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Saudi Arabia wants to join Tempest 6 generation fighter project

Am I missing something ? I always thought the Gulf Arabs were poor on human resources. Maybe things have changed

You thought wrong, my Indian friend. Arabs are a civilizational people. The oldest civilizations and cultures in the world are located in the Arab world. Science literally emerged in the Arab world. Arabs during the Islamic Golden Age state pioneered science for 500 years until the Sack of Baghdad in 1258.

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Ever wondered why astronomy, medicine etc. is full of words of Arabic origin?

Just a free educational service for you and others. Saudi Arabias are NOT "Gulf Arabs".

It was and is naturally that smaller populated Gulf Arab states (Khaleeji in Arabic) such as Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman etc. have problems with manpower (which would be naturally for any country which such relatively small local populations) but that does not go for KSA with almost 30 million natives and with a population that is growing.

In any case to the defense of the smaller GCC states, their local populations are some of the most educated pr. capita as a consequence and are PUNCHING WAY ABOVE their population as such. Wealth of natural resources is helping here as well as well as them welcoming millions of expats to settle in their countries. Their populations are growing as well.

Maybe true.
Fact of the matter is that the GCC doesn't face the security challenges that we do.
The arabian peninsula has natural water barrier,
and west side is managed through friendly countries.

I disagree. Yemen is basically their Afghanistan, notoriously unstable Horn of Africa with a rising regional power like Ethiopia that is approaching a 200 million big population, Africa as a whole having an enormous population growth that is also the largest in the world by far (which is both negative and positive for Arabs - in this case the Arabs of the GCC), 1 country in Africa alone such as Nigeria will likely have a population the size of Pakistan and Bangladesh combined in the not so distant future, you can imagine the potential problems with illegal migrants that GCC might face, KSA is already flooded with illegal African migrants - KSA is routinely deporting 20.000 + illegals on a weekly basis - enough said, nuclear armed Israel that will always be favored by the US (until demographics change in that country which they eventually will as well), the potential problem/challenge of Mullah-ruled Iran meddling in the Arab world and vicinity (Iraq + Yemen), Turkey not far away with their own plans, potentially unstable 110 million big Egypt next door, Sudan similarly etc.

As such far from an ideal or stable neighborhood. If anything nothing compared to the peaceful/problem-free location of for instance countries like the UK, Australia etc.
Of course looking at West Asia as a whole, the Arabian Peninsula probably has the best geopolitically strategic location overall, also in regards to natural geographical barriers, but the immediate area paints a very different picture.
 
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Anyway this is basically confirmed, also given the close ties between KSA and UK. Not only military ties but economic. KSA is one of the main investors in the UK buying influence/investments in almost every sector in the UK. GCC states combined own literally half of London, lol.


In English.

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KSA defense firms have already confirmed their participation.

Khaled bin Salman is the defense minister, he would not be writing this publicly on his Twitter if not the case.

Confirmed by the UK source as well.


In any case, KSA will benefit a lot from this partnership, the obsessed haters can keep crying.


Fake news.
 
You thought wrong, my Indian friend. Arabs are a civilizational people. The oldest civilizations and cultures in the world are located in the Arab world. Science literally emerged in the Arab world. Arabs during the Islamic Golden Age state pioneered science for 500 years until the Sack of Baghdad in 1258.

mini_magick20220710-15595-zzwxd6.png


915LsJNw8WL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg


71j-EPQAuEL.jpg


Ever wondered why astronomy, medicine etc. is full of words of Arabic origin?

Just a free educational service for you and others. Saudi Arabias are NOT "Gulf Arabs".

It was and is naturally that smaller populated Gulf Arab states (Khaleeji in Arabic) such as Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman etc. have problems with manpower (which would be naturally for any country which such relatively small local populations) but that does not go for KSA with almost 30 million natives and with a population that is growing.

In any case to the defense of the smaller GCC states, their local populations are some of the most educated pr. capita as a consequence and are PUNCHING WAY ABOVE their population as such. Wealth of natural resources is helping here as well as well as them welcoming millions of expats to settle in their countries. Their populations are growing as well.



I disagree. Yemen is basically their Afghanistan, notoriously unstable Horn of Africa with a rising regional power like Ethiopia that is approaching a 200 million big population, Africa as a whole having an enormous population growth that is also the largest in the world by far (which is both negative and positive for Arabs - in this case the Arabs of the GCC), 1 country in Africa alone such as Nigeria will likely have a population the size of Pakistan and Bangladesh combined in the not so distant future, you can imagine the potential problems with illegal migrants that GCC might face, KSA is already flooded with illegal African migrants - KSA is routinely deporting 20.000 + illegals on a weekly basis - enough said, nuclear armed Israel that will always be favored by the US (until demographics change in that country which they eventually will as well), the potential problem/challenge of Mullah-ruled Iran meddling in the Arab world and vicinity (Iraq + Yemen), Turkey not far away with their own plans, potentially unstable 110 million big Egypt next door, Sudan similarly etc.

As such far from an ideal or stable neighborhood. If anything nothing compared to the peaceful/problem-free location of for instance countries like the UK, Australia etc.
Of course looking at West Asia as a whole, the Arabian Peninsula probably has the best geopolitically strategic location overall, also in regards to natural geographical barriers, but the immediate area paints a very different picture.

Actually NO.
majority of the so called Arab scientists and philosophers are not ethnic Arabs.
or second grade arabs at best.
Most of the so called philosophers have Persian or central asian roots.
and the oldest civilizations were not Arab, that goes to Iran.
 
Actually NO.
majority of the so called Arab scientists and philosophers are not ethnic Arabs.
or second grade arabs at best.
Most of the so called philosophers have Persian or central asian roots.
and the oldest civilizations were not Arab, that goes to Iran.

Actually YES.

Not true at all and quite frankly a nonsense comment. Vast majority were Arabs and this is well established hence it being widely called the Arab Islamic Golden Age as well by scholars and historians.


Compare that list in number and scholars to this below and there is a clear winner (Arabs).


Mind, you, Wikipedia is already dominated by ultranationalistic Iranian editors who are trying to rewrite history.

And the most funny thing is that all those Iranian scholars were thoroughly Arabized, wrote in Arabic, studied at Arab funded and run Islamic learning centers in Arab cities and Arab regions. Compare their almost non-existent pre-Islamic scientific output to that of the Islamic age under the Arab Umayyads, Abbasids etc.

Are you joking? The cradle of civilization is the Fertile Crescent which is the Arab heartland. The oldest civilizations and ancient cultures, cities etc. are all mostly found in the Arab world. Mesopotamia, Levant, Arabia, Egypt etc. Even the oldest region of Iran (in terms of history), Khuzestan is Mesopotamian/Arabian geographically and historically. To this day inhabited by Arabs/Semitic speaking peoples.


Science was literally developed in the Arab world as were agriculture, the first cities, the wheel, science, mathematics, astronomy, world's oldest religions, the first recorded rulers etc. (list is enormous).

All the way back to the Natufians (Neolithic times)


Just in KSA alone you have ancient civilization/pre-historic cultures that predate anything recorded in Iran by millennia.


Iran with its recorded 2500 years history (recorded by no other than the ancestors of Arabs - such as the Semitic Assyrians) is a newcomer in comparison to the Arabs/Arab world. Every single historian will tell you that. Not only that, the Arab world was inhabited by humans 10.000's of years before Iran even became inhabited by said humans that migrated from Arabia/Arab lands to Iran.

Heck, the Arabs even pioneered an agricultural revolution in Europe in Al-Andalus where there were zero Iranians in sight.


You need to restudy history or stop reading Iranian propaganda that seems to be flooding Pakistan of late in this department.

It is almost as absurd as the many failed/futile attempts of Iranians to steal the history of Arabs/Semites and in particular that of Iraq, the only Arab country that they border directly. A shame that there are no Iraqi users here, they would have a field day.

Having said that, yes Iran is an old civilization as well, but I struggle to understand the obsession that so many Pakistanis have with it and those that usually have (you seem to be among them) have another obsession of downplaying Arabs 24/7 and rewriting their history (world history in fact) and seemingly thinking that Arab existence emerged 80 years ago when oil and gas was discovered.

Fun fact, Pakistanis (IVC) have a far richer ancient history than Iran has. A shame that it is not more celebrated.

Another thing, Iranic populations in Pakistan do not equal Iranians. Most of our DNA is native and the Iranic part does not derive from Iran but mostly Central Asia (Andronovo). There is ancient Neolithic "Iranian" DNA in Pakistanis but that "Iranian Neolithic DNA" (there were no nation states 10.000-12.000 years ago) is ultimately deriving from "Arab/Semitic Neolithic DNA" in Southern Levant (Natufians).

The Farsi that influenced native Pakistani languages and Urdu post-Islam is flooded (half of it) with Arabic words that we Pakistanis (most of us) are totally unaware of thinking that everything is Farsi or Turkic because the "stupid" Arabs could impossibly have such a rich literature/linguistic influence. We think that everything that came to Pakistan from the West is "Persian/Iranian" so I am not surprised by your post. Heck, we have users here that claim that Islam came with the Iranians and Turks, not the Arabs. A few weeks ago I saw compatriots claiming that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was actually of Iranian origin.

So given this level of "knowledge" I am not surprised by your ignorant/false/absurd post. No offense, I am only criticizing the content of your post, not your person, I don't know you etc. for obvious reasons.

Lol. If the Arabs want to exclude us. We will partner with China.

What are you talking about? What has this to do with Pakistan again? This is UK-KSA cooperation, we are irrelevant to this cooperation as much as say Suriname is.

Without knowing it, I would assume that this cooperation with the UK will be ONE OF MANY for KSA. They are already cooperating closely with China on numerous strategic military and non-military fronts.
 
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Actually YES.

Not true at all and quite frankly a nonsense comment. Vast majority were Arabs and this is well established hence it being widely called the Arab Islamic Golden Age as well by scholars and historians.


Compare that list in number and scholars to this below and there is a clear winner (Arabs).


Mind, you, Wikipedia is already dominated by ultranationalistic Iranian editors who are trying to rewrite history.

And the most funny thing is that all those Iranian scholars were thoroughly Arabized, wrote in Arabic, studied at Arab funded and run Islamic learning centers in Arab cities and Arab regions. Compare their almost non-existent pre-Islamic scientific output to that of the Islamic age under the Arab Umayyads, Abbasids etc.

Are you joking? The cradle of civilization is the Fertile Crescent which is the Arab heartland. The oldest civilizations and ancient cultures, cities etc. are all mostly found in the Arab world. Mesopotamia, Levant, Arabia, Egypt etc. Even the oldest region of Iran (in terms of history), Khuzestan is Mesopotamian/Arabian geographically and historically. To this day inhabited by Arabs/Semitic speaking peoples.


Science was literally developed in the Arab world as were agriculture, the first cities, the wheel, science, mathematics, astronomy, world's oldest religions, the first recorded rulers etc. (list is enormous).

All the way back to the Natufians (Neolithic times)


Just in KSA alone you have ancient civilization/pre-historic cultures that predate anything recorded in Iran by millennia.


Iran with its recorded 2500 years history (recorded by no other than the ancestors of Arabs - such as the Semitic Assyrians) is a newcomer in comparison to the Arabs/Arab world. Every single historian will tell you that. Not only that, the Arab world was inhabited by humans 10.000's of years before Iran even became inhabited by said humans that migrated from Arabia/Arab lands to Iran.

Heck, the Arabs even pioneered an agricultural revolution in Europe in Al-Andalus where there were zero Iranians in sight.


You need to restudy history or stop reading Iranian propaganda that seems to be flooding Pakistan of late in this department.

It is almost as absurd as the many failed/futile attempts of Iranians to steal the history of Arabs/Semites and in particular that of Iraq, the only Arab country that they border directly. A shame that there are no Iraqi users here, they would have a field day.

Having said that, yes Iran is an old civilization as well, but I struggle to understand the obsession that so many Pakistanis have with it and those that usually have (you seem to be among them) have another obsession of downplaying Arabs 24/7 and rewriting their history (world history in fact) and seemingly thinking that Arab existence emerged 80 years ago when oil and gas was discovered.

Fun fact, Pakistanis (IVC) have a far richer ancient history than Iran has. A shame that it is not more celebrated.

Another thing, Iranic populations in Pakistan do not equal Iranians. Most of our DNA is native and the Iranic part does not derive from Iran but mostly Central Asia (Andronovo). There is ancient Neolithic "Iranian" DNA in Pakistanis but that "Iranian Neolithic DNA" (there were no nation states 10.000-12.000 years ago) is ultimately deriving from "Arab/Semitic Neolithic DNA" in Southern Levant (Natufians).

The Farsi that influenced native Pakistani languages and Urdu post-Islam is flooded (half of it) with Arabic words that we Pakistanis (most of us) are totally unaware of thinking that everything is Farsi or Turkic because the "stupid" Arabs could impossibly have such a rich literature/linguistic influence. We think that everything that came to Pakistan from the West is "Persian/Iranian" so I am not surprised by your post. Heck, we have users here that claim that Islam came with the Iranians and Turks, not the Arabs. A few weeks ago I saw compatriots claiming that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was actually of Iranian origin.

So given this level of "knowledge" I am not surprised by your ignorant/false/absurd post. No offense, I am only criticizing the content of your post, not your person, I don't know you etc. for obvious reasons.



What are you talking about? What has this to do with Pakistan again? This is UK-KSA cooperation, we are irrelevant to this cooperation as much as say Suriname is.

Without knowing it, I would assume that this cooperation with the UK will be ONE OF MANY for KSA. They are already cooperating closely with China on numerous strategic military and non-military fronts.

Read and read again my friend,
there are too many grey shades that you are overlooking.
even the definition of arab is not what it seems.
 
Am I missing something ? I always thought the Gulf Arabs were poor on human resources. Maybe things have changed
UAE in specific relies on foreign engineers but currently has 35% local engineers with 50% of those being female. Their goal is to have full Emiratization within 3-4 generations supposedly but within 10 years to be able to produce and design most guided missile system components with Emirati engineers.

They are setting their sights on producing a stealthy UCAV in house within the next 5 years after producing a TB2 sized armed drone.


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Read and read again my friend,
there are too many grey shades that you are overlooking.
even the definition of arab is not what it seems.

My friend, the definition of Arabs is pretty clear and by any case modern-day Arabs are all descending from native Semitic populations (non-Semitic too) who happen to be the founders of those wonderful and ancient civilizations spanning Mesopotamia, Arabia, Levant, Egypt etc. that far out rival anything that Iran has to offer in this department in age, influence and glory.

The widespread Ajami ignorance of Arabs = Yemen is just that. Let me tell you this, most of Yemen was Arabized similarly to how most of KSA was. There is great ignorance in regards to the origin of Arabs and early history. Arabs is basically an umbrella word for the native Semitic peoples/Afro-Asiatic speaking peoples native to the Arab world from Morocco to Oman. DNA is also confirming this.

Similarly can be said about Iranians, you would be surprised to know, that it is not as clear cut who an Iranian/Persian is. Similarly surprised to know/learn how close genetically they are to the Arabs next door. Hint, closer than to us Pakistanis. I will let you figure out why that is by your own, hint, this is not solely due to the Arab Islamic conquest and subsequent almost 500 years of rule/dominance. It goes WAY back.

And how much, almost everything, they owe to the same Arabs/Semites in terms of their pre-Islamic history. Hint, start researching from where they adopted their national symbols, their pre-Islamic scripture, why they made their capital in Babylon (foreign lands for them) of all places when they reappeared in history roughly 2500 years ago, their system of rule (King of Kings is an actual ancient Semitic title used from Arabia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Levant), why the Semitic Aramaic (closely related to Arabic) was the official language of the Achaemenids. List is endless.

Here (Iranica Encyclopedia from the horses own mouth)


Most importantly I suggest you to read up on who were the first people who even recorded Persians in history (Assyrians) to understand who is the little brother in this relationship.

This relationship is even evident in the comparison of the wider Arab world vs small Iran in comparison and the economic, population, resource etc. gap between them.

Oh and lastly, while you are at it, do some research about the rapidly Arab-obsessed Mullah's that currently rule Iran and their origins. You will soon understand why they are more worried about Arab lands than internal affairs of a crippling Iran.

Arab Shia Ulama​

After the conquest, Ismail began transforming the religious landscape of Iran by imposing Twelver Shiism on the populace. Since most of the population embraced Sunni Islam and since an educated version of Shiism was scarce in Iran at the time, Ismail imported a new Shia Ulama corps from traditional Shiite centers of the Arabic speaking lands, largely from Jabal Amil (of Southern Lebanon), Mount Lebanon, Syria, Eastern Arabia and Southern Iraq in order to create a state clergy.[42][43][44][45] Ismail offered them land and money in return for loyalty. These scholars taught the doctrine of Twelver Shiism and made it accessible to the population and energetically encouraged conversion to Shiism.[39][46][47][48] To emphasize how scarce Twelver Shiism was then to be found in Iran, a chronicler tells us that only one Shia text could be found in Ismail's capital Tabriz.[49] Thus it is questionable whether Ismail and his followers could have succeeded in forcing a whole people to adopt a new faith without the support of the Arab Shiite scholars.[41] The rulers of Safavid Persia also invited these foreign Shiite religious scholars to their court in order to provide legitimacy for their own rule over Persia.[50]

Abbas I of Persia, during his reign, also imported more Arab Shia Ulama to Iran, built religious institutions for them, including many Madrasahs (religious schools) and successfully persuaded them to participate in the government, which they had shunned in the past (following the Hidden imam doctrine).[51]


Everything that I wrote above, can be confirmed by sources other than those that I already posted.

Anyway, we are off-topic.
 
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UAE in specific relies on foreign engineers but currently has 35% local engineers with 50% of those being female. Their goal is to have full Emiratization within 3-4 generations supposedly but within 10 years to be able to produce and design most guided missile system components with Emirati engineers.

They are setting their sights on producing a stealthy UCAV in house within the next 5 years after producing a TB2 sized armed drone.


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Nothing wrong with relying on foreign help when you have a native population, in the case of the UAE, that barely exceeds 1.5 million people. The might and glory of the American industrial complex is the living evidence of that. Basically the US imported all the greatest minds of the West (Manhattan Project) and actively sought to attract educated people. To this day this is the case. This is why you have Saudi Arabian scientists working for NASA to this day and not for KSA firms. Goes for many other Arab nationalities too. In fact every nationality that I can think about, Pakistanis, Europeans, Chinese, East Asians etc.

Why are Saudi Arabian women like Mishaal Al-Shammari (aerospace engineer with her own designed missiles etc. that rival those of countries - no joke) working for NASA and developing in a US environment and not KSA first and foremost, albeit it appears that she is also working for KAUST.



The point here is that her career/opportunities were kickstarted in the US 10 + years ago, not in KSA. That should not be the case and it is a widespread problems in Arab countries with the best talents leaving for the West.

What is sad here is that Arabs, in particular the wealthy Arab states, should have kickstarted such problems much earlier, even if they lacked local manpower, by attracting Westerners and non-Westerners such as bright Muslim minds. This would have speeded up the Arab defense sector by at least 20-30 years if said ideas were kickstarted earlier. Better late than never.

People that dislike Arabs for whatever reasons will be very frustrated in the future, because there is no way that Arabs with their huge population (growing quickly too), enormous mineral resources, wealth, POLITICAL will (see developments in KSA and UAE of late) and NECESSITY, will not become largely self-sufficient in most critical fields and have a booming military sector.

In fact Arabs not playing a role as one of the few civilizational people out there and given the ground realities (enormous resources, numbers, potential, ancient and imperial history etc.) is a crime and anomaly and speaks volume about how much the Arab world has been regressing and how much instability it has been through.

Anyway my sole worry is that Arabs remain politically divided, that outsiders (powerful ones) are meddling actively etc. and that they will realize too late that Arab unity in terms of industrialization, is absolutely critical. Even if KSA and UAE succeeds, it matters little, if the rest of the Arab world is far behind. Look at Europe/West and how they have been helping each other since WW1 and how the EU has helped integrate poorer Eastern European states etc. and how much better off everyone is nowadays due to this.

I have always been saying that Arabs are the biggest waste of potential since WW1. In the world. But I have hopes of that changing soon. High hopes in fact. As long as Arabs learn from their mistakes since WW1, they will succeed.
 
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You thought wrong.

:enjoy:

You thought wrong, my Indian friend. Arabs are a civilizational people. The oldest civilizations and cultures in the world are located in the Arab world. Science literally emerged in the Arab world. Arabs during the Islamic Golden Age state pioneered science for 500 years until the Sack of Baghdad in 1258.

My take on Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE is that they are poor in human resource development. They have the luxury of petro-dollars and all the amenities it can be purchase. To be fair I do not pay attention to these things. I see Saudis studying in American universities. I do not know good a student they are

The old glorious Arab civilizations were located in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. There is little evidence of any kind of diffusion to rest of the Arab World.
 
:enjoy:



My take on Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE is that they are poor in human resource development. They have the luxury of petro-dollars and all the amenities it can be purchase. To be fair I do not pay attention to these things. I see Saudis studying in American universities. I do not know good a student they are

The old glorious Arab civilizations were located in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. There is little evidence of any kind of diffusion to rest of the Arab World.

The state of Arab society in early 20th century was visible to everyone
 
:enjoy:



My take on Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE is that they are poor in human resource development. They have the luxury of petro-dollars and all the amenities it can be purchase. To be fair I do not pay attention to these things. I see Saudis studying in American universities. I do not know good a student they are

The old glorious Arab civilizations were located in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. There is little evidence of any kind of diffusion to rest of the Arab World.

Your ignorant and uniformed take is completely and utterly irrelevant. Your agenda in this thread is clearly to write idiotic one-liners with the sole aim to troll/derail the thread. I have seen you doing that in numerous Pakistan-related threads as well as Arab/Middle Eastern ones.

You seem to pay attention, as you are commenting in this very thread. Now think the other way around, how many Arabs would be commenting if it was the other way around, lol? So it is obvious that you care enough to be writing ignorant drivel in this thread.

Once again showing your ignorance, Egypt, Arabia (Hejaz, Yemen, Eastern Arabia, Oman, Najd, Jordan etc.), Libya, rest of North Africa etc. did not exist now out of a sudden.

I suggest reading posts 31, 36 and 39. Maybe you will learn something new and not remain an ignorant.

Hint, every Arab state has older civilizations and cultures and recorded history than India. Same goes for Pakistan that your likes have been trying to steal history from since 1948. Even the name of India is stolen from Sindhi language and Pakistan (IVC).

Next time don't hide under US flags but use your Indian flag when trolling.
 
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Your ignorant and uniformed take is completely and utterly irrelevant. Your agenda in this thread is clearly to write idiotic one-liners with the sole aim to troll/derail the thread. I have seen you doing that in numerous Pakistan-related threads as well as Arab/Middle Eastern ones.

You seem to pay attention, as you are commenting in this very thread. Now think the other way around, how many Arabs would be commenting if it was the other way around, lol? So it is obvious that you care enough to be writing ignorant drivel in this thread.

Once again showing your ignorance, Egypt, Arabia (Hejaz, Yemen, Eastern Arabia, Oman, Najd, Jordan etc.), Libya, rest of North Africa etc. did not exist now out of a sudden.

I suggest reading posts 31, 36 and 39. Maybe you will learn something new and not remain an ignorant.

Hint, every Arab state has older civilizations and cultures and recorded history than India. Same goes for Pakistan that your likes have been trying to steal history from since 1948. Even the name of India is stolen from Sindhi language and Pakistan (IVC).

Next time don't hide under US flags but use your Indian flag when trolling.

No amount of f*rting will rectify the fact the Arab world has fallen and shows no sign of recovering. Do not blame the West. The West ruled the Arab world for a short time.

I can say Arabs inherited a lot of knowledge from Greek centers of learning and made marginal improvements. Most of Eygpt's achievements are under the Pharoahs and Greek rule.
 
Lol. If the Arabs want to exclude us. We will partner with China.

The coping of Pakistanis is strong; I'm reminded of these lyrics from a song when I think of my countrymen:

I don't see how you can hate from outside of the club
You can't even get in
 

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