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Shenyang J-15 aircraft carrier-based aircraft

What do you mean Jaamati? You have a 1tn$ economy at the least? 5tn$ PPP stats? Infact your economy has junk bond stats.
My maid here in Delhi is Bangladeshi and she tells me about the shitty environment and job oppurtunities in her country. She lives in a slum on the outskirts.

Tell you something? Indian maids are no less than what you have described. You want me to describe how I treated my Indian maid while I was in India? I treated her as equal, like a man would treat another human being, but you, my friend, you are a F***ing racist. You treat your lower cast and lower individual like a coolie and that makes you a Fu***ng racist. I hope you are proud to be one. You might want want to say that to my face. I'll smash your face in if you do.
 
bilde


TAIPEI — In an unusual departure for mainland Chinese-language media,
the Beijing-based Sina Military Network (SMN) criticized the capabilities of
the carrier-borne J-15 Flying Shark as nothing more than a “flopping fish.”

On Sept. 22, the state-controlled China Daily Times reported the new
aircraft carrier Liaoning had just finished a three-month voyage and
conducted over 100 sorties of “various aircraft,” of which the J-15 “took
off and landed on the carrier with maximum load and various weapons.”
This report was also carried on the official Liberation Army Daily.

Contradicting any report by official military or government media is unusual
in China given state control of the media.

What sounded more like a rant than analysis, SMN, on Sept. 23, reported
the new J-15 was incapable of flying from the Liaoning with heavy weapons,
“effectively crippling its attack range and firepower.”

The fighter can take off and land on the carrier with two YJ-83K anti-ship
missiles, two PL-8 air-to-air missiles, and four 500-kilogram bombs. But a
weapons “load exceeding 12 tons will not get it off the carrier’s ski jump ramp.”
This might prohibit it from carrying heavier munitions such as PL-12
medium-range air-to-air missiles.

To further complicate things, the J-15 can carry only two tons of weapons
while fully fueled. “This would equip it with no more than two YJ-83K and
two PL-8 missiles,” thus the “range of the YJ-83K prepared for the fighter
will be shorter than comparable YJ-83K missiles launched from larger PLAN
[People’s Liberation Army Navy] vessels. The J-15 will be boxed into less
than 120 [kilometers] of attack range.”

Losing the ability to carry the PL-12 medium-range air-to-air missiles will
make the J-15 an “unlikely match” against other foreign carrier-based fighters.

“Even the Vietnam People’s Air Force can outmatch the PL-8 short-range
missile. Without space for an electronic countermeasure pod, a huge number
of J-15s must be mobilized for even simple missions, a waste for the PLA Navy
in using the precious space aboard its sole aircraft carrier in service.”

Built by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, the J-15 is a copy of the
Russian-made Su-33. China acquired an Su-33 prototype from the Ukraine in
2001. Avionics are most likely the same as the J-11B (Su-27). In 2006,
Russia accused China of reverse engineering the Su-27 and canceled a
production license to build 200 Su-27s after only 95 aircraft had been built.

Vasily Kashin, a China military specialist at the Moscow-based Centre for
Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, suggests the J-15 might be a better
aircraft than the Su-33. “I think that there might be some improvements
because electronic equipment now weighs less than in the 1990s,” he said.
It could also be lighter due to new composites that China is using on the
J-11B that were not available on the original Su-33.

Despite improvements, Kashin wonders why the Chinese bothered with
the Su-33 given the fact that Russia gave up on it. Weight problems and
other issues forced the Russians to develop the MiG-29K, which has better
power-to-weight ratio and can carry more weapons. “Of course, when the
Chinese get their future carriers equipped with catapults, that limitation
will not apply and they will be able to fully realize Su-33/J-15 potential —
huge range and good payload,” Kashin said.

The Liaoning is the problem. The carrier is small — 53,000 tons — and
uses a ski jump. From Russia’s experience, “taking off from the carrier with
takeoff weight exceeding some 26 tons is very difficult,” Kashin said.

Roger Cliff, a China defense specialist for the Center for Strategic and
Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said this is “one of the reasons
why sky-jump carriers can’t be considered to be equivalent to full-size
carriers with catapults.”

A number of unanswered questions are raised by the SMN report, Kashin
said, including the amount of fuel on board, carrier speed, wind speed and
direction.

Cliff also raises issues with SMN’s conclusions. “It doesn’t make sense to
me that the J-15 can take off with YJ-83s but not PL-12s, since the YJ-83
weighs about 1,800 pounds and the PL-12 weighs about 400 pounds.”

A possible answer is that it was unable to take off with both. “The article
says that it can only carry ‘two tons’ of missiles and munitions when fully
fueled, which is 4,400 pounds, and two YJ-83s plus two PL-8s would weigh
over 4,000 pounds, leaving no margin for any PL-12s. But I don’t see why it
couldn’t take off with PL-12s if it wasn’t carrying YJ-83s.” Cliff concludes
that the J-15 should be capable of carrying PL-12s when it is flying purely
air-to-air missions and that “it probably just can’t carry PL-12s when it is
flying a strike mission.”

Kashin said the J-15, unlike the Su-33, should have a “potent” internal
countermeasures suite, thus allowing for more space for weapons. The
SMN report suggests it has an external electronic countermeasures (ECM)
pod.

Weight issues should also not be too much of a problem for the J-15, he said,
since the Su-33 did fly from the same type of carrier carrying “6-8 air-to-air
missiles and Sorbtsia ECM pods carrying something like 6 to 6.5 tons of fuel.”

China’s next carriers will reportedly use electromagnetic catapults, Kashin
said, but “limitations are significant when it comes to air-to-surface weapons,
which limit the J-15’s use as a multirole fighter.

Chinese Media Takes Aim at J-15 Fighter | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
bilde


TAIPEI — In an unusual departure for mainland Chinese-language media,
the Beijing-based Sina Military Network (SMN) criticized the capabilities of
the carrier-borne J-15 Flying Shark as nothing more than a “flopping fish.”

On Sept. 22, the state-controlled China Daily Times reported the new
aircraft carrier Liaoning had just finished a three-month voyage and
conducted over 100 sorties of “various aircraft,” of which the J-15 “took
off and landed on the carrier with maximum load and various weapons.”
This report was also carried on the official Liberation Army Daily.

Contradicting any report by official military or government media is unusual
in China given state control of the media.

What sounded more like a rant than analysis, SMN, on Sept. 23, reported
the new J-15 was incapable of flying from the Liaoning with heavy weapons,
“effectively crippling its attack range and firepower.”

The fighter can take off and land on the carrier with two YJ-83K anti-ship
missiles, two PL-8 air-to-air missiles, and four 500-kilogram bombs. But a
weapons “load exceeding 12 tons will not get it off the carrier’s ski jump ramp.”
This might prohibit it from carrying heavier munitions such as PL-12
medium-range air-to-air missiles.

To further complicate things, the J-15 can carry only two tons of weapons
while fully fueled. “This would equip it with no more than two YJ-83K and
two PL-8 missiles,” thus the “range of the YJ-83K prepared for the fighter
will be shorter than comparable YJ-83K missiles launched from larger PLAN
[People’s Liberation Army Navy] vessels. The J-15 will be boxed into less
than 120 [kilometers] of attack range.”

Losing the ability to carry the PL-12 medium-range air-to-air missiles will
make the J-15 an “unlikely match” against other foreign carrier-based fighters.

“Even the Vietnam People’s Air Force can outmatch the PL-8 short-range
missile. Without space for an electronic countermeasure pod, a huge number
of J-15s must be mobilized for even simple missions, a waste for the PLA Navy
in using the precious space aboard its sole aircraft carrier in service.”

Built by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, the J-15 is a copy of the
Russian-made Su-33. China acquired an Su-33 prototype from the Ukraine in
2001. Avionics are most likely the same as the J-11B (Su-27). In 2006,
Russia accused China of reverse engineering the Su-27 and canceled a
production license to build 200 Su-27s after only 95 aircraft had been built.

Vasily Kashin, a China military specialist at the Moscow-based Centre for
Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, suggests the J-15 might be a better
aircraft than the Su-33. “I think that there might be some improvements
because electronic equipment now weighs less than in the 1990s,” he said.
It could also be lighter due to new composites that China is using on the
J-11B that were not available on the original Su-33.

Despite improvements, Kashin wonders why the Chinese bothered with
the Su-33 given the fact that Russia gave up on it. Weight problems and
other issues forced the Russians to develop the MiG-29K, which has better
power-to-weight ratio and can carry more weapons. “Of course, when the
Chinese get their future carriers equipped with catapults, that limitation
will not apply and they will be able to fully realize Su-33/J-15 potential —
huge range and good payload,” Kashin said.

The Liaoning is the problem. The carrier is small — 53,000 tons — and
uses a ski jump. From Russia’s experience, “taking off from the carrier with
takeoff weight exceeding some 26 tons is very difficult,” Kashin said.

Roger Cliff, a China defense specialist for the Center for Strategic and
Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said this is “one of the reasons
why sky-jump carriers can’t be considered to be equivalent to full-size
carriers with catapults.”

A number of unanswered questions are raised by the SMN report, Kashin
said, including the amount of fuel on board, carrier speed, wind speed and
direction.

Cliff also raises issues with SMN’s conclusions. “It doesn’t make sense to
me that the J-15 can take off with YJ-83s but not PL-12s, since the YJ-83
weighs about 1,800 pounds and the PL-12 weighs about 400 pounds.”

A possible answer is that it was unable to take off with both. “The article
says that it can only carry ‘two tons’ of missiles and munitions when fully
fueled, which is 4,400 pounds, and two YJ-83s plus two PL-8s would weigh
over 4,000 pounds, leaving no margin for any PL-12s. But I don’t see why it
couldn’t take off with PL-12s if it wasn’t carrying YJ-83s.” Cliff concludes
that the J-15 should be capable of carrying PL-12s when it is flying purely
air-to-air missions and that “it probably just can’t carry PL-12s when it is
flying a strike mission.”

Kashin said the J-15, unlike the Su-33, should have a “potent” internal
countermeasures suite, thus allowing for more space for weapons. The
SMN report suggests it has an external electronic countermeasures (ECM)
pod.

Weight issues should also not be too much of a problem for the J-15, he said,
since the Su-33 did fly from the same type of carrier carrying “6-8 air-to-air
missiles and Sorbtsia ECM pods carrying something like 6 to 6.5 tons of fuel.”

China’s next carriers will reportedly use electromagnetic catapults, Kashin
said, but “limitations are significant when it comes to air-to-surface weapons,
which limit the J-15’s use as a multirole fighter.

Chinese Media Takes Aim at J-15 Fighter | Defense News | defensenews.com

:lol: The credibilities of this article is full of doubt and mistake. First no sina mainland China news criticise J-15. More likely fabricate. Then this news is reported by Taipei based newspaper which is from ROC Taiwan. Of cos they will rubbish whatever opportunities about PRC when come.

Russia never gives up of Flanker type carrier based fighter. They switch to Mig-29K becos sugar daddy India already fork out a huge chunk of money for development of Mig-29K. Russia can save the money of R&D by just producing more MIg-29K for themselves. In fact, Russia wanted China to buy upgraded Su-33 and paid for the development fee of it, Of cos , China refuse and we went for the J-15, all the money will goes to our own people and development.

Of cos, I can understand TS intention to try smear anything about China without even doing a basic analysis and post any rubbish of his intention..
 
bilde


TAIPEI — In an unusual departure for mainland Chinese-language media,
the Beijing-based Sina Military Network (SMN) criticized the capabilities of
the carrier-borne J-15 Flying Shark as nothing more than a “flopping fish.”

On Sept. 22, the state-controlled China Daily Times reported the new
aircraft carrier Liaoning had just finished a three-month voyage and
conducted over 100 sorties of “various aircraft,” of which the J-15 “took
off and landed on the carrier with maximum load and various weapons.”
This report was also carried on the official Liberation Army Daily.

Contradicting any report by official military or government media is unusual
in China given state control of the media.

What sounded more like a rant than analysis, SMN, on Sept. 23, reported
the new J-15 was incapable of flying from the Liaoning with heavy weapons,
“effectively crippling its attack range and firepower.”

The fighter can take off and land on the carrier with two YJ-83K anti-ship
missiles, two PL-8 air-to-air missiles, and four 500-kilogram bombs. But a
weapons “load exceeding 12 tons will not get it off the carrier’s ski jump ramp.”
This might prohibit it from carrying heavier munitions such as PL-12
medium-range air-to-air missiles.

To further complicate things, the J-15 can carry only two tons of weapons
while fully fueled. “This would equip it with no more than two YJ-83K and
two PL-8 missiles,” thus the “range of the YJ-83K prepared for the fighter
will be shorter than comparable YJ-83K missiles launched from larger PLAN
[People’s Liberation Army Navy] vessels. The J-15 will be boxed into less
than 120 [kilometers] of attack range.”

Losing the ability to carry the PL-12 medium-range air-to-air missiles will
make the J-15 an “unlikely match” against other foreign carrier-based fighters.

“Even the Vietnam People’s Air Force can outmatch the PL-8 short-range
missile. Without space for an electronic countermeasure pod, a huge number
of J-15s must be mobilized for even simple missions, a waste for the PLA Navy
in using the precious space aboard its sole aircraft carrier in service.”

Built by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, the J-15 is a copy of the
Russian-made Su-33. China acquired an Su-33 prototype from the Ukraine in
2001. Avionics are most likely the same as the J-11B (Su-27). In 2006,
Russia accused China of reverse engineering the Su-27 and canceled a
production license to build 200 Su-27s after only 95 aircraft had been built.

Vasily Kashin, a China military specialist at the Moscow-based Centre for
Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, suggests the J-15 might be a better
aircraft than the Su-33. “I think that there might be some improvements
because electronic equipment now weighs less than in the 1990s,” he said.
It could also be lighter due to new composites that China is using on the
J-11B that were not available on the original Su-33.

Despite improvements, Kashin wonders why the Chinese bothered with
the Su-33 given the fact that Russia gave up on it. Weight problems and
other issues forced the Russians to develop the MiG-29K, which has better
power-to-weight ratio and can carry more weapons. “Of course, when the
Chinese get their future carriers equipped with catapults, that limitation
will not apply and they will be able to fully realize Su-33/J-15 potential —
huge range and good payload,” Kashin said.

The Liaoning is the problem. The carrier is small — 53,000 tons — and
uses a ski jump. From Russia’s experience, “taking off from the carrier with
takeoff weight exceeding some 26 tons is very difficult,” Kashin said.

Roger Cliff, a China defense specialist for the Center for Strategic and
Budgetary Assessments in Washington, said this is “one of the reasons
why sky-jump carriers can’t be considered to be equivalent to full-size
carriers with catapults.”

A number of unanswered questions are raised by the SMN report, Kashin
said, including the amount of fuel on board, carrier speed, wind speed and
direction.

Cliff also raises issues with SMN’s conclusions. “It doesn’t make sense to
me that the J-15 can take off with YJ-83s but not PL-12s, since the YJ-83
weighs about 1,800 pounds and the PL-12 weighs about 400 pounds.”

A possible answer is that it was unable to take off with both. “The article
says that it can only carry ‘two tons’ of missiles and munitions when fully
fueled, which is 4,400 pounds, and two YJ-83s plus two PL-8s would weigh
over 4,000 pounds, leaving no margin for any PL-12s. But I don’t see why it
couldn’t take off with PL-12s if it wasn’t carrying YJ-83s.” Cliff concludes
that the J-15 should be capable of carrying PL-12s when it is flying purely
air-to-air missions and that “it probably just can’t carry PL-12s when it is
flying a strike mission.”

Kashin said the J-15, unlike the Su-33, should have a “potent” internal
countermeasures suite, thus allowing for more space for weapons. The
SMN report suggests it has an external electronic countermeasures (ECM)
pod.

Weight issues should also not be too much of a problem for the J-15, he said,
since the Su-33 did fly from the same type of carrier carrying “6-8 air-to-air
missiles and Sorbtsia ECM pods carrying something like 6 to 6.5 tons of fuel.”

China’s next carriers will reportedly use electromagnetic catapults, Kashin
said, but “limitations are significant when it comes to air-to-surface weapons,
which limit the J-15’s use as a multirole fighter.

Chinese Media Takes Aim at J-15 Fighter | Defense News | defensenews.com

What I say is that once you free the media in China and that too when true democracy prevails, we shall see the media(Chinese) tearing down the Chinese defense equipments just like our media tears down DRDO and others, where they take the cue and troll in PDF. This is tip of iceberg!!
 
What I say is that once you free the media in China and that too when true democracy prevails, we shall see the media(Chinese) tearing down the Chinese defense equipments just like our media tears down DRDO and others, where they take the cue and troll in PDF. This is tip of iceberg!!

Please do not mix Indian military indigenous failure with China own domestic military effort. Trying to class us with Indian is an insult.

Our military development effort is far superior and successful. Didn't we just bag an important air defense deal from Turkey that even US and Russia cant compete with us.

The local media even given with freedom to pose will hard to find fault with China military production effort.
 
:lol: The credibilities of this article is full of doubt and mistake. First no sina mainland China news criticise J-15. More likely fabricate. Then this news is reported by Taipei based newspaper which is from ROC Taiwan. Of cos they will rubbish whatever opportunities about PRC when come.
You guys can't face facts and neither accept any criticism, can you? Jeeez! The Chinese have this inveterate habit of cloning and reverse engineering everything from pins and matchboxes to aircraft, so what else can one expect? Indigenous R&D is zilch. The only R&D the Chinese do is to blindly copy/reverse engineer stuff from the Russians and Americans. :P
 
You guys can't face facts and neither accept any criticism, can you? Jeeez! The Chinese have this inveterate habit of cloning and reverse engineering everything from pins and matchboxes to aircraft, so what else can one expect? Indigenous R&D is zilch. The only R&D the Chinese do is to blindly copy/reverse engineer stuff from the Russians and Americans. :P

Typical pathetic response of Indian troll. If its so easy to copy, countries like East timor or Somalia shall be making 5th gen fighter jet now , right?

Let me show you one of the country that is doing copy also.

BBC NEWS | Business | Kalashnikov upset by Indian 'copy' :lol:

Its not that we dont accept critism. So far the decision by PLAN to go on this route for carrier is absolutely rational. The only criticise I have for PLAN for carrier is they do things too precaution-sly and result in too slow development.
 
:lol: The credibilities of this article is full of doubt and mistake. First no sina mainland China news criticise J-15. More likely fabricate. Then this news is reported by Taipei based newspaper which is from ROC Taiwan. Of cos they will rubbish whatever opportunities about PRC when come.

Russia never gives up of Flanker type carrier based fighter. They switch to Mig-29K becos sugar daddy India already fork out a huge chunk of money for development of Mig-29K. Russia can save the money of R&D by just producing more MIg-29K for themselves. In fact, Russia wanted China to buy upgraded Su-33 and paid for the development fee of it, Of cos , China refuse and we went for the J-15, all the money will goes to our own people and development.

Of cos, I can understand TS intention to try smear anything about China without even doing a basic analysis and post any rubbish of his intention..

Maybe so, but there is no denying that the Chinese military have issues with engine technology so there could be some facts with thus report. Thete were other reports I have encounterrd fact or fiction that could undermine the true fighting capabilities of PLA.

所以一個強國會明白他的淡點而仍舊加油到成功之上。只有印度鬼將會聽巨地個"啦啦隊"的新聞。中國人不是似印度鬼。我地不是低B.
 
Regardless of the creditibility of the article, there are some truth in the kernel, which has been tried and truth by many military in the world

That is - the armament configurment is limited by the ski jump of the carrier.

This is a known fact whee you cannot take off with as much ordinance on a ski-jump as in a catapult carrier

J-15 may eventually work better with next gen Chinese carrier, but seems unlikely in lianling
 
@Beast
actually this same news is all over the internet.I atleast got several sites quoting the same news..is it this???


the truth is,Su-33 aka J-15 can't fully utilize its maximum weight from taking off via a Ski-Ramp..only solution is catapult and hopefully,china will deploy it in its new Carriers..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
:lol: The credibilities of this article is full of doubt and mistake. First no sina mainland China news criticise J-15. More likely fabricate. Then this news is reported by Taipei based newspaper which is from ROC Taiwan. Of cos they will rubbish whatever opportunities about PRC when come.

The article says the news comes from SMN, which means the news is from Chinese source. You are
100% free to question it's authenticity. However, you cannot just blabber that is from Taiwan so
it's wrong and this is from China so it's right.

If you see any miscalculation in the article or any factual mistake, prove that it is otherwise with
constructive evidence instead of ranting on source.

Russia never gives up of Flanker type carrier based fighter. They switch to Mig-29K becos sugar daddy India already fork out a huge chunk of money for development of Mig-29K. Russia can save the money of R&D by just producing more MIg-29K for themselves.

Hell what??? Atleast put things in perspective! Russia already has operational Su-33s and they have
been successfully operating from Kuznetsov for many years, even before India ordered MiG-29K!

What do you mean Russians switch to MiG-29K to save R&D cost? Su-33 is already operational! Where
is the need for new R&D for MiG-29K unless the latter is a better proposition?

Maintaining an existing fighter is a lot cheaper than buying a new fighter, new training equipment,
new logistics line, and new maintenance procedures.
The only reason why Russia would switch
to MiG-29K is because it is a better plane when it comes to carrier-based ops.

In fact, Russia wanted China to buy upgraded Su-33 and paid for the development fee of it, Of cos , China refuse and we went for the J-15, all the money will goes to our own people and development.

Still they supply the engines for carrier-based J-15s. So they are still supporting your program and you
are paying them money for it, eventhough you did not buy Su-33.

Of cos, I can understand TS intention to try smear anything about China without even doing a basic analysis and post any rubbish of his intention..

First, prove that it is rubbish.
 
Regardless of the creditibility of the article, there are some truth in the kernel, which has been tried and truth by many military in the world

That is - the armament configurment is limited by the ski jump of the carrier.

This is a known fact whee you cannot take off with as much ordinance on a ski-jump as in a catapult carrier

J-15 may eventually work better with next gen Chinese carrier, but seems unlikely in lianling

I had the same thought in mind. Future Chinese carriers are probably going to try and rectify the shortcomings of the Liaoning.

@Beast
actually this same news is all over the internet.I atleast got several sites quoting the same news..is it this???


the truth is,Su-33 aka J-15 can't fully utilize its maximum weight from taking off via a Ski-Ramp..only solution is catapult and hopefully,china will deploy it in its new Carriers..

Probably will, it seems the only logical choice, especially if they plan on putting the J-20s on their carriers in the future.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I had the same thought in mind. Future Chinese carriers are probably going to try and rectify the shortcomings of the Liaoning.



Probably will, it seems the only logical choice, especially if they plan on putting the J-20s on their carriers in the future.

Problem is, china cannot afford (not financially) to operate catapult carrier until PLAN had operate some overseas ports, big ship and fleet require heck a lot of resource, and i really think they could not do that anytime soon.

So for the time being, Chinese CVs are gonna operate in defensive level and I would consider the need of operating J-15 is a bit overkill I would actually go for MiG-29 or naval used j-10 for now
 
Problem is, china cannot afford (not financially) to operate catapult carrier until PLAN had operate some overseas ports, big ship and fleet require heck a lot of resource, and i really think they could not do that anytime soon.

So for the time being, Chinese CVs are gonna operate in defensive level and I would consider the need of operating J-15 is a bit overkill I would actually go for MiG-29 or naval used j-10 for now

Perhaps, I don't know much about the operating costs of an AC so I won't really argue. Having said that, China has long term ambitions for it's navy and air force, so I wouldn't be surprised if they continue regardless of the costs. In their minds, the awards may out weight the costs in the long term.

Who knows? Anything thing is possible.
 
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