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Scottish Independence Refrendum, polls open

nangyale

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Polls have opened to decide the future of Scotland. They will remain open till 2200 UK time.

The 'Yes' and 'No' compains are running neck and neck in the latest opinion polls making the result of the refrendum extremely difficult to predict.

Although the refrendum is only taking place in Scotland it will have wide ranging effects on the rest of the UK if Scotland decides to go their own way.

It will also have effects on the European continent (making the Spanish goverment very nervous) and the world at large.

I would like to invite PDF members to post their comments and analysis on this refrendum and updates on the days events.

Regards
nangyale
 
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I read that whisky prices might go up if they leave the UK so I hope they stay :P








na, freedoms is good, go William Wallace on the queen's azs, you Scots !
 
For all the crimes the British have committed all over the world over the past 400 years, it would be beautiful if Scotland became an independent country.

But unfortunately it won't happen since the elections will be rigged and the Scots are being bullied into voting 'NO'.
 
For all the crimes the British have committed all over the world over the past 400 years, it would be beautiful if Scotland became an independent country.

But unfortunately it won't happen since the elections will be rigged and the Scots are being bullied into voting 'NO'.
The establishment is all for the continuation of the union and is trying their best to scare Scots to vote no.

But on the other hand there is a tremendous amount of grassroots support for the Yes campaign on the ground.

You really need to be in Scotland to feel the energy and excitment, which luckily I am.
 
the Scots are being bullied into voting 'NO

Not really bullied but being scared into thinking that Scotland will struggle to fund the welfare state like it is under UK. Only time will tell. The referendum will be a close one though.

To add more there is all ready talks of more devolution and regional parliaments. Wales will also be included in the plans for more regional power.
 
I read that whisky prices might go up if they leave the UK so I hope they stay :P








na, freedoms is good, go William Wallace on the queen's azs, you Scots !
Whiskey price will depend on the currency Scotland adopts. Either way if pound is adopted or not Whiskey is gonna become cheaper.
I think pound will be some what de-valued if Scotland decide to vote Yes.
 
Scotland’s yes campaigners are voting to leave the Titanic
The British state is an imperial behemoth that can only look on in panic as Scots scramble for the lifeboats

e1df436d68802f5fc8de3a817b1a7d6f.jpg

The former Deacon Blue frontman, Ricky Ross (centre), at a yes rally in Glasgow on the last day of campaigning. Photograph: Mark Runnacles/Getty Images
In Scottish city centres right now, you’re rarely out of sight of a yes badge. The vibe was summed up by an Edinburgh cabbie: “We’re being invited to run our country. It’s very exciting. Maybe we can show how things can be done differently”. It’s not just him. Polls have shown the yes vote surging.
It’s worth noting how remarkable this is. The only UK party supporting independence is the Greens. Of all of the local Scottish and British papers, only the Sunday Herald backs yes. The official story has long been that it’s only a few angry men in kilts who care about this.
But in the internet age, officials don’t get to write the stories any more. There were always people who had little time for flags, tartanry and shortbread, but who wanted to escape a political system that has made Britain one of Europe’s most unequal counties. And it is these people – a better organised and vastly more powerful version of the Occupy movement – that the Westminster parties and their media partners failed to consider.
It’s this movement that has mobilised thousands to come together at meetings and online to imagine and plan out a better country; which has spurred them into activism, often for the first time in their lives; which has laughed together at the arrogance of disconnected rulers; and which has learned together as it has gone along. It’s this movement that attracted my cabbie to the first, then second, then third political meetings of his life – all in the past month.
These people created their own media and founded their own organisations. They are young, energetic, enthusiastic, funny. They looked the British state straight in the eye and saw through its illusions. The hierarchies of a steeply unequal country reward loyalty and elite connections while punishing independence of mind. No wonder kids from “the regions” are running rings around the “gurus” of a floundering establishment.
It isn’t just about activist groups. Visiting one of Edinburgh’s gurdwaras with Scots Asians for Yes, the people I met were typical. Some were undecided; some were no. Most were yes. And what distinguished the yeses was this: they were discussing how to persuade relatives and friends. They collected data-filled booklets to talk through with their families. They had become Google and Twitter aficionados, digging out and sharing information that debunks the horror stories our politicians use to frighten us away from any notion that another world is possible. With social media, Paul Mason once wrote, “truth moves faster than lies, and propaganda becomes flammable”.
It’s against this self-organised network that the British state is flagging. Research from Edinburgh University shows that the more information people have, the more likely they are to vote yes. In the face of mass peer-to-peer education, the puffed-up power of elites melts away: polls show most Scots no longer believe what Westminster MPs say. As David Cameron and George Osborne and Ed Miliband huff and puff and woo and cajole the people of Scotland, more and more simply look these politicians up and down, shrug, and say: “You have no power over us any more.”
It’s their own fault. Westminster’s parties have made conventional politics so bland that people barely pay attention. To win elections they have got used to flashing simplistic messages in front of our eyes – we don’t notice or care that we’re being patronised. And because they destroyed their pesky grassroots, they failed to spot that the referendum isn’t an election. People are paying attention, are thirsty for information, and don’t take kindly to their leaders treating them like idiots or trying to bully them.
Yet as the polls narrow, they offer a timetable to nowhere and fly from Downing Street a blue and white symbol of their utter failure to understand what’s happening.
In a sense, this gets to the core of what the referendum is about. Because the vote on independence isn’t just about escaping Westminster’s supercharged neoliberalism – though it offers that chance too. There’s also a different story of the modern age here: the network v the hierarchy. Do Scots want to huddle behind the clumsy, centralised British bureaucracy, or join the network of nations? Now the age of empires is over, do we want to stay on a Titanic, which once brutally ruled the waves? Or is it time to join Europe’s flotilla of more human-sized countries, more responsive to each of our needs, but capable of huddling together in a storm?
The British state was built for a previous era, to run a vast and violent empire built at a time when centralisation brought power. In the roaring flames of the second world war it was softened enough to be bent a little towards justice. But that was a blip. Those days are gone.
The rebellion in Scotland right now is against a rapidly centralising state in an age when information is diffuse and people have the capacity to organise themselves more than ever. It’s against an elitist structure in an age of mass education. It’s against a system built to keep us out. And there’s a simple way to tell, whatever the result, that yes voters have history on their side: look at the pathetic campaign mustered by the British state to defend itself. Watch Westminster’s wide-eyed panic as a widely predicted surge in the polls emerges. And ask yourself – would a functional state have failed to see this coming?
 
Last sunrise for the UK?

By M K Bhadrakumar

The sun may never again rise on the United Kingdom after this weekend. By the "breakfast time" on Friday the outcome of the closely-fought referendum in Scotland will be known. It's a toss up. Did the last-minute intervention by the Queen make a difference to tilt the delicate balance in favor of "No" to Scottish people's demand for independence?

In sheer intellectual terms it's breathtaking that this could be, after all, a velvet divorce. So much of ancient and bloody enmities existed between England and Scotland through centuries and yet the parting is by mutual consent. Of course, the unfinished business will remain bitter and not easily put behind.

Most certainly, this is not how things ended in history in most parts of the world. The civilian death toll in the former East Pakistan in 1971 was anywhere between 3 lakhs and 3 million.

All the countries in our region face the challenge of political separatism. Some are acute challenges and some keep simmering, while some others simply slithered into the undergrowth and may not be quite visible to the naked eye - until they reappear.

India remains in the danger zone, and wisdom, patience and tolerance and sensitivity is needed - especially on the part of our boorish and crass political class. Our pundits point finger at Jaffna, Baluchistan or Tibet but refuse to look within - or pretend they have not noticed.

Vast regions in our country feel alienation but are literally held under the thumb with brutal state coercion. Try and see what happens if we remove the army deployments in the north-east regions - you'll hear the pressure cooker whistle as far away as Thiruvananthapuram in the deep South.

Watching our comical television coverage of Chinese President Xi Jinping's arrival yesterday, it occured to me what mixed thoughts would have crossed Prime Minister Narendra Modi's mind if he had been in Xi's shoes had there been a demonstration by a bunch of Nagas or Bodos or Kashmiris in front of the Indian embassy in Kathmandu on the day he arrived in Nepal last month.

Of course, we may say there is no analogy because we've "democracy". But then, isn't Britain the mother of all democracies? Let me recite a line from my favorite book, Markings, Dag Hammarskjold's dramatic account of his spiritual struggle - "The more faithfully you listen to the voice within you, the better you will hear what is sounding outside. And only he who listens can speak."

What Scotland underscores is that nationalism and sub-nationalism has strange ways and it is not economic development (or deprivation) that lies at the root of political alienation - at least, that is not the only underlying factor or even the main factor.

Cultural identity, political discrimination (real or perceived), language and ethnicity, religion, and the sheer exuberance of living one's own way - all these matter in varying degrees and in the crucible where contemporary experiences mix with the residues of history, strange amalgams form.

Clearly, with a 5 million population, Scotland may not even be economically viable, but that doesn't seem to worry the people who are seeking independence.

The break-up of Britain will send tremors across Europe and globally. If Scotland moves out, Wales may follow. The opinion in the rump will heavily favor moving out of the European Union. Now, an EU without Britain has profound implications.

Germany's ascendancy or "assertiveness" is already being discussed openly. Clearly, German will move still closer to Russia and the EU may itself take a different form. Again, the trans-Atlantic partnership between the US and its European allies cannot remain the same. Britain played a key role as Washington's "branch manager" in Europe.

There have been ups and downs in the US-UK relationship, and there have been times when the poodle led the bumbling master through blind alleys, but Britain is ultimately irreplaceable in America's global strategies. It's unthinkable that the US agenda on NATO's expansion can go ahead without Britain's active role. Equally, without the Anglo-American axis, a New Cold War can never start in Europe. Poland or Lithuania simply cannot replace Britain.

Finally, who will take Britain's place in the United Nations Security Council? Ironically, the UN reform agenda gets a new dynamic (and urgency) if Britain "drops out". Suffice to say, the implications are serious for a variety of theatres in regional and global politics today - Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Iran, Hong Kong, Australia and so on.

However, Britain's demise will not be universally mourned. Britain is fairly widely loathed across continents for its brutal colonial record, for its slyness or deviousness (couched in irritating self-righteousness), for its preachy character (despite its scant regard for morality), for its panache to punch above its weight (from under American wings, of course) and for the sheer zest with which it explodes into violent acts against alien peoples who did no harm to it directly or directly.

There is deep irony here, from the South Asian point of view. The Partition is visiting Britain 67 years after Britain summarily imposed it on the Indian sub-continent. History's revenge? But Britain may still get away paying only a fragment of the price that India paid - and is still paying - for the Caesarian operation it conducted on the subcontinent without even administering anaesthesia.

I can't help brooding for the rest of today and until tomorrow "breakfast time": What a way an empire on which the sun never set may finally cease to exist. The Ottoman Empire was the last one to vanish into thin air. Britain played a magical role then. Oh, the ephemeral nature of all "power" - the way it finally ends! Sound and fury signifying nothing …

Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar served as a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service for over 29 years, with postings including India's ambassador to Uzbekistan (1995-1998) and to Turkey (1998-2001).
 
Elections at a glance

4.2m registered voters


97% of electorate

  • 7am polls open
  • 10pm polls close, counting begins
  • 32 counts across Scotland
  • 6:30-7:30am expected declaration
Source: Elections Scotland
 
There may be no exit polls, but if social media were determining who was in the lead, 'Yes' campaign are leading comfortably.

2e88369f288ac4714d194911b99aa848._.jpg
 
Last sunrise for the UK?

By M K Bhadrakumar

The sun may never again rise on the United Kingdom after this weekend. By the "breakfast time" on Friday the outcome of the closely-fought referendum in Scotland will be known. It's a toss up. Did the last-minute intervention by the Queen make a difference to tilt the delicate balance in favor of "No" to Scottish people's demand for independence?

In sheer intellectual terms it's breathtaking that this could be, after all, a velvet divorce. So much of ancient and bloody enmities existed between England and Scotland through centuries and yet the parting is by mutual consent. Of course, the unfinished business will remain bitter and not easily put behind.

Most certainly, this is not how things ended in history in most parts of the world. The civilian death toll in the former East Pakistan in 1971 was anywhere between 3 lakhs and 3 million.

All the countries in our region face the challenge of political separatism. Some are acute challenges and some keep simmering, while some others simply slithered into the undergrowth and may not be quite visible to the naked eye - until they reappear.

India remains in the danger zone, and wisdom, patience and tolerance and sensitivity is needed - especially on the part of our boorish and crass political class. Our pundits point finger at Jaffna, Baluchistan or Tibet but refuse to look within - or pretend they have not noticed.

Vast regions in our country feel alienation but are literally held under the thumb with brutal state coercion. Try and see what happens if we remove the army deployments in the north-east regions - you'll hear the pressure cooker whistle as far away as Thiruvananthapuram in the deep South.

Watching our comical television coverage of Chinese President Xi Jinping's arrival yesterday, it occured to me what mixed thoughts would have crossed Prime Minister Narendra Modi's mind if he had been in Xi's shoes had there been a demonstration by a bunch of Nagas or Bodos or Kashmiris in front of the Indian embassy in Kathmandu on the day he arrived in Nepal last month.

Of course, we may say there is no analogy because we've "democracy". But then, isn't Britain the mother of all democracies? Let me recite a line from my favorite book, Markings, Dag Hammarskjold's dramatic account of his spiritual struggle - "The more faithfully you listen to the voice within you, the better you will hear what is sounding outside. And only he who listens can speak."

What Scotland underscores is that nationalism and sub-nationalism has strange ways and it is not economic development (or deprivation) that lies at the root of political alienation - at least, that is not the only underlying factor or even the main factor.

Cultural identity, political discrimination (real or perceived), language and ethnicity, religion, and the sheer exuberance of living one's own way - all these matter in varying degrees and in the crucible where contemporary experiences mix with the residues of history, strange amalgams form.

Clearly, with a 5 million population, Scotland may not even be economically viable, but that doesn't seem to worry the people who are seeking independence.

The break-up of Britain will send tremors across Europe and globally. If Scotland moves out, Wales may follow. The opinion in the rump will heavily favor moving out of the European Union. Now, an EU without Britain has profound implications.

Germany's ascendancy or "assertiveness" is already being discussed openly. Clearly, German will move still closer to Russia and the EU may itself take a different form. Again, the trans-Atlantic partnership between the US and its European allies cannot remain the same. Britain played a key role as Washington's "branch manager" in Europe.

There have been ups and downs in the US-UK relationship, and there have been times when the poodle led the bumbling master through blind alleys, but Britain is ultimately irreplaceable in America's global strategies. It's unthinkable that the US agenda on NATO's expansion can go ahead without Britain's active role. Equally, without the Anglo-American axis, a New Cold War can never start in Europe. Poland or Lithuania simply cannot replace Britain.

Finally, who will take Britain's place in the United Nations Security Council? Ironically, the UN reform agenda gets a new dynamic (and urgency) if Britain "drops out". Suffice to say, the implications are serious for a variety of theatres in regional and global politics today - Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Afghanistan, Iran, Hong Kong, Australia and so on.

However, Britain's demise will not be universally mourned. Britain is fairly widely loathed across continents for its brutal colonial record, for its slyness or deviousness (couched in irritating self-righteousness), for its preachy character (despite its scant regard for morality), for its panache to punch above its weight (from under American wings, of course) and for the sheer zest with which it explodes into violent acts against alien peoples who did no harm to it directly or directly.

There is deep irony here, from the South Asian point of view. The Partition is visiting Britain 67 years after Britain summarily imposed it on the Indian sub-continent. History's revenge? But Britain may still get away paying only a fragment of the price that India paid - and is still paying - for the Caesarian operation it conducted on the subcontinent without even administering anaesthesia.

I can't help brooding for the rest of today and until tomorrow "breakfast time": What a way an empire on which the sun never set may finally cease to exist. The Ottoman Empire was the last one to vanish into thin air. Britain played a magical role then. Oh, the ephemeral nature of all "power" - the way it finally ends! Sound and fury signifying nothing …

Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar served as a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service for over 29 years, with postings including India's ambassador to Uzbekistan (1995-1998) and to Turkey (1998-2001).

That heading , kinda strange but we maybe witnessing history
 
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