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Shooting down of Indian MiGs In Kargil

Kind of like being in a mess where one has to transport the dead bodies of their soldiers in garbage trucks and have to import coffins from across the world due to acute shortage. One has to put in perspective what kind of a person literally jumps from one point to the next especially when his own country's official count of casualties on the Pakistani side stands at 1k and the official stance of Pakistan stands at around 430 martyrs I believe.

One also has to literally use the, apparently missing from many Indian's, part of the body called a brain to wonder why would NS literally beg the Americans to bail the country out of something in which it wasn't even officially involved and something which wasn't actually happening on our soil.........how dumb does one have to be to follow Indian BS!!

No,

The kind of mess, where you are too ashamed to even accept, your own dead...forget about arranging a transportation coffin or even a burial , you booby trap the bodies of your dead soldier with IEDs so that may claim lives of Indian soldiers who find them...now thats is really messed up.

Kind of mess, where even your closest friends refuse to come to rescue..despite your top leadership goes and prostrates them selves in front of them( # wink wink# China).

The kind of mess, where no one nation is sure, what kind losses it suffered in the conflict, every vested interest is claiming their o own figures, the army is too ashamed to carry out an inquiry, as it knows the embarrassment it suffers now is nothing compared to humiliation it would suffer after an inquiry.

The kind of mess, where a sovereign nation suffers the humiliation of 'being caught lying with it pants downs'..when RAW exposes Pakistani deceit and released Musharraf's of audio tapes from China.

Musharaff and NS are running from pillar to post visiting China and Americans..would you like me to quote Bruce Reidel account of meeting b/w NS and Clinton or the Taylor Branch's

...Clinton told Branch that he had not invited Sharif to Washington. 'Sharif had invited himself to Washington and Clinton had explicitly told him not to come,' Branch writes.

'"Your army is in the wrong here," he told Sharif. Clinton could not mediate the Kashmir crisis without the consent of both warring nations and India adamantly refused,' Branch continues....

'The Indians saw nothing to mediate. They were winning militarily, and Kashmir belonged to India, period.'

...He refused to receive Sharif at the White House, and met the Pakistani prime minister in the library at Blair House, across the street from his home.

...Bandar called and told me the results of his discussion with Sharif. The PM was
distraught, deeply worried about the direction the crisis was going toward disaster,
but equally worried about his own hold on power and the threat from his military
chiefs who were pressing for a tough stand...

...Sharif then went into a long and predictable defense of the Kashmiri cause. He
appealed to the President to intervene directly to settle the dispute by pressing India.
Much of his argumentation we had heard before — only the U.S. could save a
billion and a half South Asians from war, if only the President would devote 1% of
the effort he gave to the Arab-Israeli dispute to Kashmir it would be resolved, etc.
The President pushed back by reminding Sharif that the U.S. played a role in the
Arab-Israeli conflict because both sides invited it to mediate, that is not the case
with Kashmir. The best approach was the road begun at Lahore, that is direct
contact with India. Pakistan had completely undermined that opening by attacking
at Kargil, it must now retreat before disaster set in.
....

Again the President said that was
all true but the fundamental reality of the day was the Pakistani army and its militant
allies were on the wrong side of the LOC and must withdraw...


Everyone left the room except Sharif, Clinton and myself. The President insisted he
wanted a record of the event. Sharif asked again to be left alone, the President
refused. The Prime Minister then briefed the President on his frantic efforts in the
last month to engage Vajpayee and get a deal that would allow Pakistan to withdraw
with
some saving of face.
He had flown to China to try to get their help to press
India to agree to a fixed timetable for talks to resolve Kashmir.
Sharif’s brief was
confused and vague on many details but he seemed a man possessed with fear of
war.

The Prime Minister told Clinton that he wanted desperately to find a solution that
would allow Pakistan to withdraw with some cover. Without something to point to,
Sharif warned ominously, the fundamentalists in Pakistan would move against him
and this meeting would be his last with Clinton..

...
The President was getting angry. He told Sharif that he had asked repeatedly for
Pakistani help to bring Usama bin Ladin to justice from Afghanistan. Sharif had
promised often to do so but had done nothing. Instead the ISI worked with bin Ladin
and the Taliban to foment terrorism. His draft statement would also mention
Pakistan’s role in supporting terrorists in Afghanistan and India.
Was that what
Sharif wanted, Clinton asked? Did Sharif order the Pakistani nuclear missile force
to prepare for action? Did he realize how crazy that was? You’ve put me in the
middle today, set the U.S. up to fail and I won’t let it happen. Pakistan is messing
with nuclear war.
https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CE0QFjAJ&url=http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/naval-warfare/12242d1224707187-somali-piracy-thread-reidel-1-.pdf&ei=kDC8U-X5H5K8ugS21YLAAw&usg=AFQjCNGHD08TiLMOHO8ToiyPDg0FMmKYVw&sig2=LKNO4f8ITs31aNX-HE-HZw&bvm=bv.70138588,d.c2E
Bruce Riedel on Kargil
When Nawaz Sharif gave Bill Clinton a hard time over Kargil - Rediff.com India News
 
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India even shadow their mistakes from other countries. this is time to improve your mistakes and then come face to face for a challenge . Every body knows Pakistani Fighter never fear of anyone. And nobody defeat this force .
 
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India learned lesson not to make same mistake again and good example of Mumbai attacks, they turned around back. :tup:
 
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Yes we took the lesson from Mumbai.

Now see what is going on in your economic capital Karanchi which I heard contributes 40% of your GDP .

I am from Karachi, know the city which is doing great. Now you crying emotionally?
 
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India even shadow their mistakes from other countries. this is time to improve your mistakes and then come face to face for a challenge . Every body knows Pakistani Fighter never fear of anyone. And nobody defeat this force .
Pakistan sneaked in Militia in 48 to capture Kashmir, in 65 again sneaked in SSG, I guess PA learned so much from these two successful attempts and experiences that it again sneaked in PA regulars in Kargil. Kabhi mardo ki tarah bhi aa jaya karo maidan mein !!!
 
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A army better than the other side which staged fake battles or falsify kargil accounts to downplay their shameless defeat. Atleast Pakistan Army staged real battles, caught you off guard, If your Army chief had balls, he would have stepped foot on conquered territory, a.k.a Tiger hill just like General Musharraf did ;)



Hijrou ki tarha 84 mai kis nai Siachen par qabza kia tha ? 71 mai kis nai Hijrou ki tarha Mukti bahini kai through proxy war laari the ?
Hijrou ki tarha? Choudhriyo ki tarah zor pe qabza kia tha aur aaj bhi hai ... we didn't stepped down.
Why to waste our precious blood when we have the canon fodder to do our dirty work, but when the time required we did stepped in yet again like a Choudhary and decided the matter in our favor that too permanently.
 
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PA doesn't have any achievement to her credit... that is why they have to falsified the report. what kind of army is this who doesn't take dead soldiers back and called them mujahideen and disowned them.

A army better than the other side which staged fake battles or falsify kargil accounts to downplay their shameless defeat. Atleast Pakistan Army staged real battles, caught you off guard, If your Army chief had balls, he would have stepped foot on conquered territory, a.k.a Tiger hill just like General Musharraf did ;)

Pakistan sneaked in Militia in 48 to capture Kashmir, in 65 again sneaked in SSG, I guess PA learned so much from these two successful attempts and experiences that it again sneaked in PA regulars in Kargil. Kabhi mardo ki tarah bhi aa jaya karo maidan mein !!!

Hijrou ki tarha 84 mai kis nai Siachen par qabza kia tha ? 71 mai kis nai Hijrou ki tarha Mukti bahini kai through proxy war laari the ?
 
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No,

The kind of mess, where you are too ashamed to even accept, your own dead...forget about arranging a transportation coffin or even a burial , you booby trap the bodies of your dead soldier with IEDs so that may claim lives of Indian soldiers who find them...now thats is really messed up.

Kind of mess, where even your closest friends refuse to come to rescue..despite your top leadership goes and prostrates them selves in front of them( # wink wink# China).

The kind of mess, where no one nation is sure, what kind losses it suffered in the conflict, every vested interest is claiming their o own figures, the army is too ashamed to carry out an inquiry, as it knows the embarrassment it suffers now is nothing compared to humiliation it would suffer after an inquiry.

The kind of mess, where a sovereign nation suffers the humiliation of 'being caught lying with it pants downs'..when RAW exposes Pakistani deceit and released Musharraf's of audio tapes from China.

Musharaff and NS are running from pillar to post visiting China and Americans..would you like me to quote Bruce Reidel account of meeting b/w NS and Clinton or the Taylor Branch's



Sab batay ek tarf, If your army was winning militarily, why the need arise to stage fake battles or to falsify kargil accounts? Booby trap stories are just to make you people feel good how kind and good your army which it was not. So stop believing in those feel good fake stories

Hijrou ki tarha? Choudhriyo ki tarah zor pe qabza kia tha aur aaj bhi hai ... we didn't stepped down.
Why to waste our precious blood when we have the canon fodder to do our dirty work, but when the time required we did stepped in yet again like a Choudhary and decided the matter in our favor that too permanently.

Choudriyo ki tarha? More like shoodrou ki tarha dude.
 
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Hijrou ki tarha 84 mai kis nai Siachen par qabza kia tha ? 71 mai kis nai Hijrou ki tarha Mukti bahini kai through proxy war laari the ?
I would have accepted the high lighted part if we have not taken over siachen, after you went shopping.

Who where Mukti bahini,they where your own people.
 
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Provide a link, to which falsified Kargil account are you referring?

Check my post on page 11 or 12

I would have accepted the high lighted part if we have not taken over siachen, after you went shopping.

Who where Mukti bahini,they where your own people.

An intelligence lapse on our part, just like you couldnt detect the infiltration

Who were Kashmiri Mujhaidin who are fighting indian army? Your own Indian occupied Kashmir people
 
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Sab batay ek tarf, If your army was winning militarily, why the need arise to stage fake battles or to falsify kargil accounts? Booby trap stories are just to make you people feel good how kind and good your army which it was not. So stop believing in those feel good fake stories



Choudriyo ki tarha? More like shoodrou ki tarha dude.
lol ok, if that makes you feel a little better !! :enjoy:
 
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so you agree that you guys left with us no other choice but to take over siachen


Why would a kashmiri fight american army???

Feeling is mutual, you left us with no choice but to recapture our Area.

Check edited post
 
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Check my post on page 11 or 12

This is what happen when limited intelligence meets a desire for propaganda...one ends up making fool of themselves.

"Brigadier Singh, who led the Batalik-based 70 Infantry Brigade during the war, had petitioned the Delhi high court in 2006, complaining that his performance during the conflict had been assessed incorrectly, which eventually cost him a war medal and also led to his supersession while being considered for promotion to the rank of Major General.

Brigadier Singh bemoaned that the report of Lt Gen Kishan Pal, then General Officer Commanding (GOC) of 15 Corps, who oversaw operations in that sector, not only cost him a war medal but also deprived him of a promotion.


Observing that the report of a person who writes ACRs in a biased manner could not be allowed to be sustained, it observed that the then GOC was not favourably motivated towards Brigadier Singh and had attempted to tailor the report belittling his achievements.
In his plea, Brigadier Singh said he had contended that in the post-Kargil operations report, Lt Gen Pal had falsely shown four of his most successful battalions under a fictitious headquarters commanded by the then deputy general officer of 3 Infantry Division, Brigadier Ashok Duggal."

Armed forces tribunal indicts Lt Gen for fake Kargil battle accounts - Economic Times

Do you even understand, what it mean??

It is about Brigadier Singh, alleging that Lt Gen Pal had a personal grudge againt him costed him a war medal, by showing the victories under his command under a fictitious hdq..which Fake battle are you talking about?
 
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