Separation of Mosque and State

[I.R.A]

oh yeah I just posted the article, doesn't mean I agree with that statement.

O bai I quoted an excerpt from an article that happens to be posted by you, and by doing that you got automatically quoted by me ................ where did I say its your personal statement

 

[EnggineerShahjehan]

With mosque u meant Islam?

 

[malik_qasim]

intervention of mosque in the states affair have decimated the country..
it have created Frankenstein monsters and draconian laws,
people prosper only (that is until you stumble upon a vast reserves of oil) by modernizing, both in thinking(oil money can not buy you manners tho) and in the way of life, there is no other way..
clinging to your traditions is never a good sign, specially when you have very inhuman tradition in your society
like dowry, cast system, bride and cattle stealing, jatti sati, Kali, trading daughters for murder compensations etc
and religion is part of this package,
it legitimize and empower tribalism, feudalism and traditions..
so people who think, that religion is the solution,
well it is not.. it is the part of the problem.
and time is a rude awakening..
its just like,
you do not let a drunken guy drive a car
he will wreck it, and might also kill some innocent bystanders along with himself.
the car is our state
and the drunk is a man with religious motivation, shell we say like Zia,
the wreak is the state of moral standards and education system we have in our country now..
so now we should choose a sober driver..

 

[I.R.A]

so now we should choose a sober driver..

Like?

 

[Awan68]

I never said all musli

I think you misunderstood my comments..

My belief is we are living in the end times. The hadith point to the corruption of the mosque and the so - called scholars. So there should be a separation of the mosque and state during these corrupt times.

My only argument different from yours is that w

I think you misunderstood my comments..

My belief is we are living in the end times. The hadith point to the corruption of the mosque and the so - called scholars. So there should be a separation of the mosque and state during these corrupt times.

My only argument different from yours is that we don't agree on how that would happen. You say all muslims should strive to be better muslims. I say we need to reform the entire institution especially at the leadership scholar mullah etc. Level first then work down.

I never said all muslims need to reform themselves, that is impossible at a micro level, what we need is total collaspe of this parlimentry system, we need a new constitution that reflects thr caliphate system of islam, we need to introdice the islamic economic system, we need to apply the sharia law of quran here in pakistan, every element of the state shoukd reflect the old islamic govt system, every sectarian mullah should be shot at point blank range, every asshole who earns millions of islam here should be dealt so with death, we need a system that appoints imams at every mosque of this country, those imam's should've a degree from a govt sanctioned institution not a private one, no place of worship based on sectarian grounds to be allowed in pakistan, matters of islam should only be judged by high end scholars with phd's in islamic research, we need to go back the system that originated out of medina, not the one imposed by crusaders after the arab spring in arabia, we need that religion back that encouraged education when europe was in darkness, we need that religion back that compelled people to give most of the basic foundations of science, by Allah this jahalat is and has been imposed upon us by foriegn powers who ensure that no true islamic scholars gain influence in pakistan but only sectarian mullahs who strive on blood money and peers who form gaddi's, we dont need separation of mosque and state, we need to own our mosques again and repell the zionist paid mullah out of there, we abandoned our religion and that is why islam is in this state today, that is our responsibility we need to own our religion again or else believe me Allah will degrade us and forward His work through some other nation, hazrat umar(ra) said "we were a degraded people and Allah gave us honour through islam hence if we seek respect through anything other than islam Allah will degrade us" ...

 

[Vapnope]

Secularism as a system has failed? Lol
Where Junaid Jamshed went after he was accused of Blasphemy, Iran, Saudi Arabia or UK?
Which countries do we run to when fanatics issue fatwas against us, secular countries or religious countries?

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Mosque and State is already separated. Don't label Zia's Wahabi/Deobandi regime as the representative of true Islam.
Believe me, all the minority rights in Pakistan are given by Islam. Otherwise European countries are even trying to ban the scarf which is totally against human rights.

These threads should not be allowed on this forum. Otherwise there will be a tit for tat.

 

[Awan68]

Let me correct your self righteous tirade a bit. Scrutiny is welcome, baseless rants without ANY reference or knowledge whatsoever provided are not. In your parroting of "Islamism" is the problem, you have utterly failed to provide even a single reference to support your argument other than strawman opinions. Opinions which when challenged you try to shoot tangents on everything but the question like a lizard sheds its tail under threat. In that manner, you are NO differrent from the very "Islamists" you decry.
Like you, they too present spurious arguments built on shallow references to suit their beliefs.
Like you, They too present tangential dogmas and try to assert sole ownership or whine of mistreatment and Islam being in danger as you present the opposite.

Lets not pretend that you are ANY different from those in beards in your thought process. One tends to have a big beard for show , speaks in gutteral Arabic sounding accents, and spouts meaningless arguments and hollow refernces. We have had plenty of them come on as well, and they too cite the same "keep deleting my posts, keep damaging the sanctity of holy duty" etc etc in an effort to paint themselves as a martyr as you are trying to do now.

But they are not martyrs for Islam, and neither are you for Secularism or westernism or whatever isms you want to spout. At the end, you and them are fanatics looking for their 5 minutes of fame. Pseudo intellectuals who use and promote wilful ignorance in an attempt to forward their agenda and beliefs.

Yes, you will have your supporters as they do. Some who actually believe your pablum and others that just like to spite Pakistan and Muslims for their own egoistic masturbation. But just as for the Caliphate idealists , we do implement censorship and we will restrict your views because fake and spurious information deserves to be quashed by those that read and research with honesty.

With that, I will graciously grant you permanent leave from this thread so that your whimsical and baseless nonsense no longer wastes what could be positive discussion.

Dont feel too bad, you are not that important to be singled out as this treatment is reserved for many like you in various subjects and various threads who do nothing but parrot ideas they cannot prove but want to shove down everyone's throat anyway.

Whats wrong with caliphate idealists buddy??, do u mean that u shun the caliphate system given by Allah and His prophet(pbuh)??, do u prefer the systems given by aristotle and karl marx over the system of prophet(pbuh), stick to one side huh, its always best, if the wrong people are propogating an ideology doesnt neccesarily mean that the ideology is wrong, the presidential system is an english version inspired by islamic caliphate system..

I think you misunderstood my comments..

My belief is we are living in the end times. The hadith point to the corruption of the mosque and the so - called scholars. So there should be a separation of the mosque and state during these corrupt times.

My only argument different from yours is that we don't agree on how that would happen. You say all muslims should strive to be better muslims. I say we need to reform the entire institution especially at the leadership scholar mullah etc. Level first then work down.

Are u saying that u are just againat the idiotic mullah's and advocate their separation from the state or are u saying that we should adopt secularism and abandon islam as the state relgion and the principle authority??, cause i belive in abolishing the entire mullah system and introducing an imam system with govt certified degree's, and phd scholars in islamic research the only one's responsible for explanation of islam...

Secularism as a system has failed? Lol
Where Junaid Jamshed went after he was accused of Blasphemy, Iran, Saudi Arabia or UK?
Which countries do we run to when fanatics issue fatwas against us, secular countries or religious countries?

Try running to america or uk after publically advocating hate against them, see what happens kiddo, ur argument is totally unrelated and idiotic, secularism has killed more people in 5 decades than religion has done in 2 millinieums..

 

[malik_qasim]

Like?

any one who the people will choose will suffice for the job, as long as he does not bind future generations from revoking or redesigning the laws.
laws should be made to serve people, people should not serve laws or regulatory bodies.
laws could be subjected to be amended, changed or revoked as the need should arise.
and people should have the right to choose there own gods and devils..
as long as these points are checked any person will suffice..

 

[Vapnope]

Try running to america or uk after publically advocating hate against them, see what happens kiddo, ur argument is totally unrelated and idiotic, secularism has killed more people in 5 decades than religion has done in 2 millinieums..

Baba ji, Where do Noam Chomsky, Micheal Moore and Bernie Sander live? Where did Anjem Chaudhry lived and openly used hate speech?
Tell me where was the last time a guy said secularism is great and killed many people?
There is a difference between nationalists wars and secularism, clearly you have no idea.

 

[Awan68]

Baba ji, Where do Noam Chomsky, Micheal Moore and Bernie Sander live? Where did Anjem Chaudhry lived and openly used hate speech?
Tell me where was the last time a guy said secularism is great and killed many people?
There is a difference between nationalists wars and secularism, clearly you have no idea.

Clearly u have no idea where secularism originated from and what it did after in gained power, the problem with u people is that u dont bother to read history or undertsand philosophy aur a jate hen aristotle ban kar, kabhi karl marx ko parhne ke zehmat kar lo, lenin air stalin ke bary men bhi pata kar lo, phir karen ge bat, hen bache..

 

[Vapnope]

Clearly u have no idea where secularism originated from and what it did after in gained power, the problem with u people is that u dont bother to read history or undertsand philosophy aur a jate hen aristotle ban kar, kabhi karl marx ko parhne ke zehmat kar lo, lenin air stalin ke bary men bhi pata kar lo, phir karen ge bat, hen bache..

Funny part is that you are assuming too much without a slightest inkling about what i have read or not. lol Baba ji

 

[TMA]

USSR was a communist state - Communism as an ideology thought religion to be a competing entity and therefore - in effect banned it.

A secular state doesn't say there can be no organized religion or that people can't practice their faith - it simply says, the govt cannot and should not make decisions based on religion.

There are varying degrees to which countries are secular - for example - the French and Americans see things quite differently!

One can be a nationalist and secularist, one can be a communist and secularist, one can be a monarchist and secularist.

True secularism does not mean to completely eradicate religion at least not in the personal realm but in its extreme form religion can be completely eradicated. IMHO this is a hidden agenda of those who have created the Secular world. Take man away from his creator.

 

[Zeeshan Farooqi]

I totally agreed with Quaid Muhammad Ali Jinnah,s above statement.

 

[mzain]

Pakistan is an Islamic state and You can not separate Islam from state. Islam thought us how to govern and how to rule and how to run any state. (that is different story that we are not following Islam as we should)