shall china be united again?

[Kaiser]

China and Russia also fought a war back in the 1960's which china ended up winning

China might be the only nation that defeated 2 powers (US in korea, Russia in its small war)

 

[master_fx]

there arent real wining or losing in a small regional conflict(just strategic goals from each sides).... lets say korean war where US sucessfully protected SK from NK, and china sucessfully protect NK from SK.....
can you tell me who won sino-indo conflict in 1962???

 

[TexasJohn]

there arent real wining or losing in a small regional conflict(just strategic goals from each sides).... lets say korean war where US sucessfully protected SK from NK, and china sucessfully protect NK from SK.....
can you tell me who won sino-indo conflict in 1962???

Master_FX! Is there any doubt in your mind that China gave India an asswhuppin? What is goofy is that even though India had a decent enough Air Force they failed to use it properly! Talk about the " Himalayan blunder"!

 

[Kaiser]

The 1962 war was easily won by the Chinese

 

[Kaiser]

China and russia are still sometimes hostile to eachother

Moscow Facing A Complex Chinese Challenge

File photo: China's Premier Wen Jiabao struts past a Russian Honorguard after the two countries compete in wargames - only time will tell if the games are replaced with a real battle.
by Mark N. Katz
Washington (UPI) Jun 05, 2006
The rise of China affects virtually every other country in the world, but most especially those that neighbor it. Moscow has important reasons to be concerned about China: Russian territory bordering it is sparsely populated.
Furthermore, large numbers of Chinese citizens have been crossing the border to settle in Siberia -- something that many Russians in the region have become nervous about. Siberia also possesses petroleum and other natural resources that a rapidly modernizing China increasingly wants access to.

In the past, Beijing has asserted territorial claims to a significant portion of Siberia. Almost all of these claims have been settled, but if a more powerful China ever in the future decided to revive its claim to any of this territory, Russia would face an extremely difficult challenge.

The Chinese military appears to be undergoing modernization at a far more rapid rate than the Russian one -- in part because China is the largest customer for Russian weaponry. As time goes on, the Russian-Chinese conventional force balance is steadily shifting in Beijing's favor.

Russia, of course, continues to possess a large nuclear arsenal -- as does China. But would the Kremlin really be willing to risk Moscow in order to save Vladivostok or any other Russian city near the Sino-Russian border? The answer to this question may not be clear to the Kremlin even now, much less in the future when China has become more powerful.

The Chinese challenge to Russia, of course, has not reached this point by any means. Many Russian observers, though, have expressed fear about China's future intentions toward Russia. Yet China and Russia also have several important common interests, including opposition to American "hegemony," democratization, and Sunni fundamentalism. They also have a growing trade relationship that is important to both.

Moscow's response to the Chinese challenge has so far involved a mixture of bandwagoning with it and balancing against it. On the one hand, Moscow bandwagoned with China through signing a Treaty of Friendship with Beijing in 2001, working with China through the Shanghai Cooperation Organization to reduce America's post-9/11 presence in Central Asia, and participating in joint military exercises that were widely seen to have both anti-Taiwanese and anti-American overtones. On the other hand, Moscow has balanced against China through repeatedly calling for a strategic partnership with India as well as China (despite the important differences between these two), and selling more advanced weapons to India than to China.

The Putin administration's conflicted policy toward China can best be seen by comparing its arms export and petroleum export policies toward it. China is the biggest customer for Russian weapons. Indeed, the Russian arms industry needs China as a customer in order to prosper since the Russian military cannot afford enough weapons in order for it to do so. By contrast, the Putin administration has been hesitant about building an oil pipeline from Siberia to China for fear of becoming too dependent on China as a customer. The result is that Moscow is providing Beijing with the means (i.e., arms) to threaten Russia while also giving it some incentive to do so by denying Beijing as much Siberian oil as China wishes to buy.

Fortunately for Moscow, Beijing is preoccupied with Taiwan, the U.S., Japan, and even domestic unrest. But if China ever decided to take measures that Russia found threatening, Moscow could find fending it off to be extremely difficult -- if not impossible.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Moscow_Fac..._Challenge.html

 

[master_fx]

not really.... china and russia 95% finish sovling the boarder issues.....
china's goal: taiwan, diaoyu island, mongolia, and arunachal pradesh....
taiwan: hopefully peaceful unification
diaoyu island: sent ships there build another light house..... lol
mongolia: ran them over with inner mongolians... lol
arunachal paradesh: pakistan attack kashmir, china attack arunachal paradesh, bangladesh attack the northern regions...

 

[Officer of Engineers]

China and Russia also fought a war back in the 1960's which china ended up winning

China might be the only nation that defeated 2 powers (US in korea, Russia in its small war)

I have no idea where you get the notion that China won anything. The Korean War was at best a propaganda victory. It was not worth the price the Chinese paid.

As for the Sino-Soviet Border Clashes. Here's a hint. The PLA retreated 100 miles from the Sino-Soviet border. The Soviets built up from 10 to 45 divisions. There were no nukes aimed at China in 1960. By 1973, there were over 300 aimed at China. And the Chinese had zero nukes aiming at Russia.

So, yeah, they won.

 

[master_fx]

agree..... but i think china has nukes in the 70s.......

 

[Officer of Engineers]

They've tested nukes and it was assumed that they deployed them. However, the rockets aimed at Moscow were HE, not nukes. The Chinese were having problems with their designs.

 

[master_fx]

dont no..... but i am sure there are nukes aim at russia in the 80s.....

 

[Officer of Engineers]

No, not even today. The 2nd Artillery Force only has operational control over the delivery vehicles, not the nukes themselves. The nukes are stored away from the 2AF and is under the Central Military Commission, ie civilian, control and guards.

At no time in its entire history were 2AF assets mated with nukes. Early on it was technical difficulties but in the 80s, the military lost control of the nukes to the civilian scientists and never got it back.

This has been so frustrating to Chinese warfighters that the 2AF said "screw you" to the egg heads and began to concentrate on HE tactics instead. Today, the 2AF is the only force in the world that trains on BM salvos.

 

[Neo]

At no time in its entire history were 2AF assets mated with nukes. Early on it was technical difficulties but in the 80s, the military lost control of the nukes to the civilian scientists and never got it back.

Sir could you please elaborate how the mighty military lost control of the nukes to the civilian scientists?

 

[TexasJohn]

Sir could you please elaborate how the mighty military lost control of the nukes to the civilian scientists?

O of E, please respond to Neo and me. I am dying to hear this one too. btw, are we talking about China??

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Nie Rongzhen (Inside Red Star) described in the early days of the PLA a debate between strategic nuclear programs and the more conventional tanks, planes, artillery, boots, uniforms, hats, blankets, actual warfighting materials the military was actually favouring ... at the expense of the nuclear program.

The civilians fought to retain the nuclear program (and their jobs) and hence, the decision to seperate the nukes from the military in order to keep that program alive - much to the displeasure of the military.

It was also a bit of a rivalry. The civies blamed the military for being too **** farmers who can't handle a wrench, let alone a nuke (part of the reliability problems early on). The military called the civies a bunch of pampered lazy butts who don't know the 1st thing about warfighting hardships.

It is not as unique as people think. The KGB retained control of the nuke release codes while the Strategic Rocket Forces control the delivery vehicles in the USSR. In the US, UK, and France, nuclear weapons manufacturing and maintenace are the responsibility of the civilian departments, not the military.

Now, why the hell is "d u m b" banned?

 

[Neo]

Thank you for elaborating Sir!

Whose call is at to make, military has always been very powerful in China.

They could have opted to seperate the civil and military nuclear programme by deviding the facilities and scientist equally.

Maybe its a d u m b question, but I'm trying to understand.