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Officer of Engineers said:Still, as a gesture, it goes a long way to de-escalate.
I have very little hope for genuine peace but maybe the truce can last just a little bit longer.
Actually Kargil proved us right. By all accounts, India SHOULD have gone to war. If it was Pakistan whose hills were captured we would've taken the war onto the Indian controlled side.Officer of Engineers said:Kragil proved you're wrong.
We're pretty much de-escalated on the military front. Our politicians are the ones that are making all the big talk right now.Try to descalate. Keep your infantry at the border but pull back your artillery and armour - way back - some 50 miles back.
He hardly said that. De-escalation has to happen from the rhetoric of the politicians and the war planners that would undoubtebly be pouring this as a suggestion down the Indian prime minister's ear.melb4aust said:So you want another war to happen between these two countries. Atleast think positive. whose gonna have a loss in case of war, me you and people like us.
melb4aust said:So you want another war to happen between these two countries. Atleast think positive. whose gonna have a loss in case of war, me you and people like us.
Asim Aquil said:This incident to me seems genuine as compared to the bombings of Dec. 2001, which was such a big hoax to get the US to attack Pakistan, when the US didn't, India didn't... As I said India will ONLY attack when its SURE.
.
Well the US was high on passion at the time. India has attempted time and time again to build a parity with the US to obtain US help.melb4aust said:US:disappointed: , Ru sure, Why US was gonna attack on pakistan, while all the attack happened in India, it was India who brought both countries to the brink of war. Not even that, even in Pakistan, i had seen tanks and missiles going to the border. All the villagers asked to empty their villages from the border and to go central if possible. And i have seen all this from eyes.
Aw man, get used to it. Afterall you GOT to answer to civillians in real life too, ultimately. You should make a distinction whether or not anyone MEANT any disrespect. Which if you haven't figured out already, I didn't.Officer of Engineers said:How about letting a military man decide what is defensive and what is offensive. An entire strike corps was mobilized for Kragil with no equivelent mobilization by the PakArmy. The InAF destroyed a PakArmy depot on the Pak side which meant the Pak's side of the Lines of Communications have become irrevelent. There was nothing to stop the InA to cross the border.
Just because the political will was not there does not mean that the InA was not prepared to militarily cross into Pak territory.
The Indo-Pak border is quiet but it is not de-escalated by any stretched of the imagination. Only the Korean DMZ surpasses that border as the most heavily foritified in the world.
The InA has embarked on a Cold Start doctrine and I take that as a sign of reduced Operational Objective. The only way Cold Start would work is reduced force with a reduced OpObj since the timing would not allow anything else.
Contrast that with the previous Strike Corps where an entire corps is readied, positioned, and armed to swarm over a prepared Pak defence - and that means the 1st canal line.
I really hate it when a civilian tries to me about things military.
We never had a problem with dealing India in Kashmir. Truth is there are 12 entrances (passes) to Kashmir, we control 11 out of 12. With India it's always been them threatening to cross the International borders. Over there strategy, pretty much goes out the window and its simply the numerical advantage that India has with its airforce that plays out.
Officer of Engineers said:Asim,
I've been dressed down by the best and worst. You ain't on par with either one. I'm not p!ssed off. I'm annoyed. And when I answer to my civilian bosses, they have the courtesy to listen to my presentation 1st and not make snap judgements based on entirely uninformed judgements.
And you've contradicted yourself. The very fact that the InA dominated a few Pak hills more than demonstrated that they have ample offensive capabilities and willingness. Mind you, it turned into a p!ssing contest but by no means the InA is the castrated cow you were implying earlier. Again, political unwillingness does not translate into military incapability.
And the following is even more ludicrous
You want to know what you've just said?
The PakArmy has no hope in hell of stopping an InA juggernaut and the only thing that they could do is to slow them down at 11 choke points. Strategy is out the window? How about the strategy of overwhelming force? How about the strategy of manouver. They're moving. You're not.
This is what really annoys me about you, Asim. You don't have command of the facts and when directly challenged with your at least misconceived if not outright mis-representation either deliberately or through ignornace, you try to put the onus on the other guy.
Well, I'm not the civilian trying to lecture a Lieutenant-Colonel on military matters.
Dont get your point, India needs to control those passes if it needs to get Azad Kashmir. Chest thumping apart, where is Hajir Pir and how did India took control of it in 1965? What were the real objectives of the last 4 wars ?Asim Aquil said:We never had a problem with dealing India in Kashmir. Truth is there are 12 entrances (passes) to Kashmir, we control 11 out of 12.
Which just proves that we have the will and means to do so, when its absolutely necessary. If you cannot defend the IB, why fight a war?With India it's always been them threatening to cross the International borders.
Advantage of any sort is also part of the strategyOver there strategy, pretty much goes out the window and its simply the numerical advantage that India has with its airforce that plays out.
Full scale war is not an option between the two rivals, even the hawks realise that.Officer of Engineers said:As of this moment, I think you guys are expecting too much. I'm just hoping enough people keep their heads as to avoid a full scale war.
I'm not hinting at any military advantures a la Kargill.Jay_ said:Wait, you have been trying that for 17 odd years. This was the main reason cited for Kargil. If no one cares about it after so many attempts, has it ever occured to you that what you think is wrong?
India gained here politically. LeT and other organisations were recognised as terrorist organisations as result for successful Indian compaign.Really? Tell me how India profitted from it. Infact Pakistan is the major benefactor in WoT.
1. Money
2. Mushraff cemented his place, became a President from dictator.
3. Started military actions against its own population in Balochistan and FATA.
Its a possibilty.So you do agree that Bombay blasts happen coz of Kashmiri terrorists??
Depends on the grounds of provocation. Iran has ethnic ties with Balochistan but no border dispute and vice versa. If Pakistan invades Iran, takes over Chahbahar for example and illegally claims it than Iran has a case to ratalliate.Let me ask you, if a group of Iranis bomb Islamabad and Karachi killing 1000's asking for Balochi independence, I guess thats fine with you? Right?
If you catch a Pakistani terrorist linked to the blasts, I sincerely hope you hang him.I'm not supporting one in Pakistan either, but if its indeed Pakistan based terrorists responsible for the blast, expect it in kind.
I believe we cannot launch offensives on both front, I never said we'd be unable to defend if one started by India.Jay_ said:Which just proves that we have the will and means to do so, when its absolutely necessary. If you cannot defend the IB, why fight a war?