SC brings up Brutus during marine case hearing

[BJP*]

SC brings up ‘Brutus’ during marine case hearing​

NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Monday referred to Brutus from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar while dealing with the alleged violation of naval guards by Italian ambassador Daniele Mancini to bring back two marines facing trial in India.

Attorney general G E Vahanvati read out the March 15 note verbale from the Italian embassy demanding complete immunity and freedom of movement, including travelling out of India, for Mancini and indirectly questioning the authority of the Supreme Court to restrain him from going out of the country.

The note verbale started with a reminder and said the embassy "has the honour to remind the ministry of external affairs of the obligations relating to the protection of diplomatic agents enshrined in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of April 18, 1961".

As Vahanvati read the word "honour", the bench headed by Chief Justice Altamas Kabir, which made clear its displeasure over the breach of undertaking by Mancini, asked the AG not to mention "honour" in the communication.

Justice Kabir said, "This reminds us of the word 'honourable' used to describe Brutus in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar." The CJI did not elaborate. But it explained the feelings of the court on breach of a sovereign undertaking by Italy and a personal undertaking by Mancini to bring back the two marines after the four-week leave beginning on February 22.

In Shakespeare's play, Marcus Brutus was a close friend of Caesar. Another character Cassius refers to Brutus as a "noble" and "honourable" character. But finding Brutus joining a group of conspiring senators plotting Caesar's assassination because of the rumour about Caesar turning Rome into a monarchy, Cassius says, "Yet I see that your honourable character can be bent from its usual shape, which proves that good men should stick only to the company of other good men, because who is so firm that he can't be seduced?"

When the senators launch a mortal attack on Caesar and finding his close friend among the assassins, Caesar exclaims, "Et Tu Brutus (You too Brutus!)."

The bench said some people had written that the Supreme Court was naive to let the marines go on the ambassador's personal undertaking. "Were we naive? Should we have not accorded importance to a sovereign guarantee and a personal guarantee from an ambassador? If we act in furtherance to a sovereign guarantee, are we naive," the bench asked.

This is not the first time that the Supreme Court has permitted foreign nationals, facing criminal cases in India, to visit their country on the basis of undertakings from diplomats.

Three Chinese - Wu Chuannan, Wang Weiqing and Liu Gaoxuan - were repeatedly permitted by the Supreme Court between 2010 and 2012 to go out of the country after the consul general of China in Kolkata gave undertaking.

The court had recorded no objection from Chhattisgarh standing counsel Atul Jha and permitted the Chinese to go to their country, which included two weeks to two of them to get married, on the assurance given by the power company they worked for, the consul general's undertaking and a bank guarantee of Rs 1 crore.

But the Chinese never breached their undertaking or assurances as is the case of Italy now before the Supreme Court.
SC brings up ‘Brutus’ during marine case hearing - The Times of India
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Why I posted this news?

I think power of words are more valuable in eastern world rather than western world. In India many businesses are done verbally which are based on trust. Even today, especially in rural India, paper work is done rarely and the two persons can get engage in crucial business. Business is done on the basis of power of words. Even in our ancient texts it is written "Praan jaye par vachan na jaye" which means "Let the life go but not the commitment".

Even our Supreme court has realized this. They relied on Chinese company's words (even guarantee of chinese ambassador was not required.) and sent the criminals back to their country for personal reasons, in return, Chinese company remained committed to their words. Our SC assumed similar commitment from Italy. They mistook Italy for china. In western world, verbal commitment matters least and self intrest matters most. This is the reason why even few Britishers were able to rule in India. Britishers committed to Indian rulers for power and got them engaged in fight and when rulers became weak they themselves snatched their kingdom

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Three Chinese - Wu Chuannan, Wang Weiqing and Liu Gaoxuan - were repeatedly permitted by the Supreme Court between 2010 and 2012 to go out of the country after the consul general of China in Kolkata gave undertaking.

The court had recorded no objection from Chhattisgarh standing counsel Atul Jha and permitted the Chinese to go to their country, which included two weeks to two of them to get married, on the assurance given by the power company they worked for, the consul general's undertaking and a bank guarantee of Rs 1 crore.

But the Chinese never breached their undertaking or assurances as is the case of Italy now before the Supreme Court.
SC brings up ‘Brutus’ during marine case hearing - The Times of India
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Why I posted this news?

I think power of words are more valuable in eastern world rather than western world. In India many businesses are done verbally which are based on trust. Even today, especially in rural India, paper work is done rarely and the two persons can get engage in crucial business. Business is done on the basis of power of words. Even in our ancient texts it is written "Praan jaye par vachan na jaye" which means "Let the life go but not the commitment".

Even our Supreme court has realized this. They relied on Chinese company's words (even guarantee of chinese ambassador was not required.) and sent the criminals back to their country for personal reasons, in return, Chinese company remained committed to their words. Our SC assumed similar commitment from Italy. They mistook Italy for china. In western world, verbal commitment matters least and self intrest matters most. This is the reason why even few Britishers were able to rule in India. Britishers committed to Indian rulers for power and got them engaged in fight and when rulers became weak they themselves snatched their kingdom

It is important to keep promises.

If a person cannot keep a promise, they should not make it in the first place.

 

[Srinivas]

@BJP good thread mate cheers

 

[Star Wars]

Chinese seem to be far more trust worthy than most of the western nations except France maybe...

 

[Skull and Bones]

Chinese seem to be far more trust worthy than most of the western nations except France maybe...

Money talks in the west, they don't have the societal values like we have in the east.

 

[T90TankGuy]

even today in business a word means everything . if you have committed to pay someone on a certain day you honor it. the Italians do not understand this . they look for loopholes after making a promise.

 

[Abingdonboy]

GoI should have known the values of these Westerners aren't like those of the East. Italians especially are slippery fish.

 

[arp2041]

@BJP* Great find Mate

 

[Developereo]

GoI should have known the values of these Westerners aren't like those of the East.

Says an Indian living in the UK.

 

[janon]

Let's not make it an east versus west thing, and fall to the mythical narrative of simple hearted easterners and cunning westerners. From songs to political and historical discourse, we tend to paint that picture every time.

"honton pe sachai rehti hai, jahaan dil pe safaai rehti hain" and so on.

That is simply not true, we are all intelligent to the same degree, we can all think and act rationally to the same degree. People are the same everywhere.

This particular incident is an outrageous act of betrayal by the Italian government. It was a breach of promise made by the govt of Italy to the govt of india, and by the Italian ambassador to the supreme court. However, it was NOT a betrayal of eastern civilization by western civilization or anything like that.

Currently, despite everybody making fun of Indians on PDF on this issue, the fact is that internationally it is the Italian govt that is being seen seen in poor light, as a gross violator of diplomatic norms, by breaking official promises made through official channels, and taking advantage of their (ex) friendly relations with India. Even the Italian public, while happy about their marines' return, are still unhappy about the conduct of their govt. If India plays this right, the rest of the world will find it difficult to side with Italy.

 

[Kazhugu]

nothing to do with values......or anything......


in india and china human life is expendable.....what big deal is one or two life in 1 billion lives....after all so many die daily in so many ways........in west it is not like that.....they care for each and every one of theirs.....no matter what.....and especially if its concerning a non-western country......stop bringing in ghairat into this........

supreme court was idiotic in letting them go without examining if they could have used postal ballot or not...no point giving these idiotic...oh they cheated us.....bleddy cheaters....line of logic, now....

 

[Screambowl]

In the world It is ONLY INDIA who is following the rules. NO country follows them when it comes to protecting its citizens. But Our great Indian leaders do no give a damn about citizens of India. India needs to change the policy from 'fighting terrorism' to 'protecting the citizens' inside the four walls which will bring changes automatically.

I appreciate Pakistan's ISI that at least they have guts to disobey the world community and bring fear to latter's heart. India has become a soft state.. haanji haanji karke bc marwa di salo ne.

 

[kurup]

Says an Indian living in the UK.

So he will know better , Doesn't he ??

 

[Awesome]

Please don't create these ridiculous thread titles.

 

[janon]

nothing to do with values......or anything......


in india and china human life is expendable........in west it is not.....they care for each and every one of theirs.....no matter what.....stop bringing in ghairat into this........

The song that I mentioned in my earlier post goes on to say "yeh poorab hain, poorab waale / Har jaan ke keemat jaante hain."

That is why we should stop thinking in terms of these stereotypes, because such perceptions are always transient. Sometimes we say human lives are precious to us, but not to westerners, sometimes we say the opposite. It is time we stopped thinking in terms of east or west. Does India represent "east"? Does Italy represent "west"?

This is strictly about the Italian government's violation of diplomatic relations. Come 22nd, they should pay the price for it. India does have enough diplomatic and economic clout to make them rue this act. Everybody here may be aware of the 60,000 crore defence contracts they were eyeing from India in the next few years. That is only a small part of the massive Indian defence modernization pie. They can say goodbye to both, but other than that, they can also say goodbye to India as a market for any of their goods. Italy is the sick man of Europe, living on dole from the german and EU economic machine. If we play our cards right, we can squeeze them on that front, lure European investors away from Italy with bigger prospects from India. Put pressure on French and german companies to not invest much in Italy, by hanging the carrot of the Indian market in front of them. They wil not care about any "east" or "west", only about interests and opportunities. And that is how we should see it too.