Should Pakistan purchase the Venezuelan F16

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Considering that they (Vanazuellans) do not have the parts or maintenence contracts for F16 would it be a good Idea for Pakistan Airforce to just out right purchase the Vanazuellan crafts

They have 24 F16 - and we could just get Upgrade kits for these once they get inducted into Pakistan airforce? And just upgrade these fighters at Turkish bases.

From their (Venazuellan) prespective these planes are out of shape un maintainable in long run - may be give them K8 and may be some other perks

Meanwhile we can offer Vanazuelans something alternative for which they can attain - spareparts and maintain it ? via china help ? K8 becasue its probbly easy for them to maintain those + other items or Cash value - they probbly are better off flying Migs

They could may be order more FC-1 who knows but its a shame to see the F16 in Vanazuelan force just sit and grounded

It would be a win-win situation ?

This should make up for the 20-30 odd planes in 90's which we never recieved?




Also it will help US get back its Vipers back from Venezuela ? so win-win situation

May be in doing so we can start retiring some of our old planes sooner

 

[qsaark]

The precedence of procuring second hand airplanes form multiple users is already set in the case of F-86s, and later for Mirages. If PAF's romance continues with almost three decade old F-16s and the PAF remains adamant to sink her already limited resources in an embargo-prone airplane, than the idea is definitely good and absolutely doable. Why only Venezuelan F-16s? Japan, Turkey, Netherlands, Denmark and Norway (the F-35 consortium) are also going to get rid of their aging birds in coming years. PAF is already a living graveyard of the undead Mirage III/V, nothing wrong if its becomes another living graveyard of the undead F-16s.

 

[Peregrine]

hi,
Exactly Pakistan needs to concentrate on getting 4.5 gen or 5 gen later on. so has to stop loving these antiquated f-16's, you are not going to believe this many people in Pakistan think that f-16 is the best jet in the whole wide world. just because the media keeps on showing those 30 year old songs with these f-16s and people keep on getting inspired

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

hi,
Exactly Pakistan needs to concentrate on getting 4.5 gen or 5 gen later on. so has to stop loving these antiquated f-16's, you are not going to believe this many people in Pakistan think that f-16 is the best jet in the whole wide world. just because the media keeps on showing those 30 year old songs with these f-16s and people keep on getting inspired

Interesting view point , thank you

There are few companies that are offering ehem ehem ... some pretty good ehem ehem .. forbidden technologies on these F16 like AESA Radars and these planes work well with our AWACs platform

Its a great oppourtunity to snag extra 24 units from country that has no maintainability of these crafts

While F35 is a amazing "plane" on paper , we surely have no access to it untill US invents anti stealth capable technology itself or any other country .. for that matter
But even in best case scenario we can't expect this for another 10 years+

Our best bet other then F16 fighters is J10B or J11 from china ...

We could retire some of our mirages if we aquire these planes

What other options do we have really other then F16 ~ at moment that will give us advantage?

 

[F86 Saber]

I don't know why people keep on suggesting that the PAF MUST buy Eurofighters, Grippens or Rafales???? Don't they know that we have to "Pay" for them??? Its like asking your dad who earnes 20 k a month to buy a 1.8 M Honda Civic.

 

[Mercenary]

I don't know why people keep on suggesting that the PAF MUST buy Eurofighters, Grippens or Rafales???? Don't they know that we have to "Pay" for them??? Its like asking your dad who earnes 20 k a month to buy a 1.8 M Honda Civic.

Exactly.

Pakistan needs to tailor its armed forces with the budget and resources it has against the enemies it will face. That is India, Al Qaeda, Somali Pirates, and Regional Militants (Taliban, Punjabi, Sindhi, BLA, etc.).

For that, we F-16 is pretty good in taking out these guys as well as heavy investment in SAM's to neutralize India's Air Force.

Such as S-300 which is already giving the advanced Israeli Air Force nightmares as it tries to take out Iranian Nuclear Facilities.

 

[TOPGUN]

Time to get out of the old habit of buying old... and i think PAF is learning that getting rid of the old bringing few old up to speed and looking ahead to the future for better needs .. these f-16's are useless to us and plus any f-16 deals anywhere would have to have US approvel .

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I just thought it would be a good idea , since Venezuela is having serious problems with its fleet of f16 fighters , and US companies do not want to supply them parts

So might a well sell off these assets to third party and right now
US-Pakistan are allies (Nato Allies) so I do not see any objection to these birds flying in Pakistan Airforce

May be if we run MLU on this birds, it would be great addition a full squadron , and we can may be retire a older squadron with these birds.

I heard they got these F16 in 90's or so so I think if we update them with MLU upgrade and may be they can serve us better

We were suppose to get 70 F16 in 90's so if we get these 24 at least it wll cover some gaps

Venezuella can may be get more K8 - or other Chinese planes for its needs.... for which it can get parts for it. Or sell them Mig variant fighters

Otherwise what is the use for having planes that cannot fly on missions? Just waste of money

Perhaps our Airforce should consider this option

Venezuella gets :
a) 10 K-8 (with parts and service) [Trainers , light fighters]
b) 10 Chinese fighters (J10) or 15 (J-7)
c) Plus cash 20 million cash or 10 Al Khalid Tanks (Evaluation)
d) 50 shoulder fired anza stingers (Evaluation discount)

Also K-8 is good platform for their anti drug initiatives

MOU on energy projects , oil vs 18 FC-1 purchase

Pakistan gets :
24 F16 - negotiates MLU from USA, we upgrade these to C/D Block levels
I mean we are getting extra MLU kits arent we ?

US gets :
Knows the vipers are in allied forces , and also it will create work in F16 upgrade and
engineering sector in US. These fleet we can just get these upgraded in US 2 plane at time, while Turkey upgrades our existing fleet, US biggest concern is that these planes do not go to other states it does not gets along with

Pakistan Prespective
F16 : A/B 45 F16 Upgraded to Block C/D level 90%
F16: C/D 18+14 , 18(Option) = 50
F16: A/B 24 if we purchase these with US permission from Vanezuella Upgraded to Block C/D level 90%

119 ~ F16 Vipers to counter Indian 125 fighter MRCA

Mean while our JF17 Thunder & J10B would go head to head with Sukhoi & Mirage2000

So it would be a good strategic balance ... untill India inducts the stealth fighters in 2020

 

[TheEnrichedOne]

If we can get em for cheap....

 

[su-47]

I just thought it would be a good idea , since Venezuela is having serious problems with its fleet of f16 fighters , and US companies do not want to supply them parts

So might a well sell off these assets to third party and right now
US-Pakistan are allies (Nato Allies) so I do not see any objection to these birds flying in Pakistan Airforce

May be if we run MLU on this birds, it would be great addition a full squadron , and we can may be retire a older squadron with these birds.

I heard they got these F16 in 90's or so so I think if we update them with MLU upgrade and may be they can serve us better

We were suppose to get 70 F16 in 90's so if we get these 24 at least it wll cover some gaps

Venezuella can may be get more K8 - or other Chinese planes for its needs.... for which it can get parts for it. Or sell them Mig variant fighters

Otherwise what is the use for having planes that cannot fly on missions? Just waste of money

Perhaps our Airforce should consider this option

Venezuella gets :
a) 10 K-8 (with parts and service) [Trainers , light fighters]
b) 10 Chinese fighters (J10) or 15 (J-7)
c) Plus cash 20 million cash or 10 Al Khalid Tanks (Evaluation)
d) 50 shoulder fired anza stingers (Evaluation discount)

Also K-8 is good platform for their anti drug initiatives

MOU on energy projects , oil vs 18 FC-1 purchase

Pakistan gets :
24 F16 - negotiates MLU from USA, we upgrade these to C/D Block levels
I mean we are getting extra MLU kits arent we ?

US gets :
Knows the vipers are in allied forces , and also it will create work in F16 upgrade and
engineering sector in US. These fleet we can just get these upgraded in US 2 plane at time, while Turkey upgrades our existing fleet, US biggest concern is that these planes do not go to other states it does not gets along with

Pakistan Prespective
F16 : A/B 45 F16 Upgraded to Block C/D level 90%
F16: C/D 18+14 , 18(Option) = 50
F16: A/B 24 if we purchase these with US permission from Vanezuella Upgraded to Block C/D level 90%

119 ~ F16 Vipers to counter Indian 125 fighter MRCA

Mean while our JF17 Thunder & J10B would go head to head with Sukhoi & Mirage2000

So it would be a good strategic balance ... untill India inducts the stealth fighters in 2020

Ok, it seems reasonable, but there is one big hiccup. Yup, its USA.

USA doesn't want venezuela getting any stronger. And USA knows that without spares Venezuela can't use the F-16s. So the idea of Venezuela getting military hardware in exchange for F-16s will be abhorrent to US. They will oppose this strongly.

Currently Venezuela has been slapped with sanctions. Only countries who supply military hardware to Venezuela are the ones who can tell USA to sod off, i.e Russia and China. I don't think Pakistan would risk ticking off USA for a handful of second hand poorly maintained F-16s.

If PAF wants more F-16s, better to buy them from USA or F-35 partner states. But in my opinion, Pakistan would be better off getting new aircraft.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I hardly doubt 10-12 light trainer aircraft or 10-20 tanks would make any difference to USA , in any case its probby ideal from US prespective that they get back the F16 from them, its not like they will get 700 planes from anyone , every airforce has right to own and upgrade 10-20 planes here and there

Better Nato Ally have it them someone they don't get along with -

Infact I think US would encourage such move, so they can void their contract with vanezuella -

I think from business prespective we should trade with Vanazuela as they have not broken any international law, every one trades with vanazuella even US companies

And from legal point its good for US companies to not get sued in international courts as they did not supplied parts for planes

As for future aircrafts , we only have F-35 in sight and even that in very small numbers 5-10 strategic F-35 assets ... 4-4.5 generation is enough for our airforce

Its not urgent as we can even get chinese Stealth fighters by 2019

Venazuela sells oil and other items , and we need oil for energy and electricty

 

[Myth_buster_1]

this is just stupid.
PAF will be never ever interested in buying used F-16s with 3,000+ hours clocked in them. the block 15 which we just got couple of years ago hardly had 200-500 hours clock in them.

 

[Justin Joseph]

@AZADPAKISTAN2009

Who will pay for it????

Uncle Sam will not appreciate it.

It's time to move up to 5th gen and you are stuck with the time.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

@AZADPAKISTAN2009

Who will pay for it????

Uncle Sam will not appreciate it.

It's time to move up to 5th gen and you are stuck with the time.

We are not in need for 5 generation we are completing our airforce's current need for now and next 2 years , once we achieve that mark then we can look ahead at 5th generation

Well we will pay for it you make it seem we don't have any cash

China is working on 5th generation projects, and we are focused on block 2 Thunder project for now, but we need 5-10 strategic F35 capabilities by 2018-2020 , its not urgent now

Of course these are 24 planes waiting for customer ...

Would fit fine in Pakistan Airforce since we already have the engineering facilities and cooperation with Turkey for MLU on the F16

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@AZADPAKISTAN2009

Who will pay for it????

Uncle Sam will not appreciate it.

It's time to move up to 5th gen and you are stuck with the time.

you dont have to drag yourself in and take opportunity to take your shots.

Even if paf buys Venezuelan F-16s they will be given MLUs which will be par to any updated Mirage-2000 or Mig-29. They wont be 80s tech anymore except the engine and the air frame.
However its very very very very unlikely PAF will buy these F-16s because they simply wont.