Should India remove anti-minority hate from it's textbooks?

[gotti]

Bah,Give me a break.Nudity in art are nothing new so does the pornography.Just look at the Google trends,You people are one of the largest searchers of internet pornography.Every body watch **** and there is nothing wrong in that,So cut the hypocrisy.

Which is why I asked, would you allow it on public display in the big metropolitan cities of India like on billboards or street corners where even your kids can see them?

Lack of Salafis are compansated by Deobandis in Pakistan.Darool Uloom Haqqania rings any bell.Which is ofcourse the birth palace of Taliban.

Deoband is a place in UP, India where all of this literature originated so are we to assume that India is the root of all these problems?

I have nothing against Deobandis and do not believe they are to be equated with terrorism or extremism as I don't indulge in broad generalizations like the person who made them.

I believe the vast majority of them are peace-loving people like the Tableeghi Jamaat who is completely indifferent towards any politicization.

Therefore, I condemn the broad and xenophobic generalization made by this bigot.

Sorry, I just wanted to be on record with regard to this.

Why don't you read Usool-ad-Deen (Roots of the Religion) - five Shi'a Islamic beliefs and Furoo-ad-Deen (Branches of the Religion).

For twelver Shiites one of the 10 Ancillaries of the Faith is J*ihad.For Ismailites Ji*had is one of the seven pillars of Islam.Why don't you use your brain and learn more about it before coming to argue with me.

For the Ismailis, it is meant to be something else

I am sure some Ismaili is reading this somewhere is doing this

It means something completely different to them and it is more of a spiritual thing but in common knowledge, it is assumed to be something else and that is why it is also censored on this site.

Your textbooks are purposely presenting Islam and Muslims as bloodthirsty war mongers.

Also, the issue was with the sixth tenet, whilst there are only five.

Every book or the most basic education in world religions distinguishes between the nuances in the beliefs of different divisions within a faith. You are also doing the same thing by clarifying the differences.

What we see here is that this book has made a broad generalization and made the word, which has bad connotations in the world, to seem as though it means that for everyone else whilst for Ismailis and Shiites, despite being a tenet, does not have that same meaning.

I mean this is the most basic of information available to everyone.

They've done a very disturbingly mischievous thing and it is something that even you are aware of.

Blah,The point of education is to give students a perspective that are in line with the realities in the societies.Not to please people with vested interests.Its the best way avoid creating prejudicies in students mind,such as the case of yours.Yours idea that we don't believe in eating meat is just another case of prejudice.

And, therefore, the book would include that in its "aside" column. That, although, that's what it means, most Hindus don't mind eating it, in practice, today.

Is that what the book was doing there? No.

It is making broad generalizations about what the word means as it is mixing all the sects together whilst taking the word from one sect (for whom it means something else) and applying it to the entire Muslim belief so as to give the wrong impression about what Muslims truly believe.

They were traders kiddo.They enjoyed patronage of various Arabs rulers.That's how they did trading.

There is historical proof of Arab traders being in contact with the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia yet, no proof of their "Hakeems" in the courts of those who existed before them.

Why don't go and learn the history.Martin Luther lived at a time when the renaissance was at its zenith in Europe,during the time when Michelangelo was painting his master pieces in the roofs of Sistine chappel.And know that renaissance continued through out 16th century till the end of 17th century.protestant reformation started during renaissance.

You just told me history and did not prove a point in doing so.

Without realizing your own fault in the original post, you're confusing the most basic of cause vs effects issues.

You said that the Renaissance was caused by the Protestantism while the the truth is that Protestantism was an effect of it. You just admitted that and also stated that Martin Luther was present at its zenith, yet you're still debating this issue only to continue diversion from the issue of India's weaknesses in respecting the sensitivities of its minorities in its education system.

Furthermore, Martin Luther would have never found the apocryphal books had there been no Renaissance because research or looking too much into the faith was discouraged as the clergy had kept its complete control on it - thus, the dark ages.

Some stories of One thousands and one nights are indeed based on the fabulous court of Harun al-Rashid fifth Abbasid caliph in Baghdad.Its a historical fact,whether you like it or not.

It is fantasy and despite being "based" on them, they are not true. The characters could just have been inspired by Persian kings but we would never know about it. They are not a historical document.

Gotti,

you seem to know something but it is a far shot of the real picture,even if you come and live amongst people in TN,you wont get it.

It is far from what you can imagine.

Did Tamil Nadu just become a land far, far away, mentioned in some fantasy film or fairy tale?

"You can't even find out even if you lived there for years"

I laughed because I knew you were joking.

Had you been serious or were trying to be, I would've still laughed, but, at you, instead.

 

[mastaan]

A mockery of the Dalit leader B R Ambedkar in the textbook issued by National Council Of Educational Research And Training in India

There are also other examples like insulting Gujjar, Jat, Sikh and Jain communities in text books.

What do you guys think? Stop the hate in school textbooks or continue the culture of intolerance?

Never step out of your street mate, with that kind of a mindset... Do you even know the context of the text book to even come to the conclusion that you have? You assertion is laughable and ignorant. enough said.

 

[gotti]

Never step out of your street mate, with that kind of a mindset... Do you even know the context of the text book to even come to the conclusion that you have? You assertion is laughable and ignorant. enough said.

The Bhajpa presented this in the Lok Sabha and it was such a sensitive issue that it was done precisely when the education minister, Kapil Sibbal was speaking.

Not only did they leave and go out in the streets, they also came back to attend other sessions of the Indian assembly.

It is not "enough said" because this is an exact quote from a mainstream Indian newspaper and has absolutely nothing to do with my own assertions, as you put it.

Congress insulted gujjars, jats, Sikhs: BJP - Times Of India

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

some people can't even understand cartoon.

 

[Azazel]

Which is why I asked, would you allow it on public display in the big metropolitan cities of India like on billboards or street corners where even your kids can see them?

Depends on what do you mean.If its a master piece like Michelangelo's David can be publicly displayed in front of the Palazzo Vecchio in Florence,then why not.These are one finest examples of art in the Human history.It should be publicly displayed.I want to display the works of Sasha Grey they should find somewhere else.

Deoband is a place in UP, India where all of this literature originated so are we to assume that India is the root of all these problem?

I have nothing against Deobandis and do not believe they are to be equated with terrorism or extremism as I don't indulge in broad generalizations like the person who made them.

I believe the vast majority of them are peace-loving people like the Tableeghi Jamaat who is completely indifferent towards any politicization.

Therefore, I condemn the broad and xenophobic generalization made by this bigot.

Sorry, I just wanted to be on record with regard to this.

Ask any Senior and sensible Pakistani members here,They will all tell you Extremists Taliban draws its ideological support from Deoband movement in Pakistan.Most of the core leaders of Taliban like Jallaludin Haqqani and Mullah Omar are esteemed alumnus of Deobandi Madrassa like Darul Uloom Haqqania.

For the Ismailis, it is meant to be something else

I am sure some Ismaili is reading this somewhere is doing this

It means something completely different to them and it is more of a spiritual thing but in common knowledge, it is assumed to be something else and that is why it is also censored on this site. It is presenting Islam and Muslims and bloodthirsty war mongers.

Also, the issue was with the sixth tenet, whilst there are only five.

Every book or the most basic education in world religions distinguishes between the nuances in the beliefs of different divisions within a faith. You are also doing the same thing but clarifying the differences.

Here, this book has made a broad generalization and made the word, which has bad connotations in the world, to seem as though it means that for everyone else whilst for Ismailis and Shiites, despite being a tenet, does not have that same meaning.

I mean this is the most basic of information available to everyone.

They've done a very disturbingly mischievous thing and it is something that even you are aware of.


And, therefore, the book would include that in its "aside" column. That, although, that's what it means, most Hindus don't mind eating it, in practice, today.

Is that what the book was doing there? No.

It is making broad generalizations about what the word means as it is mixing all the sects together whilst taking the word from one sect (for whom it means something else) and applying it to the entire Muslim belief so as to give the wrong impression about what Muslims truly believe.

Blah..Nothing more than weak effort to compensate for your ignorance and insecurities.The schism between Shias and Sunnis are well known and nothing new.My point was very clear "J" word is indeed part of tenets of Shiite Islam.So there is nothing wrong in including that in the textbook.If you wanna continue this discussion in a meaningful way why don't post the pages of relevant textbook and prove that the text book is indeed not according to the beliefs and practices of Islam.Other wise you are wasting my time.

There is historical proof of Arab traders being in contact with the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia yet, no proof of their "Hakeems" in the courts of those who existed before them.

There are many proof for it,Your ignorance and prejudice won't allow you to believe in it.

Hindu and Buddhist contribution to science in medieval Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The early Abbasid caliphate, which stretched from Egypt to Afghanistan, sought to acquire knowledge from India. The Barmakid family from the cosmopolitan and highly cultured city of Balkh in present-day Afghanistan rose to prominence in Abbasid caliphs’ courts in Baghdad late in the eighth century. The Barmakids encouraged Indian scholars to travel to Baghdad. The Barmakids also commissioned translations of Indian books from Sanskrit into Arabic. With the Barmakids among the Abbasid elite, Indian and Greek physicians vied for prominence in the caliph’s court.

http://purplemotes.net/2012/10/22/views-india-ancient-islamic-world/

Happy now kiddo.

You just told me history and did not prove a point in doing so.

Without realizing your own fault in the original post, you're confusing the most basic of cause vs effects issues.

You said that the Renaissance was caused by the Protestantism while the the truth is that Protestantism was an effect of it. You just admitted that and also stated that Martin Luther was present at its zenith, yet you're still debating this issue only to continue diversion from the issue of India's weaknesses in respecting the sensitivities of its minorities in its education system.

Furthermore, Martin Luther would have never found the apocryphal books had there been no Renaissance because research or looking too much into the faith was discouraged as the clergy had kept its complete control on it - thus, the dark ages.

Kiddo,why don't learn a bit of history.My point was very clear, but your inability to comprehend it was not my problem.Christians acquired large amount of texts from the Muslims during Crusades and the subsequent Reconquista.But started using it because of the peculiar geopolitical conditions of the Dark ages.Most importantly Black death and subsequent and decline of church's power.Your claims that moors in Spain triggered the renaissance is not true.They are just a small part of the bigger picture.

It is fantasy and despite being "based" on them, they are not true. The characters could just have been inspired by Persian kings but we would never know about it. They are not a historical document.

What is a historical document anyway.They documents that contain important information about a person, place, or event in the past.These documents are of historical interest, but,they do not detail the daily lives of ordinary people, or the way society functioned.In that sense many folklores are also historical document.Remember most historians use folklores to understand the life of historical figures like Wiliam Wallace or William the Conqurer.

 

[gotti]

Depends on what do you mean.If its a master piece like Michelangelo's David can be publicly displayed in front of the Palazzo Vecchio in Florence,then why not.These are one finest examples of art in the Human history.It should be publicly displayed.I want to display the works of Sasha Grey they should find somewhere else.






Ask any Senior and sensible Pakistani members here,They will all tell you Extremists Taliban draws its ideological support from Deoband movement in Pakistan.Most of the core leaders of Taliban like Jallaludin Haqqani and Mullah Omar are esteemed alumnus of Deobandi Madrassa like Darul Uloom Haqqania.





Blah..Nothing more than weak effort to compensate for your ignorance and insecurities.The schism between Shias and Sunnis are well known and nothing new.My point was very clear "J" word is indeed part of tenets of Shiite Islam.So there is nothing wrong in including that in the textbook.If you wanna continue this discussion in a meaningful way why don't post the pages of relevant textbook and prove that the text book is indeed not according to the beliefs and practices of Islam.Other wise you are wasting my time.





There are many proof for it,Your ignorance and prejudice won't allow you to believe in it.

Hindu and Buddhist contribution to science in medieval Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




views of India from the ancient Islamic world

Happy now kiddo.



Kiddo,why don't learn a bit of history.My point was very clear, but your inability to comprehend it was not my problem.Christians acquired large amount of texts from the Muslims during Crusades and the subsequent Reconquista.But started using it because of the peculiar geopolitical conditions of the Dark ages.Most importantly Black death and subsequent and decline of church's power.Your claims that moors in Spain triggered the renaissance is not true.They are just a small part of the bigger picture.




What is a historical document anyway.They documents that contain important information about a person, place, or event in the past.These documents are of historical interest, but,they do not detail the daily lives of ordinary people, or the way society functioned.In that sense many folklores are also historical document.Remember most historians use folklores to understand the life of historical figures like Wiliam Wallace or William the Conqurer.

This Child Rapist Zombie is still Trolling here...... I think he needs some serious dose

How are your posts relevant to the anti-minority hate in India?

Also the small-mindedness is evident in that one believes someone new on the forum is automatically new in the world.

I always knew Indians were small-minded, self-centered and bigoted - I just didn't know it was this bad

New on the forum so this kid starts calling me a "kiddo" and consult "senior members" on the forum. I stopped reading after that and other pointless arguments about Michael Angelo

Michael Angelo has something to do with Indians mocking Dalits or other communities like Sikh, Jats and Jains?

Did his painting inspire you to put that non-sense in there?

I can't believe I continued to engage this moron despite knowing that he wanted to derail the discussion. I request the MODs to delete our off-topic discussion, as well, but if I think about it, it's only good because instead, the thread remained on top as people saw activity and it became more prominent.


BTW, I didn't say it, it was the Bhajpa in Lok Sabha during the speech of Kapil Sibbal - it was definitely a big deal.

Not something that you Hindutva extremists can defend, especially not now because the party you are illegitimate children of, said it

 

[acetophenol]

A mockery of the Dalit leader B R Ambedkar in the textbook issued by National Council Of Educational Research And Training in India

There are also other examples like insulting Gujjar, Jat, Sikh and Jain communities in text books.

What do you guys think? Stop the hate in school textbooks or continue the culture of intolerance?

Come on dude, i studied that textbook in my 10th or 9th standard! There was no one bashing anyone!

If i remember correctly,the chapter was a about the role of media,and this cartoon was drawn by famous cartoonist Shankar. If i get my old textbook,i shall scan and post the images tommow.

 

[acetophenol]

Its interesting to note that this cartoon was published in 1949, Dr.B.R.Ambedkar himself didn't find himself humiliated by the cartoon, but some A$$holes 50 years back find their arse holes burning.

 

[gotti]

Come on dude, i studied that textbook in my 10th or 9th standard! There was no one bashing anyone!

If i remember correctly,the chapter was a about the role of media,and this cartoon was drawn by famous cartoonist Shankar. If i get my old textbook,i shall scan and post the images tommow.

I'd say you contact the BJP because they are the ones who raised this issue in Lok Sabha whilst interrupting the speech of Kapil Sabil.

Congress insulted gujjars, jats, Sikhs: BJP - Times Of India

Bhajpa also says a lot things about Pakistan and calls it a terrorists state,by your logic that must definitely be a big deal and true.What are you trying prove here kid,That you are an ignominious bigot with a pea sized brain.

This is what I wrote to the MODs:

"Trolling on a site to derail an issue that was being raised in the Lok Sabha to show how the Indian psyche is shaped in their education system to look down upon the minorities.

This person is trying to censor this very important issue and thereby, restricting the flow of information and trampling upon our freedom of speech.

This is exactly what they do on *** and are trying to promote the culture of Indian tolerance, here.

Do we really want such an intolerant, characteristically Indian culture to be promoted here?"



Their awaited reaction will be interesting to note.

 

[gotti]

Its interesting to note that this cartoon was published in 1949, Dr.B.R.Ambedkar himself didn't find himself humiliated by the cartoon, but some A$$holes 50 years back find their arse holes burning.

This is the complete picture that you tried to conveniently present as from your actual textbook.

Here's a news article showing how Indians suppress those who are only trying to exercise their right to protest.


Four persons allegedly involved in the ransacking of the office of former NCERT advisor Suhas Palshikar in the wake of the row over B R Ambedkar's cartoon have been sent to two days police custody by a court in Pune. The accused, suspected to be activists of the Republican Panthers Party of India, had damaged furniture in the office of Palshikar in Pune University, who resigned as NCERT advisor following row over cartoon of Ambedkar, on May 12. Subsequently, police detained - Rahul Khandare, Subhash Telgute, Balaji Tukaram Gaikwad and Sagar Vitthal Gaikwad. They have been booked for disrupting work and damaging public property. Public Prosecutor AK Pacharne said Khandare and Telgute are also accused in the controversial Indu Mill land row in Mumbai.


Cartoon row: four accused sent to police custody - Hindustan Times


It's like what a leader in Apartheid South Africa once said:

"they're kicking us, and then, they're telling us how to act"


God Bless "World's Largest Democracy"

 

[Azazel]

This is the complete picture that you tried to conveniently present as from your actual textbook.

Here's a news article showing how Indians suppress those who are only trying to exercise their right to protest.


Four persons allegedly involved in the ransacking of the office of former NCERT advisor Suhas Palshikar in the wake of the row over B R Ambedkar's cartoon have been sent to two days police custody by a court in Pune. The accused, suspected to be activists of the Republican Panthers Party of India, had damaged furniture in the office of Palshikar in Pune University, who resigned as NCERT advisor following row over cartoon of Ambedkar, on May 12. Subsequently, police detained - Rahul Khandare, Subhash Telgute, Balaji Tukaram Gaikwad and Sagar Vitthal Gaikwad. They have been booked for disrupting work and damaging public property. Public Prosecutor AK Pacharne said Khandare and Telgute are also accused in the controversial Indu Mill land row in Mumbai.


Cartoon row: four accused sent to police custody - Hindustan Times


It's like what a leader in Apartheid South Africa once said:

"they're kicking us, and then, they're telling us how to act"


God Bless "World's Largest Democracy"

We allow the type of protest allowed in Pakistan where Govt will declare a holiday and allow renegade mobs to vandalise public property at will.There is something called law and order.

This is what I wrote to the MODs:

"Trolling on a site to derail an issue that was being raised in the Lok Sabha to show how the Indian psyche is shaped in their education system to look down upon the minorities.

This person is trying to censor this very important issue and thereby, restricting the flow of information and trampling upon our freedom of speech.

This is exactly what they do on *** and are trying to promote the culture of Indian tolerance, here.

Do we really want such an intolerant, characteristically Indian culture to be promoted here?"



Their awaited reaction will be interesting to note.

Blah,Why don't you complain to the mods that you are terrified of my superior debating skills.Cry me a river.

 

[acetophenol]

This is the complete picture that you tried to conveniently present as from your actual textbook.

Here's a news article showing how Indians suppress those who are only trying to exercise their right to protest.


Four persons allegedly involved in the ransacking of the office of former NCERT advisor Suhas Palshikar in the wake of the row over B R Ambedkar's cartoon have been sent to two days police custody by a court in Pune. The accused, suspected to be activists of the Republican Panthers Party of India, had damaged furniture in the office of Palshikar in Pune University, who resigned as NCERT advisor following row over cartoon of Ambedkar, on May 12. Subsequently, police detained - Rahul Khandare, Subhash Telgute, Balaji Tukaram Gaikwad and Sagar Vitthal Gaikwad. They have been booked for disrupting work and damaging public property. Public Prosecutor AK Pacharne said Khandare and Telgute are also accused in the controversial Indu Mill land row in Mumbai.


Cartoon row: four accused sent to police custody - Hindustan Times


It's like what a leader in Apartheid South Africa once said:

"they're kicking us, and then, they're telling us how to act"


God Bless "World's Largest Democracy"

The picture i posted was obviously not from MY textbook, i didn't claim so either.I told you i will scan the entire page later,which i shall try to do.

The major point is that, the cartoon is in no way humiliating the minorities and neither is Indian textbooks propogating against minorities, Everyone, including you must understand.

 

[474474]

Wow, in just few days, entire Central & South Asia section has been converted to Exclusive India Bashing Section.

Great!!!!

The freedom Indians get here Pakistanis don't even get to defend themselves in Indian forums. I mean even the most hardcore of Indians have to appreciate the kindness of the mods here? They only act in th emost extreme situations unlike indian news comments or forums

Blah,Why don't you complain to the mods that you are terrified of my superior debating skills.Cry me a river.

I won an arguement on the interwebz, yep you're such a winner (Y)

 

[gotti]

The freedom Indians get here Pakistanis don't even get to defend themselves in Indian forums. I mean even the most hardcore of Indians have to appreciate the kindness of the mods here? They only act in th emost extreme situations unlike indian news comments or forums



I won an arguement on the interwebz, yep you're such a winner (Y)

Thank you for responding to someone who wasn't worth my time, yet, still got a response and was being engaged despite clearly indulging in fallacies and illogical arguments only to derail and censor a thread highlighting a severe issue inherent in their society, namely, belittling, degrading and eliminating minorities.

This excerpt from the textbook shows that they are educating their youth in the manner - thus, getting this happen to them.

The arguments he had been creating were nonsensical as he was trying to prove historical facts through One Thousand and One Nights.

He was trying to prove Indian Hakeems were present in the courts of Haroon al Rashid with absolutely no evidence other than poorly concocted arguments.

He was trying to prove that the tomb of Humayun, a Central Asian Turkic ruler who barely lived in India, had been copied from Indian architecture, which is Khajuraho whilst their tombs are Central Asian.

Furthermore, he was trying to say history can be learnt from Harry Potter.

Such non sense was being debated only till I figured that the bunya had tricked me into derailing the thread, which is why I stopped.

Do not for a moment think they won because they can't debate anything without running away or trying to silence the others like they did with me on D F I where I shat on the MODs (who are aggressive and shamelessly racist).

In short, they banned me as they could not debate with me as I exposed their lack of knowledge on the Baluchestan issue and their complete disregard for the sentiments of the Tamils.

 

[gotti]

We allow the type of protest allowed in Pakistan where Govt will declare a holiday and allow renegade mobs to vandalise public property at will.There is something called law and order.



Blah,Why don't you complain to the mods that you are terrified of my superior debating skills.Cry me a river.

As you are clearly not worthy of a reply. I replied to you indirectly. Whoever read the debate that me and you were having had been clearly shown where you stand in your knowledge and process of developing arguments. By far the most comical and worthless opponent I have come across till yet.

You didn't even know about the Protestant history, Renaissance and were throwing terms at me to try to show yourself as some with knowledge and then, make me feel intimidated.

Unfortunately for you, I called your bluff and this is what happened - you were left with absolutely nothing to defend other than continuing on with a nonsensical debate where you were stubborn and shameless enough to not admit your inferior grasp on world events and history.