Shenyang J-15 aircraft carrier-based aircraft

[GR!FF!N]

Problem is, china cannot afford (not financially) to operate catapult carrier until PLAN had operate some overseas ports, big ship and fleet require heck a lot of resource, and i really think they could not do that anytime soon.

So for the time being, Chinese CVs are gonna operate in defensive level and I would consider the need of operating J-15 is a bit overkill I would actually go for MiG-29 or naval used j-10 for now

why are you saying that China can't afford to operate Catapult carrier??please elaborate..I heard that very next AC will have catapult.

 

[jhungary]

Perhaps, I don't know much about the operating costs of an AC so I won't really argue. Having said that, China has long term ambitions for it's navy and air force, so I wouldn't be surprised if they continue regardless of the costs. In their minds, the awards may out weight the costs in the long term.

Who knows? Anything thing is possible.

I think you failed to catch my point

Indeed everything and anything is possible, should the Chinese test/uses large fleet air arms WHEN they uses large CAT carrier? But not now?

I know Liaoning is a trial carrier and all but they run a risk to learn the carrier tactic using the wrong gear....

 

[nomi007]

kindly post cockpit image
of j-15

 

[That Guy]

I think you failed to catch my point

Indeed everything and anything is possible, should the Chinese test/uses large fleet air arms WHEN they uses large CAT carrier? But not now?

I know Liaoning is a trial carrier and all but they run a risk to learn the carrier tactic using the wrong gear....

Perhaps I did. Again, I know little to nothing about ACs, so I'll just trust you on this.

 

[jhungary]

why are you saying that China can't afford to operate Catapult carrier??please elaborate..I heard that very next AC will have catapult.

There are operation parameter on running a catapult carrier, one parameter is for them to be constantly resupply, one of them being jet fuel and fresh water

Unlike the US and france(the Brazilian ac were x-French), most country opt for smaller STOVL/STOBAR carrier out of resource

It would be ok in peace time, as you only need to pay for port service, however, come war when you are restricted from neutral/enemy port, where would you get your resupply? For that you will need an oversea port or friend port to do the resupply for you, or your fleet is stranded

The larger the ship you get (catapulted ship are usually bigger) the more resource you need, hence it will reduce your sea worthy day unless you have allied port, or your own oversea port

Of course, they can run around their own coast with a large catapulted carrier, it's their money, I didn't say Chinese cannot do it, I said it's an overkill if they do that now

 

[Beast]

The article says the news comes from SMN, which means the news is from Chinese source. You are
100% free to question it's authenticity. However, you cannot just blabber that is from Taiwan so
it's wrong and this is from China so it's right.

If you see any miscalculation in the article or any factual mistake, prove that it is otherwise with
constructive evidence instead of ranting on source.



Hell what??? Atleast put things in perspective! Russia already has operational Su-33s and they have
been successfully operating from Kuznetsov for many years, even before India ordered MiG-29K!

What do you mean Russians switch to MiG-29K to save R&D cost? Su-33 is already operational! Where
is the need for new R&D for MiG-29K unless the latter is a better proposition?

Maintaining an existing fighter is a lot cheaper than buying a new fighter, new training equipment,
new logistics line, and new maintenance procedures. The only reason why Russia would switch
to MiG-29K is because it is a better plane when it comes to carrier-based ops.



Still they supply the engines for carrier-based J-15s. So they are still supporting your program and you
are paying them money for it, eventhough you did not buy Su-33.



First, prove that it is rubbish.

You seems not to know how military works? You simply think the old Su-33 airframe just get a radar switch and magically it can work without going trial and test of more prototype. don't tell me all this dont involved money? Definitely the airframe need to be updated to handle air to ground capabilities, newer material that works better.

Finally, I think I do not remind you, it will be cheaper to operate an updated aircraft which development fee already paid by some one and just built more airframe for its own existing carrier. Plus all the required maintenance fee Russian needed for their Mig-29K shall also be paid under the development fee from India.

I know what I am talking about. If you can't accept the reality Russia will be happier accepting updated Su-33 if money is not a problem so be it.

 

[Beast]

@Beast
actually this same news is all over the internet.I atleast got several sites quoting the same news..is it this???

the truth is,Su-33 aka J-15 can't fully utilize its maximum weight from taking off via a Ski-Ramp..only solution is catapult and hopefully,china will deploy it in its new Carriers..

This video says all the good things about J-15. Does not bring down anything of J-15. As I say there is no such criticism from mainland China.

 

[Genesis]

There are operation parameter on running a catapult carrier, one parameter is for them to be constantly resupply, one of them being jet fuel and fresh water

Unlike the US and france(the Brazilian ac were x-French), most country opt for smaller STOVL/STOBAR carrier out of resource

It would be ok in peace time, as you only need to pay for port service, however, come war when you are restricted from neutral/enemy port, where would you get your resupply? For that you will need an oversea port or friend port to do the resupply for you, or your fleet is stranded

The larger the ship you get (catapulted ship are usually bigger) the more resource you need, hence it will reduce your sea worthy day unless you have allied port, or your own oversea port

Of course, they can run around their own coast with a large catapulted carrier, it's their money, I didn't say Chinese cannot do it, I said it's an overkill if they do that now

I just have one question, India will have a catapult carrier, it's size is still relatively small, but they will have it. Now, do you suppose Indians have more influence around the world then we do?

second, the Chinese government always plans ahead, do you suppose they are not working towards the supply problem now to make sure the future is secure? Deals with Africa, South Asian nations, ASEAN and Arab nations are not done for fun.

Also consider the Chinese objective, before 2030, we won't go out of our immediate oceans for war. IE the China seas. At least we won't actively sought it out. So the scope of operation is different than US.

Any Chinese carrier to come out of production won't happen before 2018, if that. So this now concept is way too premature.

 

[jhungary]

I just have one question, India will have a catapult carrier, it's size is still relatively small, but they will have it. Now, do you suppose Indians have more influence around the world then we do?

second, the Chinese government always plans ahead, do you suppose they are not working towards the supply problem now to make sure the future is secure? Deals with Africa, South Asian nations, ASEAN and Arab nations are not done for fun.

Also consider the Chinese objective, before 2030, we won't go out of our immediate oceans for war. IE the China seas. At least we won't actively sought it out. So the scope of operation is different than US.

Any Chinese carrier to come out of production won't happen before 2018, if that. So this now concept is way too premature.

Let me answer your question with a question.

Brazil ALREADY had a catapult carrier now, does that mean they have bigger World stage influence than India and China combine??

As i said, and you quoted, you can do whatever the hell you like with your money, you can get a catapult carrier now, or you can get 12, China have the means and money to build it, just what are you doing to do with the one or 12 Catapult carrier with? Beside running up and down the chinese coast before 2030??

There are PROPER ways to train up to what you want, there are STUPID way to train up to what you want, my point being, China should wait until the first catapult carrier to induce J-15 with it, not to running it half-arsed with a ski-jump carrier. What are you going to expect from learning with plane running half of whatever it should be??

As i said, you fork the bill, you can do whatever the heck you want, even if that means you are wasting your own money, hey, that's fine by me

 

[Malik Usman]

Please do not mix Indian military indigenous failure with China own domestic military effort. Trying to class us with Indian is an insult.

Our military development effort is far superior and successful. Didn't we just bag an important air defense deal from Turkey that even US and Russia cant compete with us.

The local media even given with freedom to pose will hard to find fault with China military production effort.

Just ignore them...they can't live without their habit...

 

[Gessler]

You seems not to know how military works? You simply think the old Su-33 airframe just get a radar switch and magically it can work without going trial and test of more prototype. don't tell me all this dont involved money? Definitely the airframe need to be updated to handle air to ground capabilities, newer material that works better.

Your ignorance amazes me.

Finally, I think I do not remind you, it will be cheaper to operate an updated aircraft which development fee already paid by some one and just built more airframe for its own existing carrier. Plus all the required maintenance fee Russian needed for their Mig-29K shall also be paid under the development fee from India.

First of all, MiG-29K was already modified enough to sustain carrier-based take off & landing with a meaningful weapon payload much before India ordered that plane. Here's a pic of one of the first -29K prototypes undergoing flight tests on Kuznetsov in the Soviet Union days -

MiG-29K Testing

Pity, isn't it? You think India funded MiG-29K development? Truth is that MiG-29K was already developed by 1991, without any Indian funding or contribution in any way.

India only paid for the 45 x MiG-29Ks that Indian Navy ordered for INS Vikramaditya (ex-Gorshkov) and new INS Vikrant (IAC-1), and some for maritime strike roles.

Secondly, India does not pay for any MiG-29K ordered by the Russian Navy, Russian govt. does that. India does not pay for Russian Navy's maintenance fee either, what rubbish are you talking?

All that India has done, is to select the MiG-29K over the Su-33 after a careful analysis of which plane would be a better bet for carrier-based operations. Obviously MiG-29K emerged as a better proposition in the overall when compared to Su-33.

Now what happended is that when India ordered 16+29 MiG-29Ks, the MiG production line for this plane was activated, therefore even Russia was now free to order MiG-29K, which they always wanted to do but could not because ordering a new plane and changing all the maintenance & logistics lines would be quite costly.

I know what I am talking about. If you can't accept the reality Russia will be happier accepting updated Su-33 if money is not a problem so be it.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

At one point, you say Russia could not buy MiG-29K because it was too costly, and that India had paid for development of -29K, so now Russia too is ordering -29K because cost burden has reduced.

At another point, you say that maintaining/modifying Su-33 is more costly that's why Russia is buying -29K.

What is your point? If Su-33 is bad, so is J-15. Is there any performance-related thing that
J-15 can do that Su-33 cannot? Anything?

 

[gambit]

There are operation parameter on running a catapult carrier, one parameter is for them to be constantly resupply, one of them being jet fuel and fresh water

Unlike the US and france(the Brazilian ac were x-French), most country opt for smaller STOVL/STOBAR carrier out of resource

It would be ok in peace time, as you only need to pay for port service, however, come war when you are restricted from neutral/enemy port, where would you get your resupply? For that you will need an oversea port or friend port to do the resupply for you, or your fleet is stranded

The larger the ship you get (catapulted ship are usually bigger) the more resource you need, hence it will reduce your sea worthy day unless you have allied port, or your own oversea port

Of course, they can run around their own coast with a large catapulted carrier, it's their money, I didn't say Chinese cannot do it, I said it's an overkill if they do that now

The only long term strategic goal I see for this -- a fleet of carriers capable of launching fully laden combat aircrafts -- is for overwhelming regional dominance, not necessarily global presence to challenge US dominance. These Chinese carriers would be quickly resupplied from Chinese home ports.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

The only long term strategic goal I see for this -- a fleet of carriers capable of launching fully laden combat aircrafts -- is for overwhelming regional dominance, not necessarily global presence to challenge US dominance. These Chinese carriers would be quickly resupplied from Chinese home ports.

Regional alone? That they can easily do with Shore based bases right?
Tell me do think that the Russians deliberately didnt use Su33 for this specific reason?

 

[Lightningbolt]

Our strategy is regional dominance first, then global dominance.
Layer by layer, step by step, we are building our economic, financial, technological, military, political, cultural and information power to reclaim what is rightfully ours.

By 2030 we will have regional dominance and by 2049 we will have global dominance.
Post-2049 we start the beginning of the 1000 year Chinese rule....the Chinese millennium!!!

The sleeping dragon is awakening from our 500 year sleep.
We are shaking the world as we awaken.

This is our dream, our destiny, our birthright!

 

[jhungary]

Our strategy is regional dominance first, then global dominance.
Layer by layer, step by step, we are building our economic, financial, technological, military, political, cultural and information power to reclaim what is rightfully ours.

By 2030 we will have regional dominance and by 2049 we will have global dominance.
Post-2049 we start the beginning of the 1000 year Chinese rule....the Chinese millennium!!!

The sleeping dragon is awakening from our 500 year sleep.
We are shaking the world as we awaken.

This is our dream, our destiny, our birthright!

Had anyone told you yet?

The world is going to end on 2-20-2020

I am afraid you are going to dominate nothing....