Shourya hypersonic missile launch successful

[Firemaster]

An Aegis-type ship will be crippled if its radar arrays are rendered inoperable. So what if the ship can move around? The only reason why we have 'sea skimming' missile is to deny the enemy early warning of an attack, not because we want hit the ship broadside. But then because of the flight characteristic, hitting the ship broadside is inevitable, thereby giving the impression that is the goal.

Horizon calculator - radar and visual

Plug in any figure you like and see for yourself. The higher the radar and/or visual horizon, the more time the enemy has to prepare.

You mean none of the missile on board Aegis ship will be operable if Radar arrays are destroyed???

Secondly If the ship can move and reaches back to its owner country after the radar being crippled( with little structural damage), then the ship can be repaired but if it is sunk then making whole new ship will be more troublesome process.
So in my view It is necessary to sink the ship

 

[Kinetic]

Is shourya powered throughout its flight regime, if yes do you have link to corroborate that?

Vasily Zaytsev already replied. That is commonsense. If a missile flies 700 km at 40 km altitude it must have all the way thrust.

 

[King123]

^^^may be thats why most nations stick to smaller less complicated subsonic cruise missiles for naval warfare?
sinking the ship isnt that important.

You are comparing Apple with Orange. There is big difference between Subsonic and Supersonic and Hypersonic.

Who doesn't want speed Mach 6+ ? But it's advance technology and more expensive.

1 Supersonic Brahmos will cost 3 times more than 1 subsonic Nirbhay (yet to operate)

Subsonic are not worth when you have super sonic or Hyper Sonic.

it's like why most of the countries operate F-16 when F-18/F-15 is there ?

 

[Kinetic]

Excellent. Here is something else to consider...

The greater the CEP figure, the more likely that the warhead will an air burst type. The burst altitude differs, of course, but it is not that difficult to reason out why: Explosions, like electricity or anything under pressure, will ALWAYS seek out the path of least resistance. So why do any damage to dirt? Is that your intention? An air burst will 'radiate' the concussive force in all direction and if there are any material propelled by that force, an air burst will make better use of those material than if those fragments were delivered at ground level.

A 500 lbs bomb or 230 kg will produce a fragmentation human lethal radius out to about 30 meters. Against equipment is a different issue but it is reasonable to cut that figure in half where the equipment is rendered either incapable or severe reduction of contributing to the war effort.

The lower CEP figure will reduce the explosive load needed to create the same level of physical damages to both hard and soft targets. That is why the US is moving towards the Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) type. This will also lower the air burst altitude to take maximum effects of the concussive force and fragments.

Here is something about naval warfare that most people do not realize: If a land structure like a building is damaged, the human warfighters and their equipment can move to another structure/location and continue to prosecute the war. But over water, if the ship is damaged, the human warfighters are either immobilized or their contributorship to the war effort is severely curtailed. They are trapped. That is why it is better to cripple a ship than to sink it. Crippling it takes far less effort and resources. So if you have a very capable warhead with a CEP figure of less then 5 meters, an air burst of 5 meters will do serious damages to the enemy.

He is talking about current Shaurya without active radar seeker, which is must for a moving target like ship like other anti-ship missiles have. So CEP will not be a problem.


One question, does the SM-3 or SM-2 Block IV has capability to engage ships? I heard they can.

 

[Firemaster]

Before calling it misinterpretation read the posts. I did not posted them to repeat the same thing again and again.

Shaurya has a CEP of 30 m without active radar terminal homing. The anti-ship version of Shaurya must have it. Brahmos also have active radar seeker. There is no question of Shaurya as anti-ship missile without active radar homing.

Exactly and we will also benefit from the Active Radar Seeker which would be used in Hypersonic Brahmos.
The same can be used in Anti Ship Shaurya ( If There Are Such Plans)

 

[gambit]

You mean none of the missile on board Aegis ship will be operable if Radar arrays are destroyed???

Pretty much so. Look at it this way, without the radar, the mighty F-15 would not fly. I said 'would not'. Did not say 'could not'. The Thunderbirds F-16s fly without their radars, but we know what the T-birds' missions are.

Secondly If the ship can move and reaches back to its owner country after the radar being crippled( with little structural damage), then the ship can be repaired but if it is sunk then making whole new ship will be more troublesome process.
So in my view It is necessary to sink the ship

You can argue so. But there is a difference between 'strategic' and 'tactical' goals. With 'strategic' goals, you are talking about effects usually unseen. With 'tactical' goals, you are talking about effects that are immediate and can affect strategic decisions. That is why politicians need tactical successes from the military to make strategic projections and negotiations. If I present to you proofs that even though I will not sink your ships but can consistently send them back to home ports for costly and lengthy repairs, guess who will be more amenable to negotiations?

 

[Kinetic]

Exactly and we will also benefit from the Active Radar Seeker which would be used in Hypersonic Brahmos.
The same can be used in Anti Ship Shaurya ( If There Are Such Plans)

Well bro, there is no question of Shurya as anti-ship missile without AR seeker. Current Shaurya has 30 m CEP which will be an added advantage.

gambit questioned that at such long range (750 km) the ship may be out of Shaurya's AR seeker but I think it will not be a problem as well because it is very fast. Actually the time taken by Harpoon (125 km version) and Shaurya to reach the targets at respective ranges are same, so if the ship is not out of Harpoon's seeker, so will be with Shaurya.

 

[gambit]

He is talking about current Shaurya without active radar seeker, which is must for a moving target like ship like other anti-ship missiles have. So CEP will not be a problem.

Even against fixed land targets, active radar seekers can help to compensate for any in-flight course deviations.

One question, does the SM-3 or SM-2 Block IV has capability to engage ships? I heard they can.

Yes.

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Congrats DRDO.

 

[Firemaster]

Pretty much so. Look at it this way, without the radar, the mighty F-15 would not fly. I said 'would not'. Did not say 'could not'. The Thunderbirds F-16s fly without their radars, but we know what the T-birds' missions are.


You can argue so. But there is a difference between 'strategic' and 'tactical' goals. With 'strategic' goals, you are talking about effects usually unseen. With 'tactical' goals, you are talking about effects that are immediate and can affect strategic decisions. That is why politicians need tactical successes from the military to make strategic projections and negotiations. If I present to you proofs that even though I will not sink your ships but can consistently send them back to home ports for costly and lengthy repairs, guess who will be more amenable to negotiations?

Can you Please

 

[gambit]

If I present to you proofs that even though I will not sink your ships but can consistently send them back to home ports for costly and lengthy repairs, guess who will be more amenable to negotiations?

Can you Please

That will require US to go to war, right? By then, it would be too late.

 

[Firemaster]

Well bro, there is no question of Shurya as anti-ship missile without AR seeker. Current Shaurya has 30 m CEP which will be an added advantage.

gambit questioned that at such long range (750 km) the ship may be out of Shaurya's AR seeker but I think it will not be a problem as well because it is very fast. Actually the time taken by Harpoon (125 km version) and Shaurya to reach the targets at respective ranges are same, so if the ship is not out of Harpoon's seeker, so will be with Shaurya.

But Perhaps gambit is talking in context of too much speed of the Shaurya Missile,Not time taken

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 PM ----------

That will require US to go to war, right? By then, it would be too late.

No, lol
i mean any previous experience

 

[gambit]

But Perhaps gambit is talking in context of too much speed of the Shaurya Missile,Not time taken

The problem here is that the attacker does not know the position of the moving target.

Try to imagine the ship moving laterally X from the missile's perspective. During flight, the missile may not have target position updates and therefore cannot adjust its course to compensate. But if we imagine the ship moving 'away' or 'approach' Z then the ship will remain within the missile's radar view by the time it reaches the area. That is the unknown.

 

[HZR2011]

Its funny that India Does'nt produce subsonic cruise missile but is producing Supersonic and Hypersonic cruise missile!!!!

BTW some people we talking about the disadvantage of range in Brahmos(290Km)
wat do they say now???

We have shaurya a cruise missile with a range of 1000Km (more than 700km missile of ur sworn enemy) but unfortunately its hypersonic!!!!!

 

[Firemaster]

The problem here is that the attacker does not know the position of the moving target.

Try to imagine the ship moving laterally from the missile's perspective. During flight, the missile may not have target position updates and therefore cannot adjust its course to compensate. But if we imagine the ship moving 'away' or 'approach' then the ship will remain within the missile's radar view by the time it reaches the area. That is the unknown.

It may also happen with Subsonic and supersonic Missiles also.