Secular West Bengal on fire again

[Paranoid Android]

That part is true.

Ok, gotta go. Bye.

Dude are you bengali?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Dude are you bengali?

Ami tumhake bhalubashi.
Totally.
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[Paranoid Android]

Ami tumhake bhalubashi.
Totally.
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Cholbe! Bhalo then...

 

[jamahir]

Man I am a dalit & don't bring dalit politics.We are Hindus & every dalit thinks such way believe me.This kind of politics are better suited for very few uneducated leaders. most Muslim people who drips crocodile's tears naming us for politics & media which does for trp.There is hardly any discrimination of dalit.

don't lie.

did you even read my small account of the karnataka student-intellectual?? what will you say to him?? will you call him uneducated?? does educated then mean anand bodas who claimed in the "indian science congress" i think in 2014 that "ancient indians" ( meaning hindus ) had interplanetary human-carrying spacecraft technology??

do you know about the anti-dalit discrimination in tamil nadu?? there was a thread after the madras floods speaking of a dalit village that had seen no relief operations while non-dalit villages had.

how about rajasthan and haryana?? what about the faridabad ( haryana ) incident in which two dalit children were burnt alive because of a high-caste attack?? one sanghi member here was relaying another insane statement by submarine swami that the attacked and the attacking parties were christian converts in reality.

here[1] is famous dalit leader, kancha ilaiah...

In order to establish a Hindu rashtra, Mr Bhagwat is talking in a new language. Of late, he has been saying that minor reforms of allowing dalits into Hindu temples, allowing them to draw water from the wells etc., should be taken up. But he never, ever talks about the basic reforms in Hindu religious structure where all, including the shudras, dalits and tribals, who are being defined as Hindu, must be treated as equals before Hindu Gods; equality in religious (Hindu theological) educational institutions, where priesthood training could be given to all castes — leave alone genders.

The question before the shudras, OBCs, dalits and tribals is whether they and the brahminic forces, represented by Mr Bhagwat, belong to one heritage?

What does a “common heritage” that Mr Obama referred to mean? If Mr Bhagwat represents the brahminical heritage, I represent a certain historical heritage. Do we have any common ground without undergoing a radical reform in our heritages?

I am a shudra by birth and I belong to this country, with roots of millennia of years tracing back to my ancestors. So does Mr Bhagwat. Did we at any point of time in history, share the heritage with that of the ancestors of Mr Bhagwat?

My personal name is Ilaiah, with a surname Kancha, and his personal name is Mohan, with a surname Bhagwat. My name came from a Telangana deity called Iloni Mallaiah whose temples have existed at three places in Telangana, perhaps for several centuries or millennia. My ancestors, the gods/goddesses they worshipped, had no Sanskritic linguistic, cultural or ritual heritage at any point of time in history.

His name, Mohan, has a Sanskritic background meaning lovable attraction. His surname suggests that his family name is “god” himself (Read: Bhagavat puranas or even books called Bhagavats in Sanskrit).

His ancestors have not shared their knowledge of the vedas, upanishads or bhagavats with my ancestors. If they were gurus they did not teach anything to my ancestors. But my ancestors never refused to share with his ancestors if they asked — be it meat, milk, fruit, or anything else. Even though they did not give them anything, they were always obliged when they asked for dakshina. Whenever they stretched their feet, my ancestors touched them with their hands and forehead, not out of reverence but out of fear.

His ancestors never even touched the body of my ancestors. If by accident they happened to touch them, they bathed several times — even though we are not untouchables.

As against the argument that there is common heritage of religion between the shudras, OBCs, dalits and tribals,

Mr Bhagwat is saying that we all belong to the same heritage. Is this just and ethically valid? If there is a universal God over and above the Indian people, their idol Gods (including that of my ancestors), does that God accept this kind of relationship between people? How did the Hindu Gods accept it?

Thus we belong to two distinctly different heritages. My ancestors did not name their cultural heritage as a religion — Hindu or vedic or sanathan. But Mr Bhagwat’s ancestors’ cultural and spiritual practices are termed as Hindu, vedic or sanathan. To this day, we have not had any exchange of heritages. Now he heads the RSS. His organisation defines me as a Hindu, similarly my ancestors are also termed Hindu. His organisation tells me that I should worship cows, but not buffaloes, sheep or goats.

My ancestors never worshipped any one of the animals they fed, watered and sheltered. All domestic animals were equal for them. While living as unequals in society they at least treated the animals under their control as equals. God gave them that good will. But Mr Bhagwat’s family (now the Sangh Parivar) does not exercise such good will.

Since my ancestors had no say in defining Mr Bhagwat and his ancestors’ religion as Hindu, and since we never shared or exchanged our heritages, I choose any religion that I think gives me access to God, dignity in divine realm and equality in that civil society. Does that make me anti-national?

the vhp are hell bent on discrediting him and hounding him[2]...

The Hyderabad police have registered a case against renowned social scientist Kancha Ilaiah, after Vishwa Hindu Parishad activists complained that an opinion piece he wrote in the Telugu newspaper Andhra Jyothi had hurt their religious sentiments.

They filed their complaint at Hyderabad’s Sultan Bazar Station was filed on May 9, the day Ilaiah’s article titled Devudu Prajasamya Vada Kada? (Is God a democrat?) was published.

Ilaiah delineates three types of Gods: an Abstract God, one who is shapeless and eternal; individuals who were prophets but were transformed into Gods; and Gods imagined as humans. Each category conveys certain ideas through their attributes, Ilaiah claims.

The Abstract God has democratic qualities, he contended. The first of these characteristics, as expressed in the Bible and the Koran, is that God “has created all human beings equal”. The second democratic character of this kind of God is that humans are created superior to all animals (including the cow), and “nature and its creatures have been created for food and other human purposes”.

Both Jesus Christ and Prophet Mohammad propounded these ideas, he said. However, in contrast to the Prophet Mohammad, Christ acquired the status of God, as did Gautam Buddha, he writes. “Buddha and Jesus are against violence,” he wrote. “Their teaching inspired hopes for equality across the whole human race. Both their life stories have extended discussions on societal construction, change in man-woman relationships, desired forms of rule and democratic values.”

However, Ilaiah rates Jesus Christ ahead of Buddha in espousing democratic ideals. “His fight for the freedom of Samaritans (Dalits over there), women, Gentile men and women, slaves and prostitutes, seem to be one step ahead of the Buddha’s democratic values,” he claimed. “He is the one who clearly stated about the necessity of separating state and religion.”

Ilaiah, therefore, suggests that it is more important to study the impact of Vaishnavism on Indian society. The narratives and imagery around Rama and Krishna, who are incarnations of Vishnu, involved violence and weaponry such as the chakram, bow and arrow and the trishul (trident), he writes. This has a bearing on human relations, he contends.

Caste identities

Ilaiah also alleges that these narratives contain what he calls the “counter-democratic process”. The fact that these Gods have identities rooted in the Kshatriya caste “has greatly helped in building an undemocratic system”, he wrote.

The article ends with a few questions: “If the God believed by a person doesn’t have democratic values, where will this person get those democratic values from? In fact, shouldn’t they explain why they create such Gods who are violent, undemocratic and anti-women?”

Ilaiah told Scroll that he was not perturbed by the case. “I am into transforming thought,” he said. “Such pressure is expected. I am not scared. My motive is to make the nation rethink its uncivilised conduct.”

Statement of support

He is not without his supporters. On May 27, Andhra Jyothi carried a statement by 76 Telugu writers, intellectuals and artists backing Ilaiah. The statement said, “Prof. Kancha Ilaiah wrote an article by describing the democratic values and showing how negative spiritual values come in the way of development of national economic, social and political future.”

His supporters urged his opponents to counter his arguments in articles of their own. “Instead, in order to control Prof. Ilaiah’s ideas, some forces are resorting to legal and coercive methods, which cannot be supported by anybody,” the statement said.

The statement concludes, “Today, Kancha Ilaiah’s writings are making the world think afresh. Only the communal bigots are unable to understand those ideas.”

Do you remember same way the Christian professor's hands were chopped off by Muslims in Kerala?

here[3] is the professor talking about how the church troubled him after that incident...

While the Church did reappoint him after this, it was only for two days, and after he had given in writing that he wouldn’t complain against the diocese.

Salomi would have urged him to keep his faith, Joseph knows. And he has done that. Explaining why he still believed in God, he adds, “Why should I denounce my faith for the wrongs of a few priests?”

The Church is a different matter. “I got my life back despite the attack. I can even consider it an accident now… The irreparable loss has been the death of my wife due to the callous stand of the Church,” Joseph says.

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[1] kancha ilaiah on the rss and his own dilemma

[2] Case filed against social scientist Kancha Ilaiah for asking, 'Is God a democrat?'

[3] ‘I got my life back despite the attack. What I won’t get back is my wife’ | The Indian Express

 

[dray]

Kolkata riot was one of bloodiest in india before partition. It is only because of Gandhi that bengal averted a bloodbath similar to punjab. It's quite strange than gandhi wasn't lynched in noyakhali at the first place.

People in those days were more communal, the secular principals have become more prevalent in recent decades; which is a good thing. The concern is that the concept of secularism is being pushed to its limits by certain educated & leftist sections of the society to accommodate radicalism, radicalism in the minority religious communities to be specific, and it is also being distorted by the political class to serve their petty political interests.

Yeah, perhaps defending the local ethos/culture/Hindu-ness/etc(whatever you call it) had been looked down upon when compared with other goals like socialism/etc. But if the push comes to shove do you think all Bengali Hindus will respond like LaBong, or will there be more ShyamaPrasads?

I don't call for any division of Bengal or any Indian ang - that was done enough.

I am not sure.

There was some protests in park circus few months ago after rail police detained some muslim kids with a moulavi. They blocked a road and had some usual run ins with police. I opened twitter to see that a major riot has going on in Kolkata and most of the kolkata is burning. The rumour started by a sanghi journalist and was retweeted by heavyweights likes kanchan gupta, gaurav sawant etc. Was worried for my parents and woke them up in middle of the night to find out nothing happened.

Yes, I came to know about it in that evening when some of my colleagues who went through Park Circus area warned us not to take that route, as some hooligans were running around with sticks and breaking the glasses of the cars stuck in the traffic lights, the next day Rajabazar area was blocked by thousands of protesters waving Pakistani flags, most of these elements are Bihari Muslims who fled from Bangladesh in 1971, but couldn't forget their East Pakistan.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

most of these elements are Bihari Muslims who fled from Bangladesh in 1971, but couldn't forget their East Pakistan.

Seriously?

Substantial number of Bihari Muslims got refuge in.... India??? That is .....

 

[LaBong]

People in those days were more communal, the secular principals have become more prevalent in recent decades; which is a good thing. The concern is that the concept of secularism is being pushed to its limits by certain educated & leftist sections of the society to accommodate radicalism, radicalism in the minority religious communities to be specific, and it is also being distorted by the political class to serve their petty political interests.

Another concern is people will once again become communal like they were before and we will have bloodbath like ever before.

 

[ranjeet]

Another concern is people will once again become communal like they were before and we will have bloodbath like ever before.

So lets comb our hair neatly and cow down to Jamatis like cute little dhimmis.

 

[Paranoid Android]

don't lie.

did you even read my small account of the karnataka student-intellectual?? what will you say to him?? will you call him uneducated?? does educated then mean anand bodas who claimed in the "indian science congress" i think in 2014 that "ancient indians" ( meaning hindus ) had interplanetary human-carrying spacecraft technology??

do you know about the anti-dalit discrimination in tamil nadu?? there was a thread after the madras floods speaking of a dalit village that had seen no relief operations while non-dalit villages had.

how about rajasthan and haryana?? what about the faridabad ( haryana ) incident in which two dalit children were burnt alive because of a high-caste attack?? one sanghi member here was relaying another insane statement by submarine swami that the attacked and the attacking parties were christian converts in reality.

here[1] is famous dalit leader, kancha ilaiah...






the vhp are hell bent on discrediting him and hounding him[2]...








here[3] is the professor talking about how the church troubled him after that incident...



------

[1] kancha ilaiah on the rss and his own dilemma

[2] Case filed against social scientist Kancha Ilaiah for asking, 'Is God a democrat?'

[3] ‘I got my life back despite the attack. What I won’t get back is my wife’ | The Indian Express

If you want to bring religious examples I can also bring in thousands.So better not go to this side.
I am talking with my experience from what I have been through.I don't need to lie or need your approval to prove that. Lie would give me nothing.I have already mentioned in my past comment that few uneducated portion involved in such things..There are 2-3 such incidents over 1.2bn people so I would rather avoid it & such happens only rural panchayat easy to brain wash portion of our society..About Chennai floods,dalit suffered cause most of the dalits belong from rural area & media tried to incite dalit politics at that time else who would do such kind of survey at the time of flood!!These kind of TOI columns are for you guys..It is silly to think that people would differentiate at the time of natural disaster....

 

[LaBong]

So lets comb our hair neatly and cow down to Jamatis like cute little dhimmis.

We did what necessary to make janat irrelevant to bengali muslims, Bangladeshis did what necessary to curb jamat terror and slowly making them irrelevant. We shoudn't have let the rajakars to come to kolkata but they sneaked in like rats but will be dealt with if they ever try do anything remotely nasty.

You on he other hand are all talks and no show like your janu pm who is giving yoga lessons when soldires are dying.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

RATS..everywhere whether its Patahan kot airbase, mazar sharif consulate , Indian airliner.....one way or another..

 

[Paranoid Android]

@jamahir How would you define what happened in Malda where Hindus are getting tortured?Hindus are not by 2 or 3 numbers,they are in thousands..They are getting attacked by religious freaks & they are not differentiating sc st obc or general to kill molest or ransack their houses..

 

[ranjeet]

We did what necessary to make janat irrelevant to bengali muslims, Bangladeshis did what necessary to curb jamat terror and slowly making them irrelevant. We shoudn't have let the rajakars to come to kolkata but they sneaked in like rats but will be dealt with if they ever try do anything remotely nasty.

You on he other hand are all talks and no show like your janu pm who is giving yoga lessons when soldires are dying.

Janu pm?

 

[LaBong]

Janu pm?

Yes bhakti doesn't quite describe the feeling anymore!

 

[H.B.]

KOLKATA: Communal violence erupted inMalda this afternoon following a meeting of a fringe Muslim organisation in the area. The local police station at Kaliachawk was set on fire, at least 40 vehicles that included a dozen private vehicles, police vehicles and BSF vehicles, were ransacked after the mob turned violent during the meeting. The National Highway 34 was blocked for several hours while trains were also stopped near Kaliachawk, said police sources.

A Muslim organisation was holding a rally protesting against the comments made by the Hindu Mahasabha chief in Uttar Pradesh. When the meeting was underway, there was a public outrage and the mob attacked the police station. Subhabrata Ghosh, the inspector-in-charge of Kaliachawk police station and other police officers were injured when the mob attacked the police station . The police officers were soon outnumbered and they fled, said sources.

According to sources, a 24 year old villager was shot . The victim has been admitted to the Malda medical college hospital. Around 25 houses in the area were also ransacked. The situation was brought under control late in the evening after a huge reinforcement from Malda reached the spot .

Anuj Sharma, IG, law and order told ET, " The situation in Kaliachawk is now under control. We are collecting the reports of damages."

Communal tension erupted in Malda - The Economic Times


I hope this source is authorative enough for ostriches ofBengal land.