Separation of Mosque and State

[Aasimkhan]

https://themuslimtimes.info/2016/05...only-way-forward-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/

Pakistan needs sweeping constitutional amendments to ensure equality of citizens regardless of their faith or sect
Source: The Nation

By Muntazir Sherazi, who enjoys classic rock and politics. Often at the same time

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed—that has nothing to do with the business of the state.”

– Muhammad Ali Jinnah

The prophetic words by the founder of our nation clearly show what he conceived the state of Pakistan as. But looking back on our history, we can clearly see that we’re way past that.

The struggle for the recognition of Ahmadis as Muslims is a lost cause. An average Pakistani has been so brainwashed that he will never accept them as such and crimes against/persecution of Ahmadis won’t stop under the current Constitution.

Christians and Hindus are similarly marginalised, with many of Pakistani Hindus going to India and India accepting them with open arms. We know about the kidnapping and forced conversions of Hindu girls to Islam. We are similarly aware of the attacks on churches and the failure of the government to provide them with security. We are callous.

There should be sweeping constitutional amendments which declare all Pakistanis as equal citizens, regardless of their faith or sect. When your law says that a non-Muslim cannot be a president or prime minister of your country, you’re already promoting discrimination in the society and inoculating the idea that religion can be used to persecute people and to discriminate against them.

This very ideology has pushed the Pakistani society towards religious extremism and the alienation of Pakistani minorities will lead to more violent outbursts by the bearded men.

Simply put, you don’t have to agree that Ahmadis are Muslims. But this idea that Ahmadis are a subhuman species and should be persecuted accordingly is inhumane. With laws that put Ahmadi publishers of the Quran in jail, we can safely say that Zia’s Islami nizam has only divided our society on the basis of sectarianism.

Bulls__t article, Pakistani minorities have more independence than in France and most cointries of Europe, Ahmadis are a stab in the back of Islam because they call themselves as muslims, whereas, by definition, they are not. I support constitution of Pakistan, any effort to change constitution of Pakistan to accept Ahmedis as muslims will he and mustI be resisted

Do you even know what Secularism means ??

Nationalism and Capitalism indeed have killed a lot of people

And now it is Islamism ... killing people From Philippines to Americas

It is secularists who have dropped nuclear bombs on Nagasaki and Heroshima Mr Azlan

 

[Zarvan]

https://themuslimtimes.info/2016/05...only-way-forward-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/

Pakistan needs sweeping constitutional amendments to ensure equality of citizens regardless of their faith or sect
Source: The Nation

By Muntazir Sherazi, who enjoys classic rock and politics. Often at the same time

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed—that has nothing to do with the business of the state.”

– Muhammad Ali Jinnah

The prophetic words by the founder of our nation clearly show what he conceived the state of Pakistan as. But looking back on our history, we can clearly see that we’re way past that.

The struggle for the recognition of Ahmadis as Muslims is a lost cause. An average Pakistani has been so brainwashed that he will never accept them as such and crimes against/persecution of Ahmadis won’t stop under the current Constitution.

Christians and Hindus are similarly marginalised, with many of Pakistani Hindus going to India and India accepting them with open arms. We know about the kidnapping and forced conversions of Hindu girls to Islam. We are similarly aware of the attacks on churches and the failure of the government to provide them with security. We are callous.

There should be sweeping constitutional amendments which declare all Pakistanis as equal citizens, regardless of their faith or sect. When your law says that a non-Muslim cannot be a president or prime minister of your country, you’re already promoting discrimination in the society and inoculating the idea that religion can be used to persecute people and to discriminate against them.

This very ideology has pushed the Pakistani society towards religious extremism and the alienation of Pakistani minorities will lead to more violent outbursts by the bearded men.

Simply put, you don’t have to agree that Ahmadis are Muslims. But this idea that Ahmadis are a subhuman species and should be persecuted accordingly is inhumane. With laws that put Ahmadi publishers of the Quran in jail, we can safely say that Zia’s Islami nizam has only divided our society on the basis of sectarianism.

Those who say that Islam should have no role in state matters need to decide whether they are Muslims or not because Islam has clearly role in all state matters. State has the prime responsibility in Islam to implement laws given by ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW. So in Pakistan not matter How much seculars hate it, laws have to be made in accordance with Quran and Sunnah and those who have issue with it are free to go to secular west. We are not seculars and never will be and any attempt to bring secularism in Pakistan will be defeated.

 

[Clutch]

Voted Yes, because the mosque is generally full of jahils.

 

[Moonlight]

Those who say that Islam should have no role in state matters need to decide whether they are Muslims or not

Wow. Hold on. That's heavy. Having an opinion doesn't make you a non Muslim. "Should have no role" you said. That sounds like an opinion not like denying something Islam preaches.

 

[Zarvan]

Voted Yes, because the mosque is generally full of jahils.

Well I have same opinion on politicians and those who run state and even many who study in elite Universities. They are far bigger educated and corrupt and dangerous

 

[M. Sarmad]

There is nothing wrong to challenge the mindset but you can only win the argument with wisdom. By offending others with statements like Islamism kills and Secularism doesn't you are doing no favour to yourself and will only engage in mudslinging rather than any constructive debate of logic

It's not about winning the argument. Islamism is killing people. And I will say that a 100 times. You can keep deleting my posts, mate. In matters related to religion (esp. Islam), Intellectual and emotional energy is usually narrowly channeled into a rigid dogmatic point of view that cannot withstand scrutiny and has hence to be defended with fanaticism and violence ... And with censorship ... That's all you can do ... Apologists like yourself are doing no service to Islam or Pakistan

 

[war&peace]

Those who say that Islam should have no role in state matters need to decide whether they are Muslims or not because Islam has clearly role in all state matters. State has the prime responsibility in Islam to implement laws given by ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW. So in Pakistan not matter How much seculars hate laws have to be made in accordance with Quran and Sunnah and those who have issue with it are free to go to secular west. We are not seculars and never will be and any attempt to bring secularism in Pakistan will be defeated.

Exactly bro...salute..100% agreed

 

[Zarvan]

It's not about winning the argument. Islamism is killing people. And I will say that a 100 times. You can keep deleting my posts, mate. In matters related to religion (esp. Islam), Intellectual and emotional energy is usually narrowly channeled into a rigid dogmatic point of view that cannot withstand scrutiny and has hence to be defended with fanaticism and violence ... And with censorship ... That's all you can do ... Apologists like yourself are doing no service to Islam or Pakistan

Islamism is not killing people and your secularism and communism have killed lot more people than so called Islamism so stop come up with false history World War II was fought between secular countires it had nothing to do with Islam. War of Vietnam had nothing to do with Islam I can go on and on. So secularism have killed lot more people than so called Islamism.

 

[Clutch]

Well I have same opinion on politicians and those who run state and even many who study in elite Universities. They are far bigger educated and corrupt and dangerous

Yes... I also agree with you on this. But the question was about the mosque. But who is the bigger danger... i still say the mosque. Because they preach hatred versus the politician who preaches greed. Both are corrupt in their own ways but only one blows up innocent children and women.

 

[Hyde]

It's not about winning the argument. Islamism is killing people. And I will say that a 100 times. You can keep deleting my posts, mate. In matters related to religion (esp. Islam), Intellectual and emotional energy is usually narrowly channeled into a rigid dogmatic point of view that cannot withstand scrutiny and has hence to be defended with fanaticism and violence ... And with censorship ... That's all you can do ... Apologists like yourself are doing no service to Islam or Pakistan

Its 2am and I am trying to sleep

Relax I didn't delete your post so please do not accuse me for nothing, it was someone else. Although it did violate some rule so it was well within his jurisdiction

 

[Zarvan]

Yes... I also agree with you on this. But the question was about the mosque. But who is the bigger danger... i still say the mosque. Because they preach hatred versus the politician who preaches greed. Both are corrupt in their own ways but only one blows up innocent children and women.

Politicians also preach hate. MQM is secular part so is BLA and ANP the secular party had massive history of terrorism.The goons of PML N are also quite a killers nothing to do with Islam.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Islamism is not killing people and your secularism and communism have killed lot more people than so called Islamism so stop come up with false history World War II was fought between secular countires it had nothing to do with Islam. War of Vietnam had nothing to do with Islam I can go on and on. So secularism have killed lot more people than so called Islamism.

In Pakistan, Secularists are not slitting throats of innocent people while chanting "Secularism is great" ... Communists are not blowing themselves up in mosques and churches shouting "Lenin is great" ....... Get a life dude

 

[Zarvan]

In Pakistan, Secularists are not slitting throats of innocent people while chanting "Secularism is great" ... Communists are not blowing themselves up in mosques and churches shouting "Lenin is great" ....... Get a life dude

BLA is secular part so is MQM and ANP had long history of killing people so give me a break. Communists have been involved in terrorism in Pakistan specially in Baluchistan and also interior Sindh. So please stop making bad attempts of defending seculars which is nothing but crap and delusions of mindsets. You are the one who needs to get a life.

 

[M. Sarmad]

BLA is secular part so is MQM and ANP had long history of killing people so give me a break. Communists have been involved in terrorism in Pakistan specially in Baluchistan and also interior Sindh. So please stop making bad attempts of defending seculars which is nothing but crap and delusions of mindsets. You are the one who needs to get a life.

None of them is killing people "in the name of secularism" ......

Try again

 

[Zarvan]

None of them is killing people "in the name of secularism" ......

Try again

They are killing people and call themselves secular parties and want to keep religion and state separate so cut the crap and get a life .