Separation of Mosque and State

[Hassan Guy]

Those who say that Islam should have no role in state matters need to decide whether they are Muslims or not because Islam has clearly role in all state matters. State has the prime responsibility in Islam to implement laws given by ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW. So in Pakistan not matter How much seculars hate it, laws have to be made in accordance with Quran and Sunnah and those who have issue with it are free to go to secular west. We are not seculars and never will be and any attempt to bring secularism in Pakistan will be defeated.

Dude that's some straight up bs, religion just can't have a place in state.

 

[SQ8]

It's not about winning the argument. Islamism is killing people. And I will say that a 100 times. You can keep deleting my posts, mate. In matters related to religion (esp. Islam), Intellectual and emotional energy is usually narrowly channeled into a rigid dogmatic point of view that cannot withstand scrutiny and has hence to be defended with fanaticism and violence ... And with censorship ... That's all you can do ... Apologists like yourself are doing no service to Islam or Pakistan

Let me correct your self righteous tirade a bit. Scrutiny is welcome, baseless rants without ANY reference or knowledge whatsoever provided are not. In your parroting of "Islamism" is the problem, you have utterly failed to provide even a single reference to support your argument other than strawman opinions. Opinions which when challenged you try to shoot tangents on everything but the question like a lizard sheds its tail under threat. In that manner, you are NO differrent from the very "Islamists" you decry.
Like you, they too present spurious arguments built on shallow references to suit their beliefs.
Like you, They too present tangential dogmas and try to assert sole ownership or whine of mistreatment and Islam being in danger as you present the opposite.

Lets not pretend that you are ANY different from those in beards in your thought process. One tends to have a big beard for show , speaks in gutteral Arabic sounding accents, and spouts meaningless arguments and hollow refernces. We have had plenty of them come on as well, and they too cite the same "keep deleting my posts, keep damaging the sanctity of holy duty" etc etc in an effort to paint themselves as a martyr as you are trying to do now.

But they are not martyrs for Islam, and neither are you for Secularism or westernism or whatever isms you want to spout. At the end, you and them are fanatics looking for their 5 minutes of fame. Pseudo intellectuals who use and promote wilful ignorance in an attempt to forward their agenda and beliefs.

Yes, you will have your supporters as they do. Some who actually believe your pablum and others that just like to spite Pakistan and Muslims for their own egoistic masturbation. But just as for the Caliphate idealists , we do implement censorship and we will restrict your views because fake and spurious information deserves to be quashed by those that read and research with honesty.

With that, I will graciously grant you permanent leave from this thread so that your whimsical and baseless nonsense no longer wastes what could be positive discussion.

Dont feel too bad, you are not that important to be singled out as this treatment is reserved for many like you in various subjects and various threads who do nothing but parrot ideas they cannot prove but want to shove down everyone's throat anyway.

 

[Awan68]

No i

Exactly... beautifully said. I believe we are in this time. So isn't it only logical that in such a time that there should be a separation of state and the failing mosque?



Don't worrg too much about younge minds reading about secularism and getting "influenced" ... rather worry about them getting influenced by extremists.

Look at the poll... majority are for separation of mosque and state.

no it means we strife to correct pur religion and restore it to what it was in the glory days, it doesnt mean we should abandon it as a system for government and life, i seriously pity u people, dont u know that Allah exists??, dont u know that u will be held accountable for propogating ideologies thst are contradictory to His relgion??,

 

[Clutch]

No i

no it means we strife to correct pur religion and restore it to what it was in the glory days, it doesnt mean we should abandon it as a system for government and life, i seriously pity u people, dont u know that Allah exists??, dont u know that u will be held accountable for propogating ideologies thst are contradictory to His relgion??,

I think you misunderstood my comments..

My belief is we are living in the end times. The hadith point to the corruption of the mosque and the so - called scholars. So there should be a separation of the mosque and state during these corrupt times.

My only argument different from yours is that we don't agree on how that would happen. You say all muslims should strive to be better muslims. I say we need to reform the entire institution especially at the leadership scholar mullah etc. Level first then work down.

 

[SQ8]

I think you misunderstood my comments..

My belief is we are living in the end times. The hadith point to the corruption of the mosque and the so - called scholars. So there should be a separation of the mosque and state during these corrupt times.

My only argument different from yours is that we don't agree on how that would happen. You say all muslims should strive to be better muslims. I say we need to reform the entire institution especially at the leadership scholar mullah etc. Level first then work down.

The greatest problem we have had, and it was echoed by a TT here as well. Is that somewhere back in the 12th century, the process of ijtehad was slowly sidelined. Instead of a regular important process applied to every changing scenario, technology, culture and so on.. it was "thought" that somehow all that had to be understood about Islam had been understood; not so much by the renowned scholars as much as a general lesser informed and knowledgeable Muslim ruling class and their subjects.

 

[Zarvan]

So, going by your your logic, every time someone who "calls himself" Muslim commits a crime (any crime), Islam is to be blamed ? ..... You really are dumb

You are blaming I am not. And you posts are clearly showing who is in denial and running away from truth

It is secular by law and constitution, if equality is not implemented on ground then thats the bigotry of the people and not of the govt.

It's bigotry of Government

Dude that's some straight up bs, religion just can't have a place in state.

Islam is all about state. Sorry there can be no state without Islam. Islam and State are same thing. Those who are trying to separate in their mind are either ignorant about Islam it's orders or just don't accept Islam.

 

[abdulbarijan]

@Hassan Guy Your original post has been reported for using the n-word (in the poll). Please don't use words such words again, as they are very offensive and outright disgusting against a specific group of people!

I used the one that ended in 'a' and not 'er', jeez people get triggered so easily nowdays


you quoted the wrong guy, never said that

Young man it's not about being triggered, this forum is viewed by an audience that is world wide hence certain rules and norms are and should be followed.

 

[Knight Rider]

In Pakistan, Secularists are not slitting throats of innocent people while chanting "Secularism is great" ... Communists are not blowing themselves up in mosques and churches shouting "Lenin is great" ....... Get a life dude

Baseless Argument !!!!!! Khwaraij and Paid Terrorists are cutting the throats of innocent Muslims who don't even know the ABC of Islam, don't you point finger at Islam teachings "Enough is Enough". Khwaraij don't even say prayers or read Quran but live in mountains and Afghanistan. Look at ISIS full of rubbish backed by Wahabis and Blackmailing Sunni people. ISIS scumbags waving flags of Islam who can't even write kalma right. Pakistan will never become a secular country and those pathetic Jewish dreams will scatter. Suicide Bombing happened on Mosques and in Moharram few years back and poor Sunni & Shia Muslims people get killed. General Raheel Sharif and army has eliminated Khwaraij, RAW, NDS, CIA and Wahabi Terrorists through Zarb-e-Azb.

Mosque is home of Allah Almighty and we will say our 5 prayers there forever. As for Pakistan, it will always remain an Islamic Republic and Jewish schemes will fail Insha Allah.

Majority of Pakistani Muslims respect the rights of our minorities like Christians,Hindus and Sikhs etc according to the teaching of Islam.

 

[I.R.A]

The struggle for the recognition of Ahmadis as Muslims is a lost cause.

The thread title and the article somewhat don't correlate.

For the article ...... Qadiyanis themselves are confused about my status (Non Qadiyani), they can't say it openly but would sugar coat and tell me that according to this and that and that I am Muslim but a Kaffir at the same time. And there is a difference between a Kaffir Kaffir and a Muslim Kaffir. So they don't consider me a kaffir kaffir but a Muslim kaffir and to get more clarification on this I should seek fatwa from one of my side's mufti.

As for the thread title Mosques are nobody's property and saying that mosques have any role in running affairs of Pakistan is ignoring the facts and realities. But for the sake of argument which mosque? The Sunni deo bandi mosque? Sunni Bralevi mosque? Ahle Hadees mosque? Sipah Sahabah mosque? Shia Mosque? Bohri jamat khana? which one?

 

[Hassan Guy]

@Hassan Guy Your original post has been reported for using the n-word (in the poll). Please don't use words such words again, as they are very offensive and outright disgusting against a specific group of people!

I used the one that ended in 'a' and not 'er', jeez people get triggered so easily nowdays

The thread title and the article somewhat don't correlate.

For the article ...... Qadiyanis themselves are confused about my status (Non Qadiyani), they can't say it openly but would sugar coat and tell me that according to this and that and that I am Muslim but a Kaffir at the same time. And there is a difference between a Kaffir Kaffir and a Muslim Kaffir. So they don't consider me a kaffir kaffir but a Muslim kaffir and to get more clarification on this I should seek fatwa from one of my side's mufti.

As for the thread title Mosques are nobody's property and saying that mosques have any role in running affairs of Pakistan is ignoring the facts and realities. But for the sake of argument which mosque? The Sunni deo bandi mosque? Sunni Bralevi mosque? Ahle Hadees mosque? Sipah Sahabah mosque? Shia Mosque? Bohri jamat khana? which one?

you quoted the wrong guy, never said anything about ahmedis.
I said free the state from religion

 

[I.R.A]

you quoted the wrong guy, never said anything about ahmedis.
I said free the state from religion

I quoted an excerpt from the article, it happens that it was posted by you.

 

[Hassan Guy]

I quoted an excerpt from the article, it happens that it was posted by you.

oh yeah I just posted the article, doesn't mean I agree with that statement.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

..

 

[Rakesh]

Secularism has failed as a system.

But, it is our last hope!

 

[Lucky Breeze]