Setback for IAF's plans to arm fighter jets with Meteor missiles

[Mrc]

Procurement to be completed in next 5000 years as no body knows what to fo with a 70s designed short legged air craft with no meteor

 

[Blue Marlin]

That is some fallacious reasoning.
If MBDA was really against selling Meteor because we didn't buy Eurofighters then we wouldn't be getting Meteors for the Rafales.

Also how do you know it's a farce?
Almost every fighter aircraft bought by India has gotten incremental orders.
If anything future Rafale orders cannot be discounted.

its not because of our "anger" of india not choosing either gripen or typhoon but that mbda's refusal to integrate a european missile into a russian jet. this would mean the sukhois weapon library would have to be heavily modified to handle the sukhoi, and the architecture is most certainly differant and have to be changed to evry sukhoi that would handel the meteor. oh and also politics said no.
as for the farce, india purchasing aircraft in big numbers goes back to over a decade ago.

it took over a decade for india to commit to purchase 126 rafale and then scrap it and then go back to buy 3 dozen rafale of the shelf with no tangible proof of further orders with local production in sight.

now you tell me is that a farse? if you ask me i was being very lenient

Dream?
How many missile projects has DRDO just given up on?
If you could get the answer to that you would know that the SFDR is very much real.

dont know, an indian ramjet missile would be available when the amca would be in available (~2035)

 

[Imran Khan]

i wonder indians sometime

india will buy Meteor
comments - wow excellent new now no one can save china Pakistan .

india will not buy Meteor
wow excellent new now made in india rocks

 

[randomradio]

so if small is in the hundreds so what is large thousands?

That's how we operate. We bought "only" 493 MICAs for our 50 Mirage-2000s. So you can scale up from there.

you do know im talking in the context of aircraft right, not missiles. do note the meteor goes for about £2+ million
and thats 40% more than the latest aim-120

Yes, it's a bit expensive, but we can manage.

We spent $2.5M on each of those MICAs, so a cheaper and better alternative like the Meteor is the obvious choice if we want more Western missiles. The old Russian missiles were even more expensive in fact.

Considering the significant global interest in the missile, the unit price of the Meteor will fall with continued production. And considering the UK is going down the drain, British pounds doesn't have a very bright future.

this would mean the sukhois weapon library would have to be heavily modified to handle the sukhoi, and the architecture is most certainly differant and have to be changed to evry sukhoi that would handel the meteor. oh and also politics said no.

We integrate weapons on the Su-30 on our own. No Russians involved.

as for the farce, india purchasing aircraft in big numbers goes back to over a decade ago.

So 272 Su-30MKIs aren't real?

 

[Blue Marlin]

That's how we operate. We bought "only" 493 MICAs for our 50 Mirage-2000s. So you can scale up from there.

yes only 495 missiles pakistan buy missiles in the same bulk which is a county 5 tie smaller than india and 50 is the average number of fighter procured so it changes nothing.

Yes, it's a bit expensive, but we can manage.

We spent $2.5M on each of those MICAs, so a cheaper and better alternative like the Meteor is the obvious choice if we want more Western missiles. The old Russian missiles were even more expensive in fact

Considering the significant global interest in the missile, the unit price of the Meteor will fall with continued production. And considering the UK is going down the drain, British pounds doesn't have a very bright future.

the sterling has gained back it losses from the Brexit vote so its back to normal for us. $2.5 million is quite high but expected coming from the french. do note the meteor is in sterling not usd which is about $3.3+ million

We integrate weapons on the Su-30 on our own. No Russians involved.

i find it hard to believe india would be able to integrate the python missile with out russain assistance or may be even without Israeli assistance considering they are the only ones with access to the wml. and they would never in a million years give india access to the wml and its source codes.

So 272 Su-30MKIs aren't real?

how many rafales does india have?

 

[lcloo]

China has no AAM in the same class as Meteor AAM?

Extract from US POPSCI dated in 2015:-
Speaking at the 2015 Air Force Association conference the same week as the test, USAF Air Combatant Commander General Hawk Carlisle cited the PL-15 as the reason for Congress to fund a new missile to replace the American AMRAAM. His reasons for concern is the PL-15's range. By incorporating a ramjet engine, its range could reach 150-200km, was well as its terminal maneuverability. That would out-range existing American air-to-air missiles, making the PL-15 not just a threat to fighters like the F-35, but also to US bombers and aerial tankers critical to American air operations across the vast Pacific. General Carlisle called "out-sticking" the PL-15 a high priority for the USAF.

source: https://www.popsci.com/chinese-air-to-air-missile-hits-targets-spooks-usaf-general

 

[randomradio]

yes only 495 missiles pakistan buy missiles in the same bulk which is a county 5 tie smaller than india and 50 is the average number of fighter procured so it changes nothing.

So what? What's Pakistan got to do with this?

the sterling has gained back it losses from the Brexit vote so its back to normal for us.

Brexit is yet to happen. And no, GBP is still weaker than it originally was.

$2.5 million is quite high but expected coming from the french. do note the meteor is in sterling not usd which is about $3.3+ million

It's not as expensive as you believe. Your figures are old.

The Luftwaffe will acquire 150 missiles at a cost of around $323 million, plus a further $175 million for integration. That compares favorably with a price tag of $423 million for 180 AIM-120Ds, which the Pentagon paid in 2012.

The missile itself costs only $2.1M.

i find it hard to believe india would be able to integrate the python missile with out russain assistance or may be even without Israeli assistance considering they are the only ones with access to the wml. and they would never in a million years give india access to the wml and its source codes.

Nope. Would recommend reading the article.
http://idrw.org/when-india-surprised-russia-by-integrating-brahmos-a-with-sukhoi-30mki/
Sudhir Mishra CEO&MD, BrahMos Aerospace while speaking to Indian media revealed how Russians were surprised when India was able to integrate BrahMos-A Supersonic Cruise missile with Sukhoi-30MKI without taking any help or collaboration with Russian companies.

Russia had asked 250 million $ dollars for integration of Brahmos to Sukhoi-30MKI which Indian negotiation team felt was way too expensive but when repeated round of meetings and negotiations to convince Russians to reduce their price failed, India almost gave up the project but later decided to pursue it locally without help from Russians.

And Astra--
https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...sile-from-su30mki-aircraft/article7015126.ece
The challenging task was carried out by HAL with support from Indian Air Force, DRDO and other agencies.

We are not integrating the Python on MKI anyway. Why did you bring this up?

how many rafales does india have?

Back in 2002, we had zero MKIs. The same situation with Rafale today. The IAF intends to operate 200+ of them over the next 15 years.

 

[sathya]

Message to India:

If you want Meteors get 110 Rafales.

Nope get Thales radar for Tejas and Su30

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

i do recall you mentioned india acquired the "er" variant of the r27 in the early 2000's which in the aspect of range it is greater than that of the r77. but i used my words carefully here. i said modern not longest range. do bear in mind a missile that has a 120km range will not likely engage a target at that range as the kill ratio will decrease.
i would be more worryed with a mki armed with an r77 than with one with an r27, but thats just me.
the derby missile has a range of ~60km which is similar to the mica. as for the astra, it has not to my knowledge has entered serial production, there were one or two incidents with the latest launches not long ago.
thank go you didn't mention the k100.

now that you did bring up india's arsenal of bvraam missiles, pakistan does have a decent arsenal too. they had the old darter-t (derby clone) during the 2001 stand off and the current sd10a which according to an interview with some air force guy kaser tufal said the range is similar to the 120-c5. if you consider they purchased the sd10 after the 120-c5 id assume they competed them against each other.

however in one aspect where india does actually have the edge over pakistan is the wvraam area, as india has the mica and the python 5 and pakistan has the pl-5 aim-9 and the mectron maa-1a

Astra did enter production recently with first 50 units.Serial production will then follow this initial batch.R-27 you are right is not as advanced as r-77 but it is meant to be launched in pairs.R-27 has 3 different seekers.One semi active radar homing,one active and infrared passive homing.Its actually meant to use the high load of SU-30 mki(12 AAMs in air superiority configuration ) to confuse and overwhelm enemy fighter defenses through multiple launches using different seekers.

See the 4 R-27s in the belly above,along with 4 R-77s and 4 R-73 WVR.Those R-27 are likely carrying 2 types of seekers and will be launched in pairs to increase chances of hit and defeating enemy countermeasures.

 

[Basel]

isnt SD10 range beyond 100km, 110-120km?

PL-15 and PL-21D are coming soon in PLAAF so PAF may also orders some.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Procurement to be completed in next 5000 years as no body knows what to fo with a 70s designed short legged air craft with no meteor

Aaah, the classic hopeful pakistani.

A second Tejas production facility opened last year and a 3rd will open next year in Nekkundi that will produce 8 Tejas a year bringing the total production of Tejas to the promised 16 a year.
Don't you worry, you'll be seeing a lot of Tejas far earlier than you think or hoped for.

 

[Basel]

oh dear @randomradio .............. remember what i said ?
the only modern bvraam has is the r77 which as inferior to the aim-120.
which pretty much leaves india with the mk2's as the most capable fighters assuming they have the mica missiles

But so called super India said to have Derby BVR too.

We also have the R27,and israeli Derby for the tejas,and now astra has entered production.Only PAF F-16s have aim-120,that is also c-5 model not AIM-120D.Meteor on rafales from next year will come regardless of this tangle.

PL-12C, PL-15 & PL-21D are going to be opponent of your new missiles don't worry about Pakistan and China.

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201701271050085721-china-missile-pentagon/

 

[Super Falcon]

Pakistani Airforce should now choose SU 35 and with better armpackage we are 20 years back

 

[GodToons]

Actually substandard design... amf 45 years of developement makes it dead... they'd tried to give it a life line with meteor

I like your statement, every time you comment on Tejas you increase its age by 1 month. So project design finalized in sometime around 1995 becomes 45 years old after adding all these months

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

PL-12C, PL-15 & PL-21D are going to be opponent of your new missiles don't worry about Pakistan and China.

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201701271050085721-china-missile-pentagon/

Can't put them on anything but JF-17s due to US restrictions.We are not losing any sleep over JF-17s which are already half obsolete.