Shoot me, but I still won't sing Vande Mataram, says Muslim leader

[EndangeredSpecies]

Anyone into Sufism would answer that. Spiritual conscience is there in many different forms through every religion.

What exactly is Sufism? I have heard it is a major Islamic movement and part of religious identity of Kashmir. Any good source which explain Sufism in detail. Also what does Taṣawwuf means?

 

[El Sidd]

The definition of "spiritual consciousness" varies between various religions. Abrahamic religions defines it as degree of "submission" of the mind or consciousness to god or to gods "will".


In Dharmic religions, spiritual consciousness means awareness of something BEYOND the mind and consciousness. It means Super consciousness. The state of "Samadhi" means reaching a state where your consciousness merges with the consciousness of god. You see all , you know all, you understand everything.


This concept of "becoming" god is Blasphemy in islam.


Study of the influence of planets on the Human body is part of Hindu Astrology. Its debatable if the universe affect us or if the universe is just a giant cosmic clock which helps us watch our moods at different times.

Wahadatul wajood is a taboo for many Muslims.

But how is what you are claiming and what Muslims claim the same with just different ways of understanding it?

What exactly is Sufism? I have heard it is a major Islamic movement and part of religious identity of Kashmir. Any good source which explain Sufism in detail. Also what does Taṣawwuf means?

No idea man.

I have only rudimentary knowledge of religion.

@SOUTHie mind indulging

 

[Bibo]

Wahadatul wajood is a taboo for many Muslims.

But how is what you are claiming and what Muslims claim the same with just different ways of understanding it?

Your said it yourself.

Wahadatul wajood is Taboo for many muslims while that is the ultimate goal for any and all Hindus.


This makes islam and hinduism exact opposite of each other.

 

[El Sidd]

Your said it yourself.

Wahadatul wajood is Taboo for many muslims while that is the ultimate goal for any and all Hindus.


This makes islam and hinduism exact opposite of each other.

Two different.
Not opposite

Fundamental difference.

Question is do you see them as opposite?

 

[Bibo]

Two different.
Not opposite

Fundamental difference.

Question is do you see them as opposite?

Its the very definition of opposite.

One says you CANNOT do it (islam), one says you MUST do it (hinduism).

 

[El Sidd]

Its the very definition of opposite.

One says you CANNOT do it (islam), one says you MUST do it (hinduism).

That can or must points are debatable since its a matter of opinion.

The can and must debate are more intra religious debate than an inter religious issues. If you take my POV

 

[Bibo]

That can or must points are debatable since its a matter of opinion.

The can and must debate are more intra religious debate than an inter religious issues. If you take my POV

But such debates itself is not permitted as a matter of fact.

To do so itself is committing shirk.

Now if you are a man of integrity, tell me the meaning of the book by one of your greatest Sufi saint Ibn Arabi.

The book is called "Kunh mā lā Budda lil-MurīdMinhu"

 

[El Sidd]

But such debates itself is not permitted as a matter of fact.

To do so itself is committing shirk.

Now if you are a man of integrity, tell me the meaning of the book by one of your greatest Sufi saint Ibn Arabi.

The book is called "Kunh mā lā Budda lil-MurīdMinhu"

Lol not really.

Those who are interested debate freely. I think you are unaware of how a Pakistani society is.

Its not a rampant religious society. These make part of education system as well


Anyhow as I said I am not a religious guy. So integrity is thrown out the window lol

Ibn e Arabi is quite popular in sub continent. Even yussuf hallaj and anal haq debate.

You have a very fox news type image of Pakistanis or Islam in general.

 

[Bibo]

Lol not really.

Those who are interested debate freely. I think you are unaware of how a Pakistani society is.

Its not a rampant religious society. These make part of education system as well

Anyhow as I said I am not a religious guy. So integrity is thrown out the window lol

Ibn e Arabi is quite popular in sub continent. Even yussuf hallaj and anal haq debate.

You have a very fox news type image of Pakistanis or Islam in general.

LOL. You 'debate' under the shadow of the death penalty for Apostasy. So forgive me for not taking your "debates" seriously.

What you call "serious" debate is what passes for school yard debate in India.

It is interesting to note that you have refused to even translate what "Kunh mā lā Budda lil-MurīdMinhu " means while seeking to understand what "Vande Mataram" means


My understanding of islam and pakistan has come from observation and reading about it. Unlike pakistan who will be hard pressed to find a hindu much less have a hindu open up to him, I have had many opportunities to interact with Muslim in India and understand the mindset. I suspect I understand pakistan a LOT better than you can ever understand a Hindu or India.

 

[El Sidd]

LOL. You 'debate' under the shadow of the death penalty for Apostasy. So forgive me for not taking your "debates" seriously.

What you call "serious" debate is what passes for school yard debate in India.

It is interesting to note that you have refused to even translate what "Kunh mā lā Budda lil-MurīdMinhu " means while seeking to understand what "Vande Mataram" means


My understanding of islam and pakistan has come from observation and reading about it. Unlike pakistan who will be hard pressed to find a hindu much less have a hindu open up to him, I have had many opportunities to interact with Muslim in India and understand the mindset. I suspect I understand pakistan a LOT better than you can ever understand a Hindu or India.

I spent my childhood in Sindh. Just so you know.

There are ways to discuss the matter at hand with respect and admiration or simply patience.

Pakistanis take a philosophical pragmatic approach to religion.

But you will not trust me since you think i am opposite to you.

I seriously don't know that book dude. As i said. Not a religious guy

 

[salimpheku]

Pakistanis take a philosophical pragmatic approach to religion.

Sorry, that was extremely funny!

 

[El Sidd]

Sorry, that was extremely funny!

I am glad you smiled. You are always bitter somehow

Sorry, that was extremely funny!

Mohamed says even a smile can be an act of charity.

So you are generous indeed phenku sahib

 

[Bibo]

I spent my childhood in Sindh. Just so you know.

There are ways to discuss the matter at hand with respect and admiration or simply patience.

Pakistanis take a philosophical pragmatic approach to religion.

But you will not trust me since you think i am opposite to you.

I seriously don't know that book dude. As i said. Not a religious guy

Any approach to religious debates under the shadow of death is always "philosophical and pragmatic". That is just another way of saying you are careful about what you say, to who you say it, and how you say it. Which is exactly my point.

I do not need to "trust" you, only listen to you and make my own mind based on what you say and what you do not say.

There is plenty of literature about Buddhist philosophies in islam which went on to form "sufism". Kitab al-Budasaf, Al-Shahrastani, Kitab Al-Budd, Kitab al-Buldan , Kitab al-bad wa-'l-ta 'rich, etc.

In the 8th century Caliph al-Mahdi and Caliph al-Rashid invited Buddhist scholars from India and Nava Vihara in Balkh to "House of Knowledge" ( Bayt al-Hikmat ) in Baghdad. He instructed the Buddhist students to help translate medical and astronomical texts from Sanskrit into Arabic.


That is the story of sufism.

 

[El Sidd]

Any approach to religious debates under the shadow of death is always "philosophical and pragmatic". That is just another way of saying you are careful about what you say, to who you say it, and how you say it. Which is exactly my point.

I do not need to "trust" you, only listen to you and make my own mind based on what you say and what you do not say.

There is plenty of literature about Buddhist philosophies in islam which went on to form "sufism". Kitab al-Budasaf, Al-Shahrastani, Kitab Al-Budd, Kitab al-Buldan , Kitab al-bad wa-'l-ta 'rich, etc.

In the 8th century Caliph al-Mahdi and Caliph al-Rashid invited Buddhist scholars from India and Nava Vihara in Balkh to "House of Knowledge" ( Bayt al-Hikmat ) in Baghdad. He instructed the Buddhist students to help translate medical and astronomical texts from Sansakerta into Arabic.


That is the story of sufism.

That is just factually incorrect.

Arabs were practicing Hinduism or form of it before the 8th century.

Every civilisation came up with the same idea the same time.

It's a human instinct philosophy.

By the 8th century. Philosophy only peaked.

Even Muslims cry about the Mongols sack of Baghdad for its library only not for the fact Moslems lost.

 

[Bibo]

That is just factually incorrect.

Arabs were practicing Hinduism or form of it before the 8th century.

Every civilisation came up with the same idea the same time.

It's a human instinct philosophy.

By the 8th century. Philosophy only peaked.

Even Muslims cry about the Mongols sack of Baghdad for its library only not for the fact Moslems lost.

Arabs had their own version of paganism which was more close to Egyptian forms of worship than Hinduism.

You can probably identify the two aspects of islam from this images. The "Moon" and your form of prayer.

Allah itself came from Semitic El and his wife Allat. Your form of burial and belief about rising from the dead came from ancient Egyptian beliefs which existed for thousands of years.

There is nothing remotely Hindu about it.

The Egyptian civilization which was the dominant civilization of the time in that region, was the chief influence for ALL Abrahamic religions.