Shoot me, but I still won't sing Vande Mataram, says Muslim leader

[padamchen]

Islam didn't adopt anything .......... its message is still pure, the followers couldn't break the age old shackles and somehow felt the need to mold it to satisfy their insecurities.

Bowing to parents in real or not raising any objection to what they say is totally subcontinent thing (out of respect)............. I can quote example from Quran where adopted son of Messenger (Peace be upon him) didn't obey His (Peace be upon him) advice. Islam is about freedom of humans and it doesn't support any action that translates into direct slavery or symbols of being enslaved .... be it words related to a piece of land.

The way you guys do sajdah and hold your hands while praying, across the world, all Muslims, across racial national ethnic lines, is completely Zoroastrian.

It is not limited to only Iranis. But EVERY Muslim.

If it were just Persians moulding Islam (corrupting, per you) to their culture congruent ways, then it would not have spread uniformly around the world as THE de rigeur method of prayer.

Unless it is your contention that once the Arabs converted the Persians, the Persians and only the Persians converted the rest of the Muslim world.

Which is clearly not what history tells us.

Therefore one must surmise it is the original, and originated from the Arabs.

Who were subservient under the Persians for millennia, either under direct rule or vassalship.

So the influence.

This has been written in great detail by many scholars.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

Shoot me, but I still won't sing Vande Mataram, says Muslim leader

and . . . I will definitely cry about non integration of my community in the mainstream !

 

[padamchen]

P.S. I wish you could see how Zoroastrians pray inside fire temples to understand what I'm saying.

 

[unbiasedopinion]

Although its harmless saying but bowing is only allowed for GOD in Islam.
A true Muslim cannot bow to any one except ALLAH.

Too literal meaning is being devised out of this. This means Mother we bow to you (as in respect), one doesn't bow physically while singing this song like during namaz.
BTW, all the muslims who stayed in India stayed because they dont want to follow the extreme Islamic following, hence they opted for India. Vande Mataram is not a new song, its been there since 1870s. These muslim leaders are trying to gain mileage by using religion on these small issues.

Its wrong choice of Indian to choose such national anthem which their own citizens cant chant.

They should change it to praise o mother or salam o mother e.t.c
Bowing not allowed.

It is not national anthem. It is national song. Moreover there was no such issue earlier, offlate these small muslim leaders are using religion to create more divide.

 

[ranjeet]

Do you really want to go there?

Cheers, Doc

Today its vande matram... tomorrow it will be national anthem that they will have a problem with. They will say they have a problem with "bharat bhagyavidhata".

 

[I.R.A]

The way you guys do sajdah and hold your hands while praying, across the world, all Muslims, across racial national ethnic lines, is completely Zoroastrian.

Therefore one must surmise it is the original, and originated from the Arabs.

Who were subservient under the Persians for millennia, either under direct rule or vassalship.

So the influence.

This has been written in great detail by many scholars.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. I wish you could see how Zoroastrians pray inside fire temples to understand what I'm saying.

Post a video of how Zoroastrians pray inside the temples.

And its not only prostrating, there are other parts to the whole ritual .......... the symbolic worship of one and only ALLAH all mighty.

Palms upturned and spread is an action of praying ..........

And Pre Islam Arabs were idolaters don't know how that was an influence of Persians per your claims.

 

[padamchen]

Post a video of how Zoroastrians pray inside the temples.

And its not only prostrating, there are other parts to the whole ritual .......... the symbolic worship of one and only ALLAH all mighty.

Palms upturned and spread is an action of praying ..........

And Pre Islam Arabs were idolaters don't know how that was an influence of Persians per your claims.

I can't do that because it is strictly forbidden.

But the umbar (raised plinth) before the inner sanctum sanctorum where the Atash padshah is housed and only our mobeds and dasturs can enter, we essentially do your sajdah there touching our forehead to the umbar (I've seen you guys have some round stones?).

Then we pray, eyes closed (or open in supplication) with our hands up and in front exactly how Muslims around the world do it.

What we do not do is the Muslim movement of the head to one side. That seems purely Islamic.

Then we put Sukhad (sandalwood) in the silver tray, and apply a pinch of the silver ashes from the holy fire on our forehead (and touch to our throat). Which we wipe off the moment we step outside (for fear of pollution).

There are many other rituals as well. The holy well with the fish and the turtles. The lighting of the glass diyas for departed souls.

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

I can't do that because it is strictly forbidden.

But the umbar (raised plinth) before the inner sanctum sanctorum where the Atash padshah is housed and only our mobeds and dasturs can enter, we essentially do your sajdah there touching our forehead to the umbar (I've seen you guys have some round stones?).

Then we pray, eyes closed (or open in supplication) with our hands up and in front exactly how Muslims around the world do it.

What we do not do is the Muslim movement of the head to one side. That seems purely Islamic.

Then we put Sukhad (sandalwood) in the silver tray, and apply a pinch of the silver ashes from the holy fire on our forehead (and touch to our throat). Which we wipe off the moment we step outside (for fear of pollution).

There are many other rituals as well. The holy well with the fish and the turtles. The lighting of the glass diyas for departed souls.

Cheers, Doc

O bai q mujay molvio say marwany pay tulla hy? So called Islamic history, the events, the rituals, the hear say all was written by Iranians, even the interpretation of Quran that nobody dares to question / challenge / amend .............. I have stopped discussing this ..... people feel insecure when this topic is touched ....... Umer the second Caliph before going into Persia always wished that a wall of fire and water would separate Persia and newly conquered Iraq so the Persians won't come here and we won't go there....... living in today's times and opening your mind to question the illogical practices, you can very well understand and appreciate that Umer was a visionary man ........... but destiny had its own plans.

 

[t_for_talli]

Although its harmless saying but bowing is only allowed for GOD in Islam.
A true Muslim cannot bow to any one except ALLAH.

In Hindi there is a saying "Baat ka Batangad"

If Pakistani can say "Pakistan Zindabad", if Bangladeshi can say "Jai Bangla" , I dont see a problem with "Vande Matram"

 

[StandForInsaf]

In Hindi there is a saying "Baat ka Batangad"

If Pakistani can say "Pakistan Zindabad", if Bangladeshi can say "Jai Bangla" , I dont see a problem with "Vande Matram"

They can say jai hind or zindabad but vande matram is haram.

 

[padamchen]

O bai q mujay molvio say marwany pay tulla hy? So called Islamic history, the events, the rituals, the hear say all was written by Iranians, even the interpretation of Quran that nobody dares to question / challenge / amend .............. I have stopped discussing this ..... people feel insecure when this topic is touched ....... Umer the second Caliph before going into Persia always wished that a wall of fire and water would separate Persia and newly conquered Iraq so the Persians won't come here and we won't go there....... living in today's times and opening your mind to question the illogical practices, you can very well understand and appreciate that Umer was a visionary man ........... but destiny had its own plans.

See how Hindus hold their hands.

See how far far distant originally Semitic Christians hold their hands.

See how Busdhists hold their hands.

I don't know much about the equally private and secretive Jews.

I'm beginning to see your point.

If so. Its massive ....

But then you will also concede that Iranians are equal to the Arabs in the move to lead and mould the Muslim world.

Coz it seems that it goes all the way back to Islam's earliest birth days.

Cheers, Doc

 

[t_for_talli]

They can say jai hind or zindabad but vande matram is haram.

Its open to interpretation

For example Jai can be some thing like Zindabad, Jai is also bringing hands together a posture during hindu form of worship,
But Bangladeshi muslims donot have issue with Jai

Similarly Vande Matram can be

- I praise my motherland
- I bow to my motherland
and also I worship my motherland

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I can't do that because it is strictly forbidden.

But the umbar (raised plinth) before the inner sanctum sanctorum where the Atash padshah is housed and only our mobeds and dasturs can enter, we essentially do your sajdah there touching our forehead to the umbar (I've seen you guys have some round stones?).

Then we pray, eyes closed (or open in supplication) with our hands up and in front exactly how Muslims around the world do it.

What we do not do is the Muslim movement of the head to one side. That seems purely Islamic.

Then we put Sukhad (sandalwood) in the silver tray, and apply a pinch of the silver ashes from the holy fire on our forehead (and touch to our throat). Which we wipe off the moment we step outside (for fear of pollution).

There are many other rituals as well. The holy well with the fish and the turtles. The lighting of the glass diyas for departed souls.

Cheers, Doc

By the way
You should NEVER Forget that it was Muslims who drove you Parsis out of Iran
and Hindus gave you refuge in India ; you have flourished Here
Because of Hindus

 

[StandForInsaf]

Its open to interpretation

For example Jai can be some thing like Zindabad, Jai is also bringing hands together a posture during hindu form of worship,
But Bangladeshi muslims donot have issue with Jai

Similarly Vande Matram can be

- I praise my motherland
- I bow to my motherland
and also I worship my motherland

bringing hands is not prohibited.

 

[I.R.A]

I don't know much about the equally private and secretive Jews.

Their women wear burqa, they have the same sort of funeral ritual up to some extent, they eat Kosher and etc etc

I'm beginning to see your point.

If so. Its massive ....

Yes I accept the influence is massive, systematically achieved and implemented. You cannot win against it without getting declared infidel ...........

But then you will also concede that Iranians are equal to the Arabs in the move to lead and mould the Muslim world.

Coz it seems that it goes all the way back to Islam's earliest birth days.

Cheers, Doc

Whats the point of molding the world when both narratives in their current form are far from the real message? Should it matter to anyone say like me? An Egyptian cleric sitting in biggest university of Egypt can come up with the most ridiculous fatwa .......... and all I can do in my personal capacity is to take a deep breath and mourn our collective Muslim intellect.

It doesn't go back to earliest days of Islam but three centuries after ........... that's where the division starts, story telling gets its foothold and kings are made to exploit the common people.