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Set Kashmir aside, focus on trade

Whatever happens, at the moment the main focus of all 3 countries should be economic development and all factors curtailing growth in the region must be removed.

True my friend. I don't know about China but what I do know is that hailing from a same unit of nation before our respective independence, we can do live in peace and harmony. Why should you or I have animosity due to a third person. Let us look forward rather than looking back. our history maybe full of bad blood and feud , but however we cant change it , but what we can do is chart our future and I am sure this generation is educated enough to do so
 
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Impossible, just look at the terrain.



Btw, Sutlej also runs thru IoC.

how can you say that with an image of indus near Nanga parbat.

Diverting rivers is not a problem and they can be diverted in any direction.

if terrain is difficult then more money might be required.

When I talked about China diverting rivers.
I talked theoratically.
No feasibility report has been done on such a thing.

China has already built a dam on sutlej.
 
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Check the terrain in Tibet Autonomous Region in so far as Indus is concerned.


Even if hypothetically feasible, do you really feel that China will spend collosal amount that will be required to please Pakistan and in the bargain fall behind in its quest to seek parity with the US?
 
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indiapakistanfriendship,
Trust me.Don't argue with Jana about this.The argument will only go around in circles and she will never stop whining. I have seen few people who hate India as much as she does.



What a hypocrat you are. As if you did not check your forum and did not see the amount of hate the indians have for Pakistan.

BTW atleast i never used F.ilthy Dirty language for India even on our own forum unlike you guys.
 
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And the reason I mentioned China is because there is this widespread belief that the day China achieves parity or superiority over the US, it will attack Taiwan, which will bring in the US, and India will assist the US. Pakistan will assist China, and thus WWIII might begin.

This is of course a theory, and the US might simply choose to ignore Taiwan or China may never ever attack Taiwan.

There's no way the US will ask for India's help in fighting China. Firstly I don't think they would need any help, and even if the do they have the Brits and the Frenchies to save them.
 
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Which kashmiris are you talking about, what do you know about the Indian side of Kashmir, have you lived there long enough to put forward such claims? You emotions are not the ones that matter, but ground reality does.

We have many Kashmiris living in Azad Kashmir dear. Who are originally from IOK and they were not happy that’s why they migrated to Pakistan and remaining are fighting with your army. So they are quite happy I guess.
 
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Solid Snake
The point you raised about the Chinese occupied regions of Kashmir is a valid one. However, from what I've seen on this forum, Pakistanis choose to conveniently sidestep that issue as if the concerned areas were never a part of Kashmir.
As self proclaimed saviors of the Kashmiri people and Kashmir itself they show a remarkable indifference toward Aksai Chin and the land they themselves gifted to China.Both areas have always been part of Kashmir.
 
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We have many Kashmiris living in Azad Kashmir dear. Who are originally from IOK and they were not happy that’s why they migrated to Pakistan and remaining are fighting with your army. So they are quite happy I guess.

Yes thats the whole point, those who are willing to migrate to your side of the border can migrate. Do you really beileve that Kashmir can be independent when India gives it away. I am sure Pakistan is no messiah to just allot it independence after shedding so many lives for it.

Happy? Yup as far as I know the Kashmiris in Indian side are not angry enough to start a major gaurilla campaign or launch a major civil war even after moral and material support from Pakistan, this alone baffles me. So whether they are happy, I dont know but I kno for sure that they are not revolting or are angry to the magnitude you project.
 
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What a hypocrat you are. As if you did not check your forum and did not see the amount of hate the indians have for Pakistan.

BTW atleast i never used F.ilthy Dirty language for India even on our own forum unlike you guys.

Do you deny that you hate India? If you do deny it, then I'm sorry.I'll take my comments back.
If you don't, then I'm not lying and I'm not a hypocrite.
Please do not mention other forums here.I can give you examples of Pakistani forums too,where the members use unutterable language while referring to India.
 
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Do you deny that you hate India? If you do deny it, then I'm sorry.I'll take my comments back.
If you don't, then I'm not lying and I'm not a hypocrite.
Please do not mention other forums here.I can give you examples of Pakistani forums too,where the members use unutterable language while referring to India.

The claims which both our countries have lets put them aside and talk about hate. In the past 60 years we have fought three wars came close to another more and all sorts of other rivialry remain. Now I think it is natural for both sides to hate the other. It is true Pakistanis dont like Indian but I can also say Indian dont like Pakistanis. I think what our people have been through this is normal. What needs to be done is how to get our people to sit together. We should be talking about how to mend our differences, we all know about the rivalry now lets talk about peace.:cheers:
 
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Theoriticall yes, but one does need to understand the complexities of building a massive hydroelectic project in allmost unhospitable terrain.

I thought so to, but then I borrowed an engineering books from one of my engineering collegues entitle "Engeineering review manual, 7th edition, 1986, ISBN 0-932276-44-X by Micheal R. Lindeburg, MscN, Phd, Dsc(d)"
Table 11.2 on page 77 indicates that less then 10% of damns constructed experience failure based on structural or external variable. For external variable(earth quake, war), . it gave the example how only 3 damns were destroyed during the 2nd world war, two by allies and 1 by axis. In total as of 1986 when this book was published there were only 14 dam failures in this past 100 years.As of 2006 there are 6 more incidenences (Opuha Dam(1997), Vodní nádrž Soběnov(2002), Big Bay Dam(2004), Camará Dam(2004), Shakidor Dam(2005), and Taum Sauk reservoir(2005)

As of 3-gorge Dam the construction started in 1994, construction 80% complete and projected to be operational until about 2011, and if the past treands are true when it has around 90% chance of success.

I am sorry as an Indian or a human being I dont feel superior to anyone along ethnic lines, yes we are a proud lot but then therein stops or pride, as we dont want arrogance to rule the day.

To each his own, like I said before that is my personal opinion which is partially based on academic analysis from one of my anthropology classes I took, but of course taking a 4 month course does not make me an expert in anthropology and as stated before these are just my personal opinions, for all I know there could be as many number of un-intelligent, cowardly, stupid and daft Tamils as there are with opposite traits.

By the way those who invented the suicide bombing were srilankan tamils and not Indian Tamils. We dont even have remote connection with them, not much of mainland tamils have relations in there, they are completely different and their accent of tamil is difficult for us to understand.

"Tamils flee Sri Lankan war for jobs in India; Families sell possessions to make journey."(WORLD)(BRIEFING: WESTERN ASIA)
Publication Date: 18-NOV-06
Publication Title: The Washington Times
by S. Makenthiran, B.A., FCCA.

"Expatriation under Srimavo-Sashtri Pact: 500,000
Fled to India without Srimavo-Sashtri Pact(before 2006): 200,000
Average srilankan tamil arrival to india(since 2006) : 12000-16000 per year"(Makenthiran, 2008, para. 11, chart 7)
I think the numbers pretty much speak for themselves.

As for the suicide bombing connection well there is Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA) which is registered under the India's Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) on July 2, 2002(which means it officially exists and is acknowledged by government of India). This group was affiliated with Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) and provided mutual support, as was done in the case of one Thenmuli Rajaratnam against Rajiv Gandhi in the city of Chennai.


Yes South Indians were to adopt IT first and started towards development. here regional political outfits dont interfere in centre, they are more focussed on attracting investment and increasing the quality of life, also south traditionally had strong emphasis over education and there were several remorm movements in south that helped its cause. In case you like to know more about south India and its economic boom from a person standing in the ground , you can pm me ..

Appreciate you giving me time out of your doubtlessly busy life but I am already knee deep in scholarly academic research journals from south-Indian academics who paint quiet a no-holds bar picture of an average person in DravidaNadu, so a respectful no thanks from me :)

Sadly true my friend. However government along with UN agencies are working assidiously towards understanding various models of reform and poverty alleviation. The problem here in india is not lack of money but lack of proper distribution of wealth. India wll achieve almost a majority of its MDG atleast thats what UNICEF OFIICIALS predicted during my stint there,, however although we can theoritically achieve MDG in education sector, but practically its impossible because although we can achieve mdg there is a backlog of uneducated people. I am optimistic that we will alleviate poverty as soon as possible.

I agree, as a med student I know that humans have enough misery without worrying about putting food in their bellies, around 800 million to one billion people go to sleep each day hungry and thirsty, it shouldn't happen anywhere at anytime :tsk:

True, isin't is the beauty of India, where each and every group can live according to its wishes and can practise the language they want and be as diverse as possible and chart its own destiny.

Hehehe love your use of peacock-words to parry the terms I mentioned that are widely known in academia to be synonymous with south-India’s socio-politics. As always I am here to help :enjoy: I will re-write the terms with definitions and then perhaps you can enlighten me on how they display as you quote the "beauty of India, groups living according to its wishes/language/destiny":

Anti-brhaminsm/Self respect movment: is discrimination, hostility or prejudice directed against the Brahmin caste, as opposed to Anti-Hinduism which rejects Hinduism as a whole. Elst (2004) the famed Belgian historian characterized this treatment "the Indian equivalent of anti-Semitism" Tamil Nadu is home to one of the oldest Anti-Brahminism movements in India, the tamil majority elected DMK & AIADMK (elected non-stop by tamil majority voters states since 1977) that were born out of self-respect movement had "had foundation of anti-Brahminism"(Gail Omvedt ,2006, ISBN 8125028951).

Dravidianism: “ Dravidianism grew out of anti-Brahminism (directed specifically against Brahmins and generally towards non-tamils who were seen dominating the institutions of south India). In the hands of E.V. Ramaswami ('Periyar') in since the 1950s it was associated with a vision of Dravidian and Shudra primacy against 'Aryan' Brahminism associated with North India.”(Navareuban Selvy, Volume 22 - Issue 05, Mar. 03 - 21, 2001, paragraph 06 Frontline, India's National Magazine, from the publishers of THE HINDU)

Now I might a just an average guy who’s only knowledge of politics comes from his minor in political-philosophy but according to George Jacob Holyoake(secular grand philosopher who coined the term "secularism" in 1883)"in pluralists secular society the political parties advocating hate-politics are usually banned and outlawed because the majority that they draw their support from (in this case the Tamil voters of south India ) reject their racial-linguistic politics for the broader fraternity, inclusiveness and affiliation of the country"(J. McCabe, 1908, pg. 61, para. 03).

But what do a grand philosophers of secularism like Holyoake and simple pre-med undergrads like me know about Indian politics, so lets read what Doctor Abhishek Kapoor, Phd(d) who was a guest lecturer for my poli-science class said in this research thesis “…and Indian Secularism By a Constitutional amendment in 1976, India became a 'secular' State. But this is only in name. Neither the Indian State nor the Indian society is secular in the real sense of the term. 'Secularism' as is understood in the world context is a far cry from the 'secularism' that is being practiced by the State or articulated by the political parties, whether they are of the left, centre or the right. Separation of governance from religion is now observed more in its breach than in its observance.”(Kapoor, 2007, para. 23, pd. 11)

- Professor Abhishek Kapoor , Phd(d) is a visiting scholar from India to ACDIS in 2006, who analyzes the impacts of the politics of religion throughout South Asia, and the potential for improved civil society in the region through stronger secular institutions in an ACDIS Occasional Paper, Secularism and the Politics of Religion in south-asia. Here is one just one sample of his many works: http://www.acdis.uiuc.edu/Research/OPs/Kapoor/KapoorOP.pdf
 
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I thought so to, but then I borrowed an engineering books from one of my engineering collegues entitle "Engeineering review manual, 7th edition, 1986, ISBN 0-932276-44-X by Micheal R. Lindeburg, MscN, Phd, Dsc(d)"
Table 11.2 on page 77 indicates that less then 10% of damns constructed experience failure based on structural or external variable. For external variable(earth quake, war), . it gave the example how only 3 damns were destroyed during the 2nd world war, two by allies and 1 by axis. In total as of 1986 when this book was published there were only 14 dam failures in this past 100 years.As of 2006 there are 6 more incidenences (Opuha Dam(1997), Vodní nádrž Soběnov(2002), Big Bay Dam(2004), Camará Dam(2004), Shakidor Dam(2005), and Taum Sauk reservoir(2005)

As of 3-gorge Dam the construction started in 1994, construction 80% complete and projected to be operational until about 2011, and if the past treands are true when it has around 90% chance of success

No one questioed whether it could be done, but the cost of taking up such a massive project such as this to humour Pakistan. There is no such thing called fre lunch, it is in Chinas interest to have the conflict simmering between the two nations and you cannot really expect them to do you such a massive favour. Welcome to the world of realpolitik.

To each his own, like I said before that is my personal opinion which is partially based on academic analysis from one of my anthropology classes I took, but of course taking a 4 month course does not make me an expert in anthropology and as stated before these are just my personal opinions, for all I know there could be as many number of un-intelligent, cowardly, stupid and daft Tamils as there are with opposite traits

Nice to hear that you had learnt a bit about Tamil culture and you had a good opinions, but the fact of the matter is there are equal number of foolish or dumb Tamils as in any part of the world.

Tamils flee Sri Lankan war for jobs in India; Families sell possessions to make journey."(WORLD)(BRIEFING: WESTERN ASIA)
Publication Date: 18-NOV-06
Publication Title: The Washington Times
by S. Makenthiran, B.A., FCCA.

"Expatriation under Srimavo-Sashtri Pact: 500,000
Fled to India without Srimavo-Sashtri Pact(before 2006): 200,000
Average srilankan tamil arrival to india(since 2006) : 12000-16000 per year"(Makenthiran, 2008, para. 11, chart 7)
I think the numbers pretty much speak for themselves.

As for the suicide bombing connection well there is Tamil Nadu Liberation Army (TNLA) which is registered under the India's Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA) on July 2, 2002(which means it officially exists and is acknowledged by government of India). This group was affiliated with Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) and provided mutual support, as was done in the case of one Thenmuli Rajaratnam against Rajiv Gandhi in the city of Chennai.

I am sorry but the refugees are confined to refugee camps in Rameshwaram, a remote corner in the state of Tamilnadu. I have lived all my life in Tamilnadu and have never come across a Srilankan Tamil. The fact of the matter is that they are willing to flee to Norway, Canada, UK, US rather than come to Tamilnadu, they feel much secure there rather than here.

TNLA is gone , it is nothing more than a pack of sandlwood smuggleers and bank robbers. They vanished at their height when they kidnapped a Kannada actor under a Sandlwood brigand. He was their leader and after his killing there were ten or so members left and allmost all were arrested or went to jobs.

Frankly before Rajiv Gandhis assasination LTTE and pro seccsionist movements were active , but after his assasination one had to choose between extremism and development and thankfully the people choose the latter. There was an enormous crackdown on LTTE and its supporters, even if a poster sprang up , people got arrested.

Appreciate you giving me time out of your doubtlessly busy life but I am already knee deep in scholarly academic research journals from south-Indian academics who paint quiet a no-holds bar picture of an average person in DravidaNadu, so a respectful no thanks from me

No, problem .. I am currently in vacation and have all the time in the world.
Believe me scholarly journals are the last thing you would want to read in order to understand south india. most of these so called south Indian scholars are rooted in extremist view as far as i have come across, they are totally blind towards the development in IT AND INDUSTRIES most of them ae averse to it, some of them are still living in 70's when the dravidian movement was in full swing. Believe me my friend when I tell you that Humanities education sucks in south India and attracts the worst talent in south India, all the best talent go to engineering , so have caution when reading journals..

I agree, as a med student I know that humans have enough misery without worrying about putting food in their bellies, around 800 million to one billion people go to sleep each day hungry and thirsty, it shouldn't happen anywhere at anytime

I s that number referring to India, I am sorry I think its wrong , or are you referring to global hunger and poverty.

Hehehe love your use of peacock-words to parry the terms I mentioned that are widely known in academia to be synonymous with south-India’s socio-politics. As always I am here to help I will re-write the terms with definitions and then perhaps you can enlighten me on how they display as you quote the "beauty of India, groups living according to its wishes/language/destiny

There is no parrying or peacock words, the fact of the matter is in India people chart their own destiny and Andhra pradesh, karnataka, Tamilnadu stand testimony to it , we choose development and education and we have been successfull in it. Bihar, MP,Rjasthan UP, Orissa choose to remain sick and they are living it that way. Nagaland etc remain to live their tribal culture and they continue to do so with a dash of Rock music.

Anti-brhaminsm/Self respect movment: is discrimination, hostility or prejudice directed against the Brahmin caste, as opposed to Anti-Hinduism which rejects Hinduism as a whole. Elst (2004) the famed Belgian historian characterized this treatment "the Indian equivalent of anti-Semitism" Tamil Nadu is home to one of the oldest Anti-Brahminism movements in India, the tamil majority elected DMK & AIADMK (elected non-stop by tamil majority voters states since 1977) that were born out of self-respect movement had "had foundation of anti-Brahminism"(Gail Omvedt ,2006, ISBN 8125028951).

Funny that you mention antibrahminism.. The leader of AIADMK is herself a brahmin and had been the CM for 2 terms. Yes, true that the movement had hate for brahminism but the fact is they had hate for everything hindi and north India. The movement used to be at its peak during 70's but nowadays all these politicos have become moderate except grumbling it during elections time and people give two hoots about it. The significant issue here is that people here are not elected because of dravidian cause but the dravidian parties are elected because of personallity politics. The two leaders Karunanidhi and opposition Jayalalitha attract enormous personallity cult following that if they step out of their parties no one wil vote for that party.
 
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Respected indiapakistanfriendship,

Of course this is a free forum and definitively I can't and won't press you or anyone to conduct scholarly academic debate with me if they chose not, but if it is fine with you then I will not choose to further response to this discussion unless you can provide references to your statements with credible academic citations (I would prefer double-blind peer reviewed citations but can also tolerate single refereeing as well). Again you don't have to do it and I will not mind since I am sure you are doing this just like me for fun more then anything else. Until then lets agree to disagree.

Regards
 
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