Saudi Arabia Set to Buy Four Lockheed Martin Freedom-Class Variants in $11.25B Deal

[C130]

seems they are a beefier verison of the LCS the U.S is getting

MMSC features two 8-cell Mk 41 VLS that can carry 16 SM-2 or 64 ESSMs in total, as well as an OTO Melara 76 mm main gun, Harpoon Block II anti-ship missiles, and torpedos. It will also have an MH-60R helicopter, ASW sonar suites, and the Link 16 data-link for interoperability with regional U.S. forces.

 

[black-hawk_101]

Better for KSA to buy 4 of each from the 3 Versions of LM LCS.

 

[wassil]

If the amount of the contract is correct I think it's one of the biggest rip offs in the history of weapon purchage contracts!
These LCS warships are only worth around 360 million each, if one quickly does the maths they could buy 31 of them .... I just don't see how could the contract be stretched to 2.8 bilion?......
it just doesn't make sense!.... I'm guessing the contract may include much more than has been declared

 

[Zarvan]

If the amount of the contract is correct I think it's one of the biggest rip offs in the history of weapon purchage contracts!
These LCS warships are only worth around 360 million each, if one quickly does the maths they could buy 31 of them .... I just don't see how could the contract be stretched to 2.8 bilion?......
it just doesn't make sense!.... I'm guessing the contract may include much more than has been declared

The 360 million is for the ones which don't have any weapons on board. The more weapons you add price goes up

 

[wassil]

The 360 million is for the ones which don't have any weapons on board. The more weapons you add price goes up

I am sorry bro it really doesn't matter how one would play up with the numbers ....these LCS warships are light and very limited by design on the type of weapons they can include ... I'm afraid if the amount is correct it's looking more like the Yamamah corruption scandal....Our Saudi brothers have been had again....I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Penguin]

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/saudi-arabia-set-to-buy-four-lockheed-martin-freedom-class-variants-in-11-25b-deal.404251/#ixzz3pPUH3NW8

LCS unit cost and program cost:



Littoral combat ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, that's about half a billion dollars per ship.

Aside from a multiyear support/maintenance package for the 4 ships, there is clearly a more comprehensive FMS deal.


Kingdom of Saudi Arabia - Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) Ships | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

So, the differences between total costs and value of MDE (about 8 billion USD) is 'multiyear services', which - if you consider the ship's' expected service life of 40 years - is not that much per year (200 million annually, the value of which declines over time). Compare that to the annual operating cost of 4 ships.

I suggest you gentlemen acqaint yourselves with the details of the deal.

Lockheed prepared variants of the LCS design for the international market, with hulls larger and smaller than the US Navy’s 118-meter long version. The top ship is 150 meters long, with VLS fore and aft, a bigger gun, and a phased-array sensor suite. The LCS 1-class hull is center, with an 85-meter corvette at bottom. All the variants are fitted with a hull-mounted sonar. (Lockheed Martin) Note the middle hull is more heavily armed than LCS1

 

[black-hawk_101]

I suggest you gentlemen acqaint yourselves with the details of the deal.

Lockheed prepared variants of the LCS design for the international market, with hulls larger and smaller than the US Navy’s 118-meter long version. The top ship is 150 meters long, with VLS fore and aft, a bigger gun, and a phased-array sensor suite. The LCS 1-class hull is center, with an 85-meter corvette at bottom. All the variants are fitted with a hull-mounted sonar. (Lockheed Martin) Note the middle hull is more heavily armed than LCS1

I am 100% sure that KSA is buying about 4 150 meter one. But later will order more of the 2nd and 3rd ones, may be 4 each.

 

[wassil]

I suggest you gentlemen acqaint yourselves with the details of the deal.

Lockheed prepared variants of the LCS design for the international market, with hulls larger and smaller than the US Navy’s 118-meter long version. The top ship is 150 meters long, with VLS fore and aft, a bigger gun, and a phased-array sensor suite. The LCS 1-class hull is center, with an 85-meter corvette at bottom. All the variants are fitted with a hull-mounted sonar. (Lockheed Martin) Note the middle hull is more heavily armed than LCS1

If the USNI news website is accurate then there is nothing outstanding about the LCS warships, ... RGM 84 block2, Oto Melara 76 sr, airbus trs 4d ( I don't know where they got the extra dimension from ..it is just a 3d air volume surveillance radar.
I'm sure there is more to the details however when we see Britain building 2 state of the art aircraft carriers for just over 6 billion for both, type 45 destroyers for just over a billion pounds each ... personally I am not surprised to see so many raised eyebrows given the history of past contract scandals.

 

[Penguin]

If the USNI news website is accurate then there is nothing outstanding about the LCS warships, ... RGM 84 block2, Oto Melara 76 sr, airbus trs 4d ( I don't know where they got the extra dimension from ..it is just a 3d air volume surveillance radar.
I'm sure there is more to the details however when we see Britain building 2 state of the art aircraft carriers for just over 6 billion for both, type 45 destroyers for just over a billion pounds each ... personally I am not surprised to see so many raised eyebrows given the history of past contract scandals.

I haven't made any remarks about the quality or capability of the ship(s), just that the KSA ships would be different and hence more expensive than those for the USN. I've shown that the cost of USN ships started at around $700m and will go down as more are built. I've also shown that there is a lot more to the deal than just the ships and even any equipment/ordnance associates with it. You have to consider the industrial, educational and manpower issues of KSA: foreign nationals living in Saudi Arabia make up more than 20% of the population and they are mostly there to do work. The deal includes servicing, probably during the entire service life (40 years). I've shown that that comes down to an annual ammount which is quite comparable to the annual operating cost. UK does not have these same Industrial, educational and manpower issues and hence the amounts for 2 carriers more closely reflect the development and acquisition cost. For a proper comparision, please add annual operating costs over 40 years, as well as cost of maintenance and crew training. Then you start to compare apples with apples.

 

[wassil]

I haven't made any remarks about the quality or capability of the ship(s), just that the KSA ships would be different and hence more expensive than those for the USN. I've shown that the cost of USN ships started at around $700m and will go down as more are built. I've also shown that there is a lot more to the deal than just the ships and even any equipment/ordnance associates with it. You have to consider the industrial, educational and manpower issues of KSA: foreign nationals living in Saudi Arabia make up more than 20% of the population and they are mostly there to do work. The deal includes servicing, probably during the entire service life (40 years). I've shown that that comes down to an annual ammount which is quite comparable to the annual operating cost. UK does not have these same Industrial, educational and manpower issues and hence the amounts for 2 carriers more closely reflect the development and acquisition cost. For a proper comparison, please add annual operating costs over 40 years, as well as cost of maintenance and crew training. Then you start to compare apples with apples.

Reading your comments I now feel that nothing much has changed in Saudi Arabia since the 1950s, it's as if the entire country's defense is outsourced abroad, I really don't see the point of having a defense budget that rivals that of France and Britain and then end up with this level of dependence on foreigners....I thought the idea of building a strong defense is to assert one's sovereignty...... but not for buying a 40 years dependence contract.
Saudi Arabia has the financial resources and I'm sure with a bit a goodwill and change in way of thinking they could do far better.

 

[Penguin]

Reading your comments I now feel that nothing much has changed in Saudi Arabia since the 1950s, it's as if the entire country's defense is outsourced abroad, I really don't see the point of having a defense budget that rivals that of France and Britain and then end up with this level of dependence on foreigners....I thought the idea of building a strong defense is to assert one's sovereignty...... but not for buying a 40 years dependence contract.
Saudi Arabia has the financial resources and I'm sure with a bit a goodwill and change in way of thinking they could do far better.

Well, perhaps not 40 years, but e.g. 25-30 years (which is more typical of what planned ship life is in RN and USN)

 

[KTOOOOM]

some people are clueless
The text of the State Department announcement is below.

"WASHINGTON, Oct. 20, 2015 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) Ships and associated equipment, parts and logistical support for an estimated cost of $11.25 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale on October 19, 2015.

The Government of Saudi Arabia has requested a naval modernization program to include the sale of Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) ships and program office support. The Multi-Mission Surface Combatant program will consist of:

Four (4) MMSC ships (a derivative of the Freedom Variant of the U.S. Navy Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) Class) that incorporate five (5) COMBATSS-21 Combat Management Systems (four (4) installed, one (1) spare) with five (5) TRS-4D Radars (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)

Five (5) Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) (Mode 4- and Mode 5-capable) UPX-29 (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)

Five (5) Compact Low Frequency Active Passive Variable Depth Sonar (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)

Eight (8) MK-41 Vertical Launch Systems (VLS) (two (2) eight-cell assemblies per ship for 16 cells per hull)

Five-hundred thirty-two (532) tactical RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles (ESSM) (one hundred twenty-eight (128) installed, twenty (20) test and training rounds, three hundred eighty-four (384) spares)

Five (5) AN/SWG-l (V) Harpoon Ship Command Launch Control Systems (four (4) installed (one (1) per ship), one (1) spare)

Eight (8) Harpoon Shipboard Launchers (two (2) installed four-tube assemblies per ship)

Forty-eight (48) RGM-84 Harpoon Block II Missiles (thirty-two (32) installed, sixteen (16) test and training rounds)

Five (5) MK-15 Mod 31 SeaRAM Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)

One-hundred eighty-eight (188) RIM 116C Block II Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) (forty-four (44) installed, twelve (12) test and training rounds, one hundred thirty-two (132) spares)

Five (5) MK-75 76mm OTO Melara Gun Systems (four (4) installed, one (1) spare)

Forty-eight (48) 50-caliber machine guns (forty (40) installed (ten (10) per ship), eight (8) spares); ordnance; and Selective Availability Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM) Global Positioning System/Precise Positioning Service (GPS/PPS) navigation equipment

Also included in this sale in support of the MMSC are: study, design and construction of operations; support and training facilities; spare and repair parts; support and test equipment; communications equipment employing Link 16 equipment; Fire Control System/Ceros 200 Sensor and Illuminator; 20mm Narwhal Gun; Nixie AN/SLQ-25A Surface Ship Torpedo Defense System; MK-32 Surface Vessel Torpedo Tubes; WBR-2000 Electronic Support Measure and Threat Warning System; Automatic Launch of Expendables (ALEX) Chaff and Decoy-Launching System; ARC-210 Radios; Combined Enterprise Regional Information Exchange System (CENTRIXS); Automated Digital Network System; publications and technical documentation; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support.

In addition, this case will provide overarching program office support for the SNEP II to include: U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support, and other related elements of program support to meet necessities for program execution. The estimated value of MDE is $4.3 billion. The total estimated cost is $11.25 billion.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security goals of the United States by helping to improve the security of a strategic regional partner, which has been, and continues to be, an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East. This acquisition will enhance the stability and maritime security in the sea areas around the Arabian Peninsula and support strategic objectives of the United States.

The proposed sale will provide Saudi Arabia with an increased ability to meet current and future maritime threats from enemy weapon systems. The Multi-Mission Surface Combatant ships will provide protection-in-depth for critical industrial infrastructure and for the sea lines of communication. Saudi Arabia will use the enhanced capability to keep pace with the rapid advances in technology and to remain a viable U.S. coalition partner in the region.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region.

The principal contractor for the Multi-Mission Surface Combatant will be Lockheed Martin Corporation of Bethesda, Maryland. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale.

Implementation of this proposed sale will require the assignment of additional U.S. Government and/or contractor representatives to Saudi Arabia.

There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale."


The four ships, dubbed the Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC), are expected to be classed as frigates by the Saudis. They will be the largest component of the SNEP 2 program, which is also expected to include six corvettes, 20 to 24 patrol vessels, three maritime patrol aircraft, and 30 to 50 UAVs. Altogether, the SNEP 2 program is expected to be worth at least $16 billion.
The MMSC sale vindicates many years of work by Lockheed, which developed a number of design alternatives to appeal to the Saudi’s desire for a ship more heavily armed than US LCSs.
e armament and configuration of the Saudi MMSC is in stark contrast to the US Navy’s frigate version of the LCS, now under development. The Navy, in a decision announced in December, chose not to install vertical launch systems (VLS) for missiles or to replace the 57mm guns of the LCS with a heavier 76mm weapon. While the US frigates will have a yet-to-be-determined over-the-horizon missile, there will be no area air defense missile capability.

The Saudi ships, however, will feature a 16-cell VLS installation able to launch Evolved Sea Sparrow missiles, and will carry Harpoon Block II surface-to-surface missiles in dedicated launchers, and anti-air Rolling Airframe Missiles in a SeaRAM close-in weapon system. The MMSC will also mount a 76mm gun.