Scoped AK-47s how effective are they?

[Inception-06]

The Rhodesians and Portuguese used G3s to great effect in the bush wars...some of the veterans thought that the G3 was the best battle rifle ever made...better than the AK even.

Write more about this please, seems interesting !

 

[Pakistan First]

The scopes you see on these AKs which our jawans are using are red dot / ACOG / holographic sights, not mildot scopes, which are useless on AKs.

These units are nowadays almost always supported by our snipers who are equipped with 308, 338 lapua and 50 BMG caliber systems from brands such as Steyr Aug, Range Master and CZ.

 

[Selous]

Write more about this please, seems interesting !

Well the use of HK G3s in Africa is going on since the days of colonization. I think the Portuguese were the first to use them in their colonies in Mozambique and and Angola. The Portuguese produced them under licence from HK. These G3s were known for their reliability and durability. The operators using these guns found that in the bush a heavier bullet worked better because they were not so easily deflected by grass and twigs and that the .308 had a long range and was flat shooting. When the Portuguese finally left Africa these guns fell into the hands of rag tag rebel groups and also the national armies. These guns are still working today.The Portuguese still use the G3s in Afghanistan. As far as the Rhodesians are concerned their primary weapon was the FN FAL (which also shoots the .308) and it's South African clone the R1. However once the international communities' sanctions hit them they were having problems getting more FALs. In 1974 they acquired quite a few G3s from the departing Portuguese and these were quickly pressed into service. I have seen a few videos of South African mercenaries who are working in Afghanistan and Iraq and they still claim that the Portuguese G3s are still the best battle rifles around. As far as the weight is concerned I think that since the African bush is not as mountainous as Pakistan (in fact it's mainly flat) the rifle is not such a hassle to carry around. Another reason is that the European Africans (South Africans, Rhodesians etc) are on average quite tall and have longer arms and thus have a easier time carrying the rifles. In fact the South African clones of the FN FAL (R1) and the Galil (R5) are just the original rifles with longer stocks and a more sturdy construction.
One of these days I will write a post on the Rhodesian Army, which is considered the most effective fighting force in modern history. If you are interested look up the Rhodesian Light Infantry and the Selous Scouts as well as Operation Eland/Raid at Nyadzona and Fireforce.

 

[Selous]

Here is a pic of the Rhodesians using both the G3 and the FN FAL in the bush.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

We need a order like that here Order No. 227 for the whole Army, Frontier Corps and Police, to teach the enemy that attacking our Pakistan will be answered by harder battle and punishment !

....

Its better for a soldier to retreat and fight another day than die in a suicidal mission to hold a checkpoint.

Now I understand if that checkpoint is being attacked because it's defending a school or something.

Does Pakistan have something similar to the Rhodesian Light Infantry, Selous Scouts, Fireforce. No not SSG/N/W.

Pakistan needs to learn from the Rhodesians.

 

[Selous]

....

Its better for a soldier to retreat and fight another day than die in a suicidal mission to hold a checkpoint.

Now I understand if that checkpoint is being attacked because it's defending a school or something.

Does Pakistan have something similar to the Rhodesian Light Infantry, Selous Scouts, Fireforce. No not SSG/N/W.

Pakistan needs to learn from the Rhodesians.

Amen brother...those guys fought the insurgents like the legends they were.

 

[Reichmarshal]

....

Its better for a soldier to retreat and fight another day than die in a suicidal mission to hold a checkpoint.

Now I understand if that checkpoint is being attacked because it's defending a school or something.

Does Pakistan have something similar to the Rhodesian Light Infantry, Selous Scouts, Fireforce. No not SSG/N/W.

Pakistan needs to learn from the Rhodesians.

No retreat no surrounded.....those days Of meek abject surrounded r long gone
PA now is a battle hardened army, like no other.
That is the sole reason for the high no. Of casualties specially officers.
Had this not been the attitude of PA, it would not have meet with such out n out success, specially with its limited resources n wt the U.s n nato failed to achieve with their unlimited resources


Coming back to the subject
Scoped ak 47/type 56 in the hands of a trained soldier is deadly.
Even I can hit a 12" x12" target at 100 meters, repeatedly at will with my AK 47

 

[MilSpec]

Why not just have red dot sights? The telescopic sights will be next to useless on a rifle like the AK.

Sorry but I would disagree, Even shooting accurately upto 100-250 yards without scope can be challenging under duress, fixed power scopes with some practice on an Ak can make it quite lethal system at the such engagement ranges.

Additionally there are different types of AK configurations too,there are polish milled receiver AK's and VZ58's(Although not an AK) which are no dull shooters even upto 400 yards.

I personally can barely identify paper targets out to 300 yards without a scope, shooting accurately without one would be tough task. Make no mistakes you can still shoot 300 yards with iron sights and hit human size targets, but the whole point of adding a scope is to get reliability in shot groups.

 

[Selous]

Sorry but I would disagree, Even shooting accurately upto 100-250 yards without scope can be challenging under duress, fixed power scopes with some practice on an Ak can make it quite lethal system at the such engagement ranges.

Additionally there are different types of AK configurations too,there are polish milled receiver AK's and VZ58's(Although not an AK) which are no dull shooters even upto 400 yards.

I personally can barely identify paper targets out to 300 yards without a scope, shooting accurately without one would be tough task. Make no mistakes you can still shoot 300 yards with iron sights and hit human size targets, but the whole point of adding a scope is to get reliability in shot groups.

Bro have you shot with a scope under pressure ? I know from experience ( hunting in the bush in SA ) that after you have walked the whole day and ran after your quarry and when you finally have a clear shot the scope is all over the place (esp if you were running and are out of breath) and to aim accurately is much harder if you have a rest...if shooting freehand it's almost impossible...with iron sights it is slightly easier because the the movements are not magnified unlike with the scope.

 

[MilSpec]

Bro have you shot with a scope under pressure ? I know from experience ( hunting in the bush in SA ) that after you have walked the whole day and ran after your quarry and when you finally have a clear shot the scope is all over the place (esp if you were running and are out of breath) and to aim accurately is much harder if you have a rest...if shooting freehand it's almost impossible...with iron sights it is slightly easier because the the movements are not magnified unlike with the scope.

what was your magnification? I have run ITTS rifle course with a my Modified AKM, with a 4x fixed power scope, and did not face issues, but I do see your point, with a 3-9x or even a 12-36x adjustable, you might have drift problems. I haven't seen people using high magnification hunting scopes on assault rifles.

 

[denel]

R1 was discontinued in early 80s. when i went in to SADF in 89, it had already been replaced with R4. R4 is used by the army and gradually being replaced with a newer model. R5 is a lighter variant used only by police, navy and air force. Rhodesians used FN. Rationale was FN was too heavy and engagements in the bush were not more than 200m away and hence R4 held on its own with 5.56mm.
Selous were brutal and bad news; many were never tried for war crimes.
AK with scope is not required, just looks fancy. Simple dot scope will do fine just like with R4/5,

 

[Selous]

what was your magnification? I have run ITTS rifle course with a my Modified AKM, with a 4x fixed power scope, and did not face issues, but I do see your point, with a 3-9x or even a 12-36x adjustable, you might have drift problems. I haven't seen people using high magnification hunting scopes on assault rifles.

We generally use adjustable power scopes but I prefer to shoot at 6x out to 100m and for further out I dial it up to 12x.

 

[Selous]

R1 was discontinued in early 80s. when i went in to SADF in 89, it had already been replaced with R4. R4 is used by the army and gradually being replaced with a newer model. R5 is a lighter variant used only by police, navy and air force. Rhodesians used FN. Rationale was FN was too heavy and engagements in the bush were not more than 200m away and hence R4 held on its own with 5.56mm.
Selous were brutal and bad news; many were never tried for war crimes.
AK with scope is not required, just looks fancy. Simple dot scope will do fine just like with R4/5,

What do you think of the R4 ? My brother used it once for hunting and said that it was having problems even on Blesbok (with good shot placement)...the buck needed more than one shot to bring it down. He also shot an eland with it in the head and later when they were skinning it he said it did not penetrate the skull.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Yes thats the Problem, our Sodliers which are at checkposts and in the posts at the mountains, need a KEY a way to call close support, which can be only come via AIR or a mechanized force which must be for 24 hours ready to reach every point in the hostile area in 20-30 minutes. This is the time window which the Soldiers must fight till last men and bullet must survive.

We need a order like that here Order No. 227 for the whole Army, Frontier Corps and Police, to teach the enemy that attacking our Pakistan will be answered by harder battle and punishment !

Read that my friend:

Order No. 227

Order No. 227 issued on July 28, 1942 was a grand order issued by Joseph Stalin who was acting as the People's Commissar of Defense. It is famous for its line "Not one step back!".No commander and Soldier had the right to retreat without an order. Anyone who did so was subject to a military tribunal of the corresponding seniority level or shoot from the commanders.

So according to you, our soldiers are more or less on the retreat that they need an Order 227, where and how did you come up with that and how in the hell are you in any position to make critique of the Army's performace, any and all agressions are being fought without the need for some bs ''Order''....

 

[denel]

What do you think of the R4 ? My brother used it once for hunting and said that it was having problems even on Blesbok (with good shot placement)...the buck needed more than one shot to bring it down. He also shot an eland with it in the head and later when they were skinning it he said it did not penetrate the skull.

R4 is no good for hunting - it was not designed for it. 5.56mm is useless for any larger game than an impala. In SA, R4 is illegal for civilian use - only R5 is allowed but severely modified mechanism. I am not sure where you got it. We were not allowed to take it off base under any circumstances. The new rules of firearm possession are more stricter than before. In Namibia and Botswana it is impossible to have a firearm.