Senators fear China may use CPEC to enhance trade with India

[Rajaraja Chola]

Chinese export to india should be allowed with some taxes where as import from india must not be facilitated at any cost as it posses great threat to our national security as india will send chemicals and weapons to be use in terrorism in Pakistan

Lol. Why will we allow anything coming from Pakistani soil when we are reciprocated? We can also use CPEC to export things to China through Pakistan.

If Pakistan wants to block India, then it is welcome. We are poised to become 3rd largest economy with exports near 1 trillion Dollars by 2030. And a time will come where a single Indian state will export more than Pakistani economy to China.

All the best

 

[Kabira]

There is one problem with this long story... you are yet to read about CPEC. The height of ignorance about this project is amazing, your inexperience in such deals is taken advantage of.

1. It's not INVESTMENT but LOAN and that's too with unrealistic conditions. Technically one can do anything with Loan he wishes to but it's different story here. You have to pay interest which is highest anywhere in today's world (more than 5%), you commit return of 27% for coal electricity plants for which you have given free land. Worst, all expertise working on this project has to be chinese. One such eg. is Japan is financing Mumbai-Ahmadabad Bullet train project at $10 Billion@0.1% and with moratorium period of 30 yrs (no installment to be paid for first 30 yrs). In addition, after importing a fixed amount of trains, same will be produced locally for future requirements. Did it ring any bell for an all weather ally? I guess they have plan to milk you to the bones during all weathers. sorry for being so blunt.
2. I don't know other secret conditions which could be mortgages in case interest and returns are not feasible!!
3. 80% of CPEC amount is for coal fired electricity plants, only 20% (around $11 B) is for Road project... did i burst your bubble?
4. The cost/unit of this power plant has already shot up to Rs 17/unit, considering there are no delays and implemented on time. Do you think, your people are prepared to buy this costly electricity or would rather prefer to enjoy load shedding?
5. Only people who are getting benefited are your politicians and generals involved in signing off this deal whom chinese have bribed to the throat. Many of them will flee to US/UK after retirement.
6. When you are not informed about Pakistan, i don't expect you to know anything about India. Keep dancing in your la-la land,

Provide source of your claims, which projects are loans, investment etc? For exemple Gwader airport with cost of $260 million is Chinese grant. $8 billion Karachi-Peshawar railway up gradation is loan at rate of around 1%. Other projects like some motorways are on BOT basis.

You are making up lots of stuff. No one said China is giving aid to Pakistan. 95% of CPEC projects are for local use foremost including roads. Connectivity with China is added benefit.

Rs 17 is for solar project with 100MW, it will come down. Coal power plants will cost 10 cent initially but after some years will come down to 5-6.

 

[Ea Returns]

Provide source of your claims, which projects are loans, investment etc? For exemple Gwader airport with cost of $260 million is Chinese grant. $8 billion Karachi-Peshawar railway up gradation is loan at rate of around 1%. Other projects like some motorways are on BOT basis.

You are making up lots of stuff. No one said China is giving aid to Pakistan. 95% of CPEC projects are for local use foremost including roads. Connectivity with China is added benefit.

Rs 17 is for solar project with 100MW, it will come down. Coal power plants will cost 10 cent initially but after some years will come down to 5-6.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1290523
http://www.dawn.com/news/1286698/hidden-costs-of-cpec
You inflows due to CPEC will be around 2.2 % of your GDP while outflows will be around 11%

You have committed Rs 18/unit, that's how you will repay $33 Billion project of coal power plants and full fill it's rate of 27% return. This is what your media says, not me.

 

[Kabira]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1290523
http://www.dawn.com/news/1286698/hidden-costs-of-cpec
You inflows due to CPEC will be around 2.2 % of your GDP while outflows will be around 11%

You have committed Rs 18/unit, that's how you will repay $33 Billion project of coal power plants and full fill it's rate of 27% return. This is what your media says, not me.

From your link

"Outflows will also come in the form of repayment obligations on the loans taken from Chinese banks for these projects, which are expected to rise after 2021. Both of these, repayments and profit repatriation, “could reach about 0.4 per cent of GDP per year over the longer run”."

After 2021 when these projects will not only be completed but start generating revenues for state to pay back. Obviously nothing is written on stone that's why China is taking "risk". By 2021 Pakistan GDP will be about $500-600 billion. And tax collection $60-70 billion.

And your rs 18 per unit is big fat lie and I don't even want to correct you. Keep believing what you want. Thar coal will cost 10 cent initially and later on 5-6 cent after 5 years.

 

[abc123xyx]

Lol. Why will we allow anything coming from Pakistani soil when we are reciprocated? We can also use CPEC to export things to China through Pakistan.

If Pakistan wants to block India, then it is welcome. We are poised to become 3rd largest economy with exports near 1 trillion Dollars by 2030. And a time will come where a single Indian state will export more than Pakistani economy to China.

All the best

our main export to china are the raw materials , they import it from us out of cumpulsion, but soon our menufecturing will need that raw material too....so ,our export to china will decrease....as far as pakistan is concern , eventually they had to came india....presently , let them learn , the way srilankan and africans had learn....chinese are the most unreliable...." matlab ke yaar ".....matlab nekal gaya , to pahchantey nahi...

 

[mrrehan]

ISLAMABAD: Some lawmakers expressed concern on Wednesday over the possible use of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) by China to enhance trade with India.

During a meeting of the Senate Standing Committee on Planning and Development, some lawmakers were of the view that China was investing in the CPEC project to explore new vistas of trade with different countries right from neighbouring India to Central Asian states and Europe.

Chairman of the committee Syed Tahir Hussain Mashhadi endorsed a point of view of a senator that with improved rail and road links with India through Munabao and Amritsar under the CPEC, China would expand its trade not only with Central Asian states and European countries but also with India to economically strengthen its eight underdeveloped provinces.

“China will definitely use the CPEC to expand trade with India because one who invests always watches one’s interests first,” Mr Mashhadi said.

He said China’s trade relations with India were far bigger than with Pakistan as China had inked $100 billion trade agreements with India last year.

“Irrespective of sour Pakistan-India relations, China will do trade with Indian through the CPEC,” Mr Mashhadi said.

Members of the committee asked railway authorities to lay rail tracks called ML-2 and ML-3 that link Pakistan with Iran and Afghanistan and Central Asian states.

“These projects must be on the priority of China to reach these destinations,” Senator Saud Majeed said.

However, railway officials informed the committee that they were focusing on improving the existing rail tracks called ML-1 from Karachi to upcountry as a majority of the people lived in the areas falling in alignment of ML-1.

Senator Sirajul Haq said that the government should give priority first to those projects which were beneficial to the people of Pakistan and then it should safeguard interests of China.

He was of the view that if the people of less developed areas in Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) did not benefit from the CPEC, they would have no other option but to take up arms to earn their livelihood.

“If economic conditions of ignored areas are not improved, people living in those areas will be compelled to fight against anybody for only Rs2,000,” the Jamaat-i-Islami chief said.

The officials of Pakistan Railways informed the committee that all rail projects being executed under the CPEC were planned by both Pakistan and China and the former alone could not go for any project on its own.

“Both countries have joint working groups which plan and finalise projects,” they said.

At this, Senator Haq said that recently some of his colleagues had visited China for discussions on the CPEC where they were informed by Chinese authorities that Pakistan had the sole right of planning and decision-making about CPEC projects and China had nothing to do with it.

Senator Mohammad Usman Khan Kakar said that Pakistan Railways had not taken even a single step forward.

“We have not gone beyond what we inherited from the British rulers,” he regretted.

He suggested that plans for new railway tracks in Sindh and Balochistan (ML-2 and ML-3) must be implemented immediately because these were the routes which would make Pakistan economically strong.

“We have abundance of natural resources like gold, copper, silver, marble and granite in these areas which can be marketed to Iran, Afghanistan and Central Asian states through rail routes,” he said.

The committee was informed that a majority of electricity generation projects started by the government would be completed between 2018 and 2020.

Published in Dawn November 17th, 2016



Its a Good thing

 

[Ea Returns]

By 2021 Pakistan GDP will be about $500-600 billion. And tax collection $60-70 billion.

From $285 Billion in 2016, how would you become 500-600 Billion economy in 4 yrs, god knows! Would you be growing at rate of 25% or what.

You never listen to debate on CPEC in your media... do it. That will help you calm down. I personally find it very interesting.

 

[Sam.]

From $285 Billion in 2016, how would you become 500-600 Billion economy in 4 yrs, god knows! Would you be growing at rate of 25% or what.

You never listen to debate on CPEC in your media... do it. That will help you calm down. I personally find it very interesting.

They will achieve it with magic wand. You got a problem?

 

[Rasengan]

There is one problem with this long story... you are yet to read about CPEC. The height of ignorance about this project is amazing, your inexperience in such deals is taken advantage of.

1. It's not INVESTMENT but LOAN and that's too with unrealistic conditions. Technically one can do anything with Loan he wishes to but it's different story here. You have to pay interest which is highest anywhere in today's world (more than 5%), you commit return of 27% for coal electricity plants for which you have given free land. Worst, all expertise working on this project has to be chinese. One such eg. is Japan is financing Mumbai-Ahmadabad Bullet train project at $10 Billion@0.1% and with moratorium period of 30 yrs (no installment to be paid for first 30 yrs). In addition, after importing a fixed amount of trains, same will be produced locally for future requirements. Did it ring any bell for an all weather ally? I guess they have plan to milk you to the bones during all weathers. sorry for being so blunt.
2. I don't know other secret conditions which could be mortgages in case interest and returns are not feasible!!
3. 80% of CPEC amount is for coal fired electricity plants, only 20% (around $11 B) is for Road project... did i burst your bubble?
4. The cost/unit of this power plant has already shot up to Rs 17/unit, considering there are no delays and implemented on time. Do you think, your people are prepared to buy this costly electricity or would rather prefer to enjoy load shedding?
5. Only people who are getting benefited are your politicians and generals involved in signing off this deal whom chinese have bribed to the throat. Many of them will flee to US/UK after retirement.
6. When you are not informed about Pakistan, i don't expect you to know anything about India. Keep dancing in your la-la land,

1) Please provide credible evidence that coal projects in CPEC are returning 27% to the Chinese.
2) Useless point
3) No you didn't burst my bubble, however you proved how silly you are. Dawn is currently under investigation and its fighting against the interests of Pakistan, so their opinion means jackshit. What wrong with coal fired electricity plants when India is using 60% of its energy needs from coal. Why are you so concerned anyway. By the way most of the workers on this project are Pakistanis.
4) Useless point.
5) Honestly I am bored with your argument.

 

[Ea Returns]

1) Please provide credible evidence that coal projects in CPEC are returning 27% to the Chinese.
2) Useless point
3) No you didn't burst my bubble, however you proved how silly you are. Dawn is currently under investigation and its fighting against the interests of Pakistan, so their opinion means jackshit. What wrong with coal fired electricity plants when India is using 60% of its energy needs from coal. Why are you so concerned anyway. By the way most of the workers on this project are Pakistanis.
4) Useless point.
5) Honestly I am bored with your argument.

I posted link of one of your news channel where guest is asking editor to suggest a scheme in Pakistan of 27% return where he can invest money, like CPEC. This point is usually debated on your news channels, follow it.

It's true we have been generating electricity from Coal but we are fast diverting to non polluting Nuclear/solar energy. India has completed 10 GW of it's solar parks and aim to complete 100 GW by 2022. Those are ambitious target but let's make it by 2030. There are in progress projects of 40 GW of nuclear plants to be installed over next decade, you can wikipedia it. Solar energy price are as down as Rs. 4.34 in India putting a big question mark on every other form of energy. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-drops-to-record-low/articleshow/50643394.cms

In Sahiwal power project, Chinese have been demanding 11.67 to 12.4 cents per unit tariff. It even says that due to this, they are bowing out of this project.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1259048

Point is today when you are installing an electricity plant, you have to keep it for next 50 yrs to make it feasible.

 

[Rasengan]

I posted link of one of your news channel where guest is asking editor to suggest a scheme in Pakistan of 27% return where he can invest money, like CPEC. This point is usually debated on your news channels, follow it.

It's true we have been generating electricity from Coal but we are fast diverting to non polluting Nuclear/solar energy. India has completed 10 GW of it's solar parks and aim to complete 100 GW by 2022. Those are ambitious target but let's make it by 2030. There are in progress projects of 40 GW of nuclear plants to be installed over next decade, you can wikipedia it. Solar energy price are as down as Rs. 4.34 in India putting a big question mark on every other form of energy. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-drops-to-record-low/articleshow/50643394.cms

In Sahiwal power project, Chinese have been demanding 11.67 to 12.4 cents per unit tariff. It even says that due to this, they are bowing out of this project.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1259048

Point is today when you are installing an electricity plant today, you have to keep it for next 50 yrs to make it feasible.

Can't you read....I said give me evidence not newspaper articles and opinions of commentators on some show. Dawn is under investigation for fighting against the interests of Pakistan and are probably going to be closed soon. I am still waiting for that magical 27% return figure.

 

[Ea Returns]

Can't you read....I said give me evidence not newspaper articles and opinions of commentators on some show. Dawn is under investigation for fighting against the interests of Pakistan and are probably going to be closed soon. I am still waiting for that magical 27% return figure.

You disown your media... You disown your newspaper, how do expect me to give you an evidence

 

[Rasengan]

You disown your media... You disown your newspaper, how do expect me to give you an evidence

Your knowledge on Pakistan is zilch. I would take whatever Dawn says with a pinch of salt because they are working against the interests of Pakistan. I want you to provide me a document where it clearly states that Pakistan will give China 27% return in coal electricity. Just because somebody makes a statement from the media doesn't mean its true. Maybe it works for you because you are a gullible Indian.

 

[Ea Returns]

Your knowledge on Pakistan is zilch. I would take whatever Dawn says with a pinch of salt because they are working against the interests of Pakistan. I want you to provide me a document where it clearly states that Pakistan will give China 27% return in coal electricity. Just because somebody makes a statement from the media doesn't mean its true. Maybe it works for you because you are a gullible Indian.

This statement has been repeated in media more than one occasion and by different anchors/hosts. I would suggest you to listen to your news-channels on CPEC, not only "game changer" thing but also a different point of view that discuss other side of the coin. Calling newspaper and news channels "Gaddar" is not a solution.

 

[SMC]

You disown your media... You disown your newspaper, how do expect me to give you an evidence

This is a childish, fallacious and oversimplistic argument. People in most countries question their media, with bharat being an exception where whatever is aired in the media that is pro-government is gobbled up like gospel. Throughout Europe, North America, media is questioned when it makes a claim without anything to back up the claim.

Look how seriously people took the mainstream media when it came to US elections and brexit. Do you seriously think people in most countries just believe their media without putting in their own thought, just because bharatis just blindly believe media like its gospel? In this particular case, a claim is being made without being backed up. It's reasonable to question the validity of the claim.

Why do I keep finding such simpleton bharatis who keep coming up with childish arguments such as "you disowned your media and newspaper".

It's interesting bharatis want us to shift our opinion to the detractors and the glass half empty clowns in the Pakistani media. They want us to treat their word as gospel truth and that if we don't listen to them we're disowning the media. At the same time, they do not mention all the other media sources that are not detractors and don't look at Pakistan as glass half empty.

Which reminds me, what happens when 2 media outlets contradict each other, which do you believe if you must believe everything media says?