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Sensitive Data of Indian Navy’s Scorpene Class Submarines Leaked

Thanks for your detailed analysis! I'm impressed with your Structural,Fluids,E&E know how!


Abusign Navy personnel? When did they become a holy cow?

Not sure why everyone loves complaining to @Parikarma

And when does the Aussie Reporter Being to be the Gospel Truth!?
 
The possibility is, they came to know about the deliberate disinformation by DGSE and RAW to misguide the Chinese and Chinese when came to know about it now trying to use these documents to defame the image of French DCNS on security breach issues.

Plausible but not convincing.

Note that France is also one of the biggest supporter of China in spite of EU sanctions. So China taking down France is not very convincing.

More over timing of the leak is tied to the Aussie Sub deal needs to be considered..

There is very little probability of the Leak coming either from France, India or China.

The leak seems to be the handiwork of corrupt or disgruntled employee/contractor associated with the program working in tandem with a rival group.

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Granted, the embargo was ambiguously worded, and in the absence of enforcement mechanism it us up to individual member states to decide how and if to uphold it. Several member states, France included, have sold so-called “dual-use” items (including jet engines, helicopters and radars) to China, exploiting the grey zone. A report by the Swedish Defence Research Agency in 2010 notes that as a result of the dual-use policy, EU arms sales to China have in fact increased since 1989: EU countries’ military exports to China, excluding Hong Kong and Macao, reached a total of 134 million euros in 2006, according to the EU Annual Report on Arms Exports. However, the real export figure is higher, since certain countries do not provide data. On top of actual exports, EU member states in 2006 issued licences for arms exports to China worth 292 million euros. During 2007 reported exports were somewhat lower, at 92 million euros, and the value of licences issued was 210 million euros. In 2007, France accounted for 94 percent of licences and 99 percent of exports to China.

http://thinking-taiwan.com/will-china-buy-french-built-mistral-ships/
 
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Hello Sir Ji

DO you think that India has been Lucky in the sense that the whole Scorpene
project got Delayed

And NOW we will be able to prevent the Real damage to KALVARI
ie the one submarine completed -- we dodged a bullet

And also we can take corrective actions for the other submarines that are coming up
 
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Hello Sir Ji

DO you thinj that India has been Lucky in the sense that the whole Scorpene
project got Delayed

And NOW we will be able to prevent the Real damage to KALVARI
ie the one submarine completed -- we dodged a bullet

And also we can take corrective actions for the other submarines that are coming up

Yes. The delays are turning out to be a blessing in disguise.

We should cap scorpenes to 4 only and move ahead with P75I contract instead with either French or Russian options only.
 
Yes. The delays are turning out to be a blessing in disguise.

We should cap scorpenes to 4 only and move ahead with P75I contract instead with either French or Russian options only.

Time is also a big factor here

We have just made a new second line for submarines at MDL

And it was expected that we would go for more Scorpenes

If The navy feels that the damage can be mitigated ; contained and minimised
then more Scorpenes would come in quickly ; A new contract will take a lot of time
 
Time is also a big factor here

We have just made a new second line for submarines at MDL

And it was expected that we would go for more Scorpenes

If The navy feels that the damage can be mitigated ; contained and minimised
then more Scorpenes would come in quickly ; A new contract will take a lot of time

Agree but if you have eliminated German & Japanese from P75I then the selection could be quicker.

Why pursue a potentially compromised program? It is a huge risk.. What is unknown will be unknown.

If we cap P75 program at 4 then it implies that number would increase for P75I.

Which means India could split the order between French barracuda and Russian yasen class to expedite the induction.

Also, India could lease 3 additional nuke subs from Russia that are available to ramp up the numbers.
 
@Stephen Cohen @dadeechi
Every item that will be build in India under defence contracts will be very different from the original OEM supplied home country's product. For us the customization and proprietary installations safeguards us completely. But what we do require it to have that aspect in multiple project levels.

Lets take an example of scorpenes.
Delay is a blessing - No from IN POV bcz we needed to have all these inducted by 2017 and by now we should have negotiated the next set of follow on orders or a separate project for a better submarine.

Delay is a blessing - yes if you consider from strategic aspect that we have one SSBN and another one is very close as well and now we plan to have SSNs too. This is a right time to take the most advanced SSK available in the market and downstream the technology of the same to our MIC and MSMEs. With the capability built, we can utilise the same in our future SSN and SSBNs and also critically use a derivative of the technology to improve our indigenous product.

In terms of reality Scorpene is a 2000 timeline technology and contemporary tech of same timeline were U214, S80 and Amur series of smaller subs.. The Kilos and HDW are even 15-20 years older than these subs dated technology.

Now interestingly we want the next SSK of 2016 timeline and here lies the catch. The earlier ones even with improved products are no where good enough to help us with additional technology or MIC improvement to augment our black projects. Russia will never share Yasen or Project 885 technology with us. Japan and SOryu is more difficult bcz their export intentions are still not very comprehensive. Thus the technology left with which we can really make use in our project have very very limited choices.

Unless you get USA to come onboard which is next to impossible your next choices narrows down to the following
  • Astute - Vanguard - Successor Class tweaks - REJECTED bcz UK wont share it
  • Barracuda SSN - Triomphant SSBN -- Shortfin SSK - DCNS
An outside chance is a SSK based on Yasen but thats highly unlikely.

So the final option left is DCNS solution and we have Scorpenes already there.

and any new contract or tender will delay our plans further.

So what should we do?
The present Scorpene proprietary portion is about 1/3rd and arond 35% as far as what sources have said. SO now its a good chance we try and make it more than 50% bcz doing that gives a big capability addition to our MIC and MSME's.

With this so called data theft, we should use the opportunity and get the planned Barracuda tech forward and see how that can also flow into our MIC and MSME's so that in turn it flows to our SSBN and SSN and utilize the experience of DCNS on the same.

We should not stop our Scorpenes but now we should progressively aim at higher proprietary content and the next generation Fuel Cell AIP of theirs and also see if we can either utilize shortfin derived Scorpenes or better order Shortfin SSK directly.
 
@Stephen Cohen @dadeechi
Every item that will be build in India under defence contracts will be very different from the original OEM supplied home country's product. For us the customization and proprietary installations safeguards us completely. But what we do require it to have that aspect in multiple project levels.

Lets take an example of scorpenes.
Delay is a blessing - No from IN POV bcz we needed to have all these inducted by 2017 and by now we should have negotiated the next set of follow on orders or a separate project for a better submarine.

Delay is a blessing - yes if you consider from strategic aspect that we have one SSBN and another one is very close as well and now we plan to have SSNs too. This is a right time to take the most advanced SSK available in the market and downstream the technology of the same to our MIC and MSMEs. With the capability built, we can utilise the same in our future SSN and SSBNs and also critically use a derivative of the technology to improve our indigenous product.

In terms of reality Scorpene is a 2000 timeline technology and contemporary tech of same timeline were U214, S80 and Amur series of smaller subs.. The Kilos and HDW are even 15-20 years older than these subs dated technology.

Now interestingly we want the next SSK of 2016 timeline and here lies the catch. The earlier ones even with improved products are no where good enough to help us with additional technology or MIC improvement to augment our black projects. Russia will never share Yasen or Project 885 technology with us. Japan and SOryu is more difficult bcz their export intentions are still not very comprehensive. Thus the technology left with which we can really make use in our project have very very limited choices.

Unless you get USA to come onboard which is next to impossible your next choices narrows down to the following
  • Astute - Vanguard - Successor Class tweaks - REJECTED bcz UK wont share it
  • Barracuda SSN - Triomphant SSBN -- Shortfin SSK - DCNS
An outside chance is a SSK based on Yasen but thats highly unlikely.

So the final option left is DCNS solution and we have Scorpenes already there.

and any new contract or tender will delay our plans further.

So what should we do?
The present Scorpene proprietary portion is about 1/3rd and arond 35% as far as what sources have said. SO now its a good chance we try and make it more than 50% bcz doing that gives a big capability addition to our MIC and MSME's.

With this so called data theft, we should use the opportunity and get the planned Barracuda tech forward and see how that can also flow into our MIC and MSME's so that in turn it flows to our SSBN and SSN and utilize the experience of DCNS on the same.

We should not stop our Scorpenes but now we should progressively aim at higher proprietary content and the next generation Fuel Cell AIP of theirs and also see if we can either utilize shortfin derived Scorpenes or better order Shortfin SSK directly.

I believe that Japan and Germany having missed out on Australian Tender
will pursue the P 75 I more aggressively

BTW ; This leak is like the Pathankot Attack -- an EYE OPENER

All our systems and procedures ; Collabrations and JVs will need a security Audit

Starting from RAFALE
 
I believe that Japan and Germany having missed out on Australian Tender
will pursue the P 75 I more aggressively

BTW ; This leak is like the Pathankot Attack -- an EYE OPENER

All our systems ; procedures ; Collabrations and JVs will need a security Audit

Starting from RAFALE

Unfortunately we can only do audit on our end but when our overseas partners and vendors leak data there is not much we can do.

Only way out of it is to curtail foreign purchases and get even more focused towards in house development.
 
Unfortunately we can only do audit on our end but when our overseas partners and vendors leak data there is not much we can do.

Only way out of it is to curtail foreign purchases and get even more focused towards in house development.

We can do something about it ; it is not like we are helpless after paying so much

MOD must have started sending Queries to all its suppliers for re assurance

We will have to talk about security with Dassault for the Rafale project

The larger the project the more the chances of leaks

This is a NEW issue for all companies ; it will lead to new tools and techniques for security of data
ie where ever security was lax

USA has always been more careful given their History with the Chinese hackers

Europe needs to catch up
 

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