Should we accept Sweden into NATO?

[jamahir]

Both are our religions, what you have to do with it ?

Rubbish ! Buddhism was the reaction of Gautama to the atrocious social and socio-economic system in India maintained by the Brahmanvadis / Manuvadis. So naturally, fanatic Hindu rulers wiped out Buddhism from the land of its birth.

 

[musti]

PKK is a terror organisation. Kill our people and security forces.

its not hard to understand Turkish demands.

 

[MastanKhan]

We have 45 nukes here in Büchel.


As i said before im against any form of intervention with poor countries. No help, no aid. As long they pose no threat ignore them. If they pose a threat, destroy them.

Hi,

Never ever forget that Poor Pakistan sent you aid in the 50's.

Get your independence from the US first. Right now you are american slaves then make claims.

 

[Mzizblz]

You polluted this thread and wrote that entire irrelevant post just for the bolded part. Your Hindutva fanatical ancestors wiped out Buddhism from its birthplace in India. Why not add that to your list?

Both are our religions, what you have to do with it ?

Rubbish ! Buddhism was the reaction of Gautama to the atrocious social and socio-economic system in India maintained by the Brahmanvadis / Manuvadis. So naturally, fanatic Hindu rulers wiped out Buddhism from the land of its birth.

But wasn't buddha himself very proud of his Arya Kshatriya roots?

 

[Apollon]

Hi,

Never ever forget that Poor Pakistan sent you aid in the 50's.

Get your independence from the US first. Right now you are american slaves then make claims.

We never got aid from pakistan...


And we are not american slaves. Defending Ukraine is our interest

 

[dBSPL]

Swedish Prime Minister Andersson: "We are taking Turkiye's objections very seriously at the moment, especially on the fight against terrorism"

Andersson: Tar Turkiets oro på största allvar

Statsminister Magdalena Andersson (S) och Natos generalsekreterare Jens Stoltenberg möttes under måndagen på Harpsund.<br/>Med på agendan var, förstås, Turkiets blockering av Sveriges Natoansökan.<br/>– Vi tar Turkiets invändningar på största allvar, inte minst vad gäller kampen mot terrorism...

www.gp.se

Stoltenberg said Sweden had taken two "important steps" to meet Turkiye's objections to Swedish membership.

In Sweden, Stoltenberg said: "I welcome that Sweden is starting to amend the country's counter-terrorism legislation now and ensuring that arms export legislation is compatible with future NATO membership and new commitments to allies."

When asked what Turkiye's requests that ready to meet by Sweden, Prime Minister Andersson said that Sweden has start to taken the necessary measures in this regard.

“We have tightened our laws and we have much stronger anti-terrorism legislation than before,” Andersson stressed.

Andersson said, "At the moment, bilateral and tripartite talks with Turkiye are ongoing. We will be very clear about how we fight terrorism," and emphasized that Sweden will "contribute to the fight against terrorism".

Stoltenberg stated that in terms of security, Sweden is "in a better place today than it was before we applied" and that "the goal is of course full membership as soon as possible, but from now on we have to seriously deal with Turkiye's objections".

Stoltenberg still hasn't given a date for when Sweden & Finland can join.

Stoltenberg: "Swedish signals are useful and show that Sweden, like Finland, is ready to take concrete action against (Turkiye's) terrorism-related objections".
*


Statements are an indirect confession of guilt. And work on change of attitude and legal regulations can be considered as an apology. There is a significant change between Sweden's attitude and expression style a month ago and now. If Sweden approaches Turkiye's national security problems in good faith, it will surely get a reward. If Sweden takes one step, Turkiye will take two steps.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Let's say the members of the ISIS terrorist organization, after serving as a military, doctrinal or financial supporter under this organization for about 10 years, got up one morning and decided to name the organization ISWIS; In this case, can Sweden consider the fact that they gather supporters on the streets of Stockholm with Bin Laden posters as a freedom of expression, saying that the ISWIS organization is not on our terror list? Can these people raise money in Sweden under the name ISWIS and provide financial support to this new organization?

If the answer is yes, Sweden is a safe haven for global terrorism.

If the answer is no for some terrorist but yes some other terrorists, the Swedish state is a spineless state whose actions and principles are inconsistent with each other, and which ignores its own interests and has agreed to carry the baggage of others.

We have great respect for Sweden's own national interests and national security, and we care about its geopolitical risks. We would also be pleased to be in the same military alliance as Sweden. The fact that Russia could turn its attention to north while we struggling against Russia in 3 different geographies will be an important widening in terms of our geopolitics too. However, the main criterion here is that both states had to be approaches in accordance with the spirit of alliance.

Sweden has the same list of terrorists as the rest of the EU.
When something makes it to the list, it is illegal to fund them, or to recruit for them in Sweden.
Turkey claims that YPG == PKK, but have failed to convince anyone that this is the case. That is why I think Turkey should convince EU with arguments, instead of blackmail.

…
Statements are an indirect confession of guilt. And work on change of attitude and legal regulations can be considered as an apology. There is a significant change between Sweden's attitude and expression style a month ago and now. If Sweden approaches Turkiye's national security problems in good faith, it will surely get a reward. If Sweden takes one step, Turkiye will take two steps.

Sweden changed its laws regarding terrorism in 2020, so this is not a brand new thing. As part of an alliance, handling of weapon sales will be different from when we are not a member. Certainly not an apology.
Maybe the misinformation about weapons and funding is getting cleared up.

 

[Akritas]

As time goes on, those who should understand, have realize that everything that Turkey is asking for is just a pretext. Turkey does not ask for compensation from Finland and Sweden, but has put other issues on the table, such as Syria, Cyprus and the Aegean, as the Turks themselves have said.

Officials from Germany, US, Britain, France and Turkey meet in Berlin | eKathimerini.com

Senior officials from Germany, the United States, Britain, France and Turkey held talks in Berlin on Tuesday ahead of a NATO summit in Madrid at the end of the month, according to reports in the Turkish media.

www.ekathimerini.com

 

[dBSPL]

Although I disagree with some of the views here, I respect them. However, members who write a troll-level nonsense fiction and try to make propaganda with it are not included.

Greek friends are particularly active on the topics that Turkiye's reservations are trying to explain and seem very eager to accuse TR of blocking NATO's expansion. By instrumentalizing this, we also see efforts to manipulate the subject with irrelevant things. With no one reminding these friends of their country's past practices, of course, this audacity comes with it.

Greece rejected Macedonia's membership for 11 years.

There was no terrorism problem,
Macedonia did not threaten Greek territory.
There were no security problems.

For exactly 11 years, they deliberately and openly blocked the membership of the country in question because of its name.

Macedonia officially changed its name to join the alliance , went to a referendum and changed the first article of their Constitution.
They joined to the alliance as North Macedonia.

It is a traditional state policy for Greece to prevent and threaten neighboring countries from joining the unions of which it is a member. The EU membership of North Macedonia was also blocked on these grounds. Just last month, the Greek foreign minister openly threatened Albania to block the EU process because of the disagreement on the EEZ.

*

We do not want Sweden or Finland to change its name. We do not want them to hold a referendum or change the first article of their Constitution.

As a member state of the alliance, we expect them to take a concrete stance against terrorism and in a way that does not harm our national security. This is already the main duty of the member states of the alliance. The texts you will sign are directly related to this. Read the membership agreement.

Unless they do this, they will not be able to become members of Nato. If they wish, they can form a alliance(lets revive Kalmar under US flag) among themselves.

 

[Two banks of the River]

The thing people should understand. If you have F35, you are a mutual defence partner with the other users. Simple.

 

[dBSPL]

Turkiye will make a informing at the NATO summit in Madrid (28-30 June), with special documents containing evidence of Sweden and Finland's financial and political support to the PKK/KCK.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Turkiye will make a informing at the NATO summit in Madrid (28-30 June), with special documents containing evidence of Sweden and Finland's financial and political support to the PKK/KCK.

So far Turkey has shown very little evidence that Sweden and Finland support PKK.

Example of non-evidence.

* AT-4s found in Iraq/Syria - exported by the US.
* 30+ year old photos of Kurds carrying weapons.
No proof of terrorist activities.
Statute of limitations reached.
* Demonstrations using PLKK flags - Freedom of Speech allows flags.
* Sweden has a large budget item for Syria - Money is not sent to ”Kurds”. They are sent to WHO, the Red Cross, UNRWA etc,
=======
* Sweden embargoes weapons to Turkey. Not supporting terrorists, as they are embargoed as well. Many NATO nations embargo Turkey over the Syrian invasion.
* Sweden handles extradition requests in courts. When Turkey has a valid case, people are extradited. When Turkey does not have a case, they are not.
Sweden. along with many (NATO) nations, have diplomatic/political contacts with YPG/PYD.
* Sweden has the same list of terrorist organisations as the EU and those organisations are not on the list. It was the first country outside Turkey that classified PKK as a terrorist organisation.
* Sweden tightened the laws on support for terrorism in 2020, and last year it was decided to merge a number of laws on terrorism which will simplify for courts.
* It is illegal to export weapons without a license, No license is possible for Syria/Iraq,
* It is illegal to send funds to terrorists
* It is illegal to recruit people to join terrorist organisations.
* It is illegal to travel to join terrorist in warzones.
* It is legal to demonstrate and voice opinions.

 

[Foinikas]

Greece rejected Macedonia's membership for 11 years.

Mace-what?

Macedonia did not threaten Greek territory.
There were no security problems.

They did have irridentist claims (and still do). They also haven't largely kept to the deal in their own country.

Their propaganda had been growing for years and years,to the point where it has become way too ridiculous. Bulgarians are laughing at them,Albanians are laughing at them.

But look,you're not wrong on the part that we have pressured them to change the name and stop their irridentist claims.
I don't blame Turkey for using the veto threat. It's a chance for Erdogan to get the deals he want. But it's also a gamble.

It might work for Turkey or it might anger the allies even more.

 

[Akritas]

Although I disagree with some of the views here, I respect them. However, members who write a troll-level nonsense fiction and try to make propaganda with it are not included.

Greek friends are particularly active on the topics that Turkiye's reservations are trying to explain and seem very eager to accuse TR of blocking NATO's expansion. By instrumentalizing this, we also see efforts to manipulate the subject with irrelevant things. With no one reminding these friends of their country's past practices, of course, this audacity comes with it.

Greece rejected Macedonia's membership for 11 years.

There was no terrorism problem,
Macedonia did not threaten Greek territory.
There were no security problems.

For exactly 11 years, they deliberately and openly blocked the membership of the country in question because of its name.

Macedonia officially changed its name to join the alliance , went to a referendum and changed the first article of their Constitution.
They joined to the alliance as North Macedonia.

They are not the same, do not confuse them deliberately.
The name issue has existed since the time of its independence from Yugoslavia. That is why there was a UN decision to resolve this issue. The fact that he went to NATO, without the name being solved, was the reason why he was out of NATO for 11 years.

It is a traditional state policy for Greece to prevent and threaten neighboring countries from joining the unions of which it is a member. The EU membership of North Macedonia was also blocked on these grounds. Just last month, the Greek foreign minister openly threatened Albania to block the EU process because of the disagreement on the EEZ.

Threat?
But there is an agreement for Greece to go to the Hague with Albania.
How is the EEZ agreement reached between two countries?

Accordance International Law, the following procedure is followed:

1- Initial talks between the two states based on the basis of reciprocity and good neighborliness.
2- If the talks fail, then they continue based on the Law of the Sea(UNCLOS).
3- If a country disagree or does not accept the Law of the Sea, then both they go to International Courts.
4- If a country does not even accept the jurisdiction of the International Courts, then it threatens, invades, bullying and act as the troublemaker of the region.

Guess which country is this?

Referring to the prospect of Albania’s accession to the European Union, Dendias noted that Greece “fully supports the immediate start of accession negotiations with Albania and North Macedonia.”

Greek FM’s Albania meetings dominated by EEZ, sea borders | eKathimerini.com

Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias said on Monday that the procedures for the referral of the issue of the delimitation of the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and the continental shelf between Greece and Albania to The Hague should be expedited.

www.ekathimerini.com

Greece, Albania Vow to Speed up Resolution of Maritime Disputes

After the two ministers met in Tirana on Monday, they pledged to work faster on resolving their decades-old maritime disputes before the International Court of Justice in the Hague.

balkaninsight.com

 

[Attila the Hun]

Mace-what?


They did have irridentist claims (and still do). They also haven't largely kept to the deal in their own country.

Their propaganda had been growing for years and years,to the point where it has become way too ridiculous. Bulgarians are laughing at them,Albanians are laughing at them.

But look,you're not wrong on the part that we have pressured them to change the name and stop their irridentist claims.
I don't blame Turkey for using the veto threat. It's a chance for Erdogan to get the deals he want. But it's also a gamble.

It might work for Turkey or it might anger the allies even more.

Macedonians were not GREEK.