go to azad kashmir and valley etc without central govt's interference from both side and when everything become normal then talk about area sharing. India never has and never will agree to any such direct/not practical deals like give valley to Pak and take Jammu and Ladakh(Jammu and Ladakh have little to do with the deal just like Baltistan hasn't got to do anything or little with deal).
 
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I don't know what the solution to all these disputes are now but i would like to recall the 90s when Vajpayee and Nawaz were around. If i'm not mistaken, both sides got very close. India had offered Pakistan to take Muslim majority and restive Kashmir Valley for the price of Pakistan opening up its border to Indian businessmen and accepting Jammu, Ladakh, and Siachin territories as part of India.
Yes! There was this solution put forward. But then we have vested interests on both sides who were and are dead against any solution to this vexed problem.
 
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Wrong. You forgot Lahore Declaration. That lead both leaders, Nawaz and Vajpayee to discuss solutions.

Lahore declaration did not have any concrete solutions - it said that both countries would routinely send their reps for meetings and CBM's will be introduced.

The actual movement towards any settlement took place between Musharaf and Vajpayee when Musharaf became the dictator of pakistan. Musharaf proposed the "4 points plan" which was accepted by Vajpayee.

The exact proposal did not get revealed but in general it proposed..

a more relaxed border between both Azad Kashmir and IOK, allowance to let both people intermingle, trade to be intitiated between both Kashmirs. A cooling down period of 25 years after which the situation on the ground will be reviewed.
 
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I don't know what the solution to all these disputes are now but i would like to recall the 90s when Vajpayee and Nawaz were around. If i'm not mistaken, both sides got very close. India had offered Pakistan to take Muslim majority and restive Kashmir Valley for the price of Pakistan opening up its border to Indian businessmen and accepting Jammu, Ladakh, and Siachin territories as part of India.
Had Vajpayee accepted such a deal BJP would have been finished. No Indian leader can even think of handing over a piece of that territory. The agreement proposed troop reduction and greater autonomy for both IAK and PAK
 
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I don't know what the solution to all these disputes are now but i would like to recall the 90s when Vajpayee and Nawaz were around. If i'm not mistaken, both sides got very close. India had offered Pakistan to take Muslim majority and restive Kashmir Valley for the price of Pakistan opening up its border to Indian businessmen and accepting Jammu, Ladakh, and Siachin territories as part of India.

There was never any offer 'to take' Kashmir Valley in exchange of business. If you think there was, please provide credible source to back your claim. If you wish to read the Lahore Declaration...

Lahore Declaration February, 1999
 
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There was never any offer 'to take' Kashmir Valley in exchange of business. If you think there was, please provide credible source to back your claim. If you wish to read the Lahore Declaration...

Lahore Declaration February, 1999

There was a meeting regarding SAARC and it came under discussion between both Prime Ministers. Had you read my post clearly, you would have known why i explicitly used the words ' I could be mistaken'. I don't have to tell you my source. Everyone hears all kinds of rumors, regardless whether they are true or false.
 
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