Should've Used Bombs That Destroyed Buildings: Air Force Chief On Balakot

[Cent4]

"On hindsight, if you see the propaganda war - we should have dropped the other Spice bomb, one which would have devastated the buildings,"

He is talking about flatulence bombs.

 

[Yaseen1]

if they used such bombs their armychief would have been killed by PAF strikes

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

In any case, somehow, I believe that the Balakot air strike was a deliberate miss by IAF.

Or, the GPS signals they received got corrupted because of jamming...

 

[AUz]

@gambit @500

Gents, you both are ex-military with the relevant experience (especially you, Gambit...since you served in USAF as a fighter pilot/officer) that we don't have. Could you shed some light on IAF chief's claims?

IAF used Spice 2000 bombs, which carry upto 1000kg of payload (Mk. 83 or Mk. 84 warheads). Is it possible that Spice 2000 bombs just penetrate a non-reinforced civilian brick structure and kill humans inside it, without destroying it?

@500 You are an Israeli. Is there a version of Spice 2000 that can do that? From Spice 2000's wikipedia page and few Israeli Defence Forums, what I've gathered is that Spice 2000 is a Stand-off glide bomb, and it is that----shouldn't it be destroying the brick houses it falls on?

Would appreciate the insights.

 

[SIPRA]

Or, the GPS signals they received got corrupted because of jamming...

No, Brother. My theory is that whatever we may think about Modi and Indian Establishment, they are not insane. In fact, they are extremely cunning and shrewd. They could never have dared to strike Pakistan, to cause such an extent of causality and destruction, as they claimed to be. Because, had it happened, it would have resulted in a very severe and devastating retaliation from Pakistan, far beyond what actually happened on Feb 27. In fact, in my view, they ensured, during the Balakot strike, that no causality or destruction of building/infrastructure shall take place.

How it was done? In my opinion, to the pilots, correct X and Y coordinates of the targets were given, but the Z coordinate (level) was increased, by a certain margin, to ensure that the bombs passed over the claimed targets and didn't hit them, but fell close to them.

The prime purpose of the strike was to spin an electoral victory for BJP. Additional/secondary benefits were to establish hegemony of India and to cause humiliation of Pakistan. Modi knew that with the help of the compliant media and gullible public, he would be able to fool the voter, effectively, in which he succeeded, even beyond his imagination, I think. Claim of terrorists kill was all propaganda, for the purpose.

 

[The Eagle]

1. IAF used Spice 2000 bombs to destroy Jaish terror camps
2. The bomb penetrates buildings and kills human targets
3. IAF should have dropped bombs that destroyed entire structures: Air chief

India & its forces, back to square and seems like have learn too much (excessive in other words) from people like Poonia and someone who used to troll Indian Ex-Service that claimed Spice-2000 like some kind of AI killing machine.

Above three points are good enough to understand that not just Indians but even, someone successfully trolled their military leadership and made it to believe in it.

In reality, there was no attack on Balakot, as proven by this but in-fact the real target was Indian Voters being convinced to vote Modi. The campaign started with multiple goals in one attack and that was Pulwama. An attack in Pulwama helps Modi to play victim & walk away from his failed responsibilities in the IoK... Call it terrorism & downplay Freedom Struggle by Kashmiris against Indian occupying forces & their brutalities.... Act big, malign to cover & threaten Pakistan.... Stage a drama like an attack under the guise of mere Airspace violation & not to face aftermath; drop payload in haste as planned....

India will keep lying about that, people will be convinced to vote Modi, Pakistan wouldn't be attacked in real nor any human/infrastructure loss and wouldn't have any excuse to attack back; was the plan. Whatever Pakistan did in return was the punishment for violating our Airspace and had it been some kind of attack killing Pakistanis like this & damaging Infrastructure; India would have been mourning for Bipin and many others till now. IAF dropped payload, missed anything that IAF intended to target but tried to use every single fairy tale to its credit and then, PAF replied, locked the targets but missed deliberately, delivered the message to never ever dare so and then, Abhi became the bonus to make it sure to the India.

Rest about speaking of Spice-2000 bomb that only targets flesh & bones & or it is a Kit? will remain puzzling for Indian Military. Even Israelis wouldn't know such capability of Spice-2000 (kits).

 

[gambit]

IAF used Spice 2000 bombs, which carry upto 1000kg of payload (Mk. 83 or Mk. 84 warheads). Is it possible that Spice 2000 bombs just penetrate a non-reinforced civilian brick structure and kill humans inside it, without destroying it?

Humans are soft tissues targets, to get clinical about it.

With explosions, you can kill soft tissues without destroying the building, but in doing so, you will make the building unusable, which is pretty much the same thing as demolishing it with the bomb in the first place.

Explosions -- like pressurized water and electricity -- always seeks the path of least resistance. The reason the US is going after the 'small diameter bomb' (SDB) is not because we give a damn about the structure, but because the SDB can kill soft tissue and we can carry more of the SDB.

If I carry two 1,000 lbs JDAMs, they will not be used against soft tissues targets. JDAMs of that size are meant to either destroy/damage hardened targets that contains soft tissues targets hiding inside, or when the mission is specifically against non-human targets.

In war, humans seeks shelter, whether the shelter is a cave or a building. If I am bombing troops, I would rather have a cluster of smaller bombs than only two 1,000 lbs JDAMs. So if I am going to bomb just one building that contains humans, I could use a smaller penetrator bomb that will contain enough force to destroy soft tissue but not break the walls of that building, or I could use one 1,000 lbs JDAM so that the building will collapse, which will kill everyone inside the building, or I could use a smaller bomb that will penetrate a wall then explode, which will kill soft tissues, then because I carry more of these bombs, I can move to other soft targets hiding inside hard structures.

But if the SPICE bomb is 1,000 lbs, I am using the building -- not the bomb -- to kill the humans inside.

 

[zulu]

No Sir check old threads/post i mention before .They were insisting from day one we hit and killed 300 after month and some more they suddenly change it we missed it deliberately.I pointed it out that now they adopting our line of 27th February that we missed you by plan.Lucky them they got over 1.3 billions idiots who can believe everything even such sudden change in story

In any case, somehow, I believe that the Balakot air strike was a deliberate miss by IAF.

 

[The Eagle]

In any case, somehow, I believe that the Balakot air strike was a deliberate miss by IAF.

And why is that so? though, personal belief has nothing to do with facts & findings out there but, curious to know your take on this.

or you want to ask that Balakot Airstrike was a precise miss? and total loss for Indian Propaganda.

 

[graphican]

... and yet another invitation to Indians to chose to believe this #hit and be counted among mentally retard.

• Who doesn't know houses in Kashmir have tin roofs? Tin roofs are fragile and an exploded domestic gas-cylinder will blow them off the walls.
• Indian airforce knew what building are they targetting yet decided to stay stupid and use "penetration bombs instead". If a penetration bomb had actually landed on the building, it would have crippled the entire structure as penetration bombs are made to penetrate concrete not tin and they would've flattened a brick-and-mortar building with 1/10th of their force.
• Now as per Indian story, Indians chose penetration bombs for some reason, penetration bombs went through the 2cm thick tin roof, killed every human possible under it but failed to damage any part of the building. Bombs left no holes in the building when they penetrated and possibly they walked in the building through the doors? possibly after knocking on it first?
• And what do Indians think, what destroyed trees and dug holes in the ground?
• And a final question; why the f* are you so stupid? Is that a punishment from God or have you chosen to be retarded by choice?

 

[SIPRA]

No Sir check old threads/post i mention before .They were insisting from day one we hit and killed 300 after month and some more they suddenly change it we missed it deliberately.I pointed it out that now they adopting our line of 27th February that we missed you by plan.Lucky them they got over 1.3 billions idiots who can believe everything even such sudden change in story

Read my Post # 20.

And why is that so? though, personal belief has nothing to do with facts & findings out there but, curious to know your take on this.

or you want to ask that Balakot Airstrike was a precise miss? and total loss for Indian Propaganda.

Read my Post # 20.

 

[Jinn Baba]

Humans are soft tissues targets, to get clinical about it.

With explosions, you can kill soft tissues without destroying the building, but in doing so, you will make the building unusable, which is pretty much the same thing as demolishing it with the bomb in the first place.

Explosions -- like pressurized water and electricity -- always seeks the path of least resistance. The reason the US is going after the 'small diameter bomb' (SDB) is not because we give a damn about the structure, but because the SDB can kill soft tissue and we can carry more of the SDB.

If I carry two 1,000 lbs JDAMs, they will not be used against soft tissues targets. JDAMs of that size are meant to either destroy/damage hardened targets that contains soft tissues targets hiding inside, or when the mission is specifically against non-human targets.

In war, humans seeks shelter, whether the shelter is a cave or a building. If I am bombing troops, I would rather have a cluster of smaller bombs than only two 1,000 lbs JDAMs. So if I am going to bomb just one building that contains humans, I could use a smaller penetrator bomb that will contain enough force to destroy soft tissue but not break the walls of that building, or I could use one 1,000 lbs JDAM so that the building will collapse, which will kill everyone inside the building, or I could use a smaller bomb that will penetrate a wall then explode, which will kill soft tissues, then because I carry more of these bombs, I can move to other soft targets hiding inside hard structures.

But if the SPICE bomb is 1,000 lbs, I am using the building -- not the bomb -- to kill the humans inside.

What's your take on the Indian claims?

 

[ziaulislam]

So unprofessional

 

[Pakstallion]

Following on from this great post:

The holes in the Indian story are massive and laughable.

First off the DGISPR in the "PTM news conference" started off by dealing with this very theory. I realize it was a long presentation but I would ask you to watch just from minute 2:30 till 3:15. 45 seconds. He addresses this theory and challenges the IAF to demonstrate that they possess this capability and we will accept what you have claimed. This conference was April 29th. If you are an Indian, just imagine if India had challenged Pakistan for a demonstration. I would argue before the press conference was over, a time for demonstration would be affixed. Its now July 26th. See link below.

I understand that Indians would not just do whatever the DGISPR wants but in this case, there is pretty much unanimous consensus that those bombs missed their targets and the "holes" are shadows from trees which disappear quickly after. Only the most biased Indian commentators would argue this. To refute this, the DGISPR gave you an out, just demonstrate it, in your own training range, could use flat area, could do 40 km, won't be harassed by Pakistani aircrafts or dense EW environment as is seen in Azad Kashmir. Heck make a show of it. Embarrass Pakistan. Instead you stand embarrassed with this BS.

Also, going on from what Eagle said. Its a kit, India bought in 2008 and delivered in 2009 as per Sipri. Did this kit have these capabilities you are claiming? Can a 1000 or 2000lb bomb actually cause what you have claimed without destroying non hardened bunkers? What about the craters seen that seem to show 1000-2000lb bombs? Where are they from? If you claim to have used the Spice 250 can you show that its operational in the ISREALI AIRFORCE (not Indian) - see link below. Enough Lying. Own up to your failure.

DGISPR conference:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-07-18/israeli-smart-bomb-closes-service-debut

"(100) SPICEGuided bomb (2008)2009 (100) " Quote form Sipri Arms registry.
http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

1. IAF used Spice 2000 bombs to destroy Jaish terror camps
2. The bomb penetrates buildings and kills human targets
3. IAF should have dropped bombs that destroyed entire structures: Air chief

India & its forces, back to square and seems like have learn too much (excessive in other words) from people like Poonia and someone who used to troll Indian Ex-Service that claimed Spice-2000 like some kind of AI killing machine.

Above three points are good enough to understand that not just Indians but even, someone successfully trolled their military leadership and made it to believe in it.

In reality, there was no attack on Balakot, as proven by this but in-fact the real target was Indian Voters being convinced to vote Modi. The campaign started with multiple goals in one attack and that was Pulwama. An attack in Pulwama helps Modi to play victim & walk away from his failed responsibilities in the IoK... Call it terrorism & downplay Freedom Struggle by Kashmiris against Indian occupying forces & their brutalities.... Act big, malign to cover & threaten Pakistan.... Stage a drama like an attack under the guise of mere Airspace violation & not to face aftermath; drop payload in haste as planned....

India will keep lying about that, people will be convinced to vote Modi, Pakistan wouldn't be attacked in real nor any human/infrastructure loss and wouldn't have any excuse to attack back; was the plan. Whatever Pakistan did in return was the punishment for violating our Airspace and had it been some kind of attack killing Pakistanis like this & damaging Infrastructure; India would have been mourning for Bipin and many others till now. IAF dropped payload, missed anything that IAF intended to target but tried to use every single fairy tale to its credit and then, PAF replied, locked the targets but missed deliberately, delivered the message to never ever dare so and then, Abhi became the bonus to make it sure to the India.

Rest about speaking of Spice-2000 bomb that only targets flesh & bones & or it is a Kit? will remain puzzling for Indian Military. Even Israelis wouldn't know such capability of Spice-2000 (kits).

 

[TOPGUN]

Should've , could have , would have is all in the past now and we all the know the final results lolz.