Saudi Arabia/GCC countries still reliable allies? Pakistani government's terrible diplomacy at work.

[HAIDER]

Well as expected what went on at the FATF meeting has finally come out. The three votes of Turkey, China and GCC were negated. After the Saudi led contingent voted, the American delegation simply walked over and spoke to them, and in the next round they withdrew their objection. In return I believe they are being made a full member and there are some other perks.
I remember reading the deployment of 1,000 men in Saudi and how many cheered it, but what happened here. It seems the Saudis/GCC dropped Pakistan into it without much hesitation. The Chinese gave up as now it was 2/3 and the Turks voted with determination.


On another note when I read things like this I honestly lose a great deal of hope;

Pakistan’s de facto finance minister, Miftah Ismail, has brushed off concerns that economic growth will suffer because of the country’s re-inclusion on a terrorist financing watch list, and lashed out against the United States for seeking to “embarrass” his nation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-terror-financing-list-minister-idUSKCN1GA13I

He believes growth will not suffer.....

Well as expected what went on at the FATF meeting has finally come out. The three votes of Turkey, China and GCC were negated. After the Saudi led contingent voted, the American delegation simply walked over and spoke to them, and in the next round they withdrew their objection. In return I believe they are being made a full member and there are some other perks.
I remember reading the deployment of 1,000 men in Saudi and how many cheered it, but what happened here. It seems the Saudis/GCC dropped Pakistan into it without much hesitation. The Chinese gave up as now it was 2/3 and the Turks voted with determination.


On another note when I read things like this I honestly lose a great deal of hope;

Pakistan’s de facto finance minister, Miftah Ismail, has brushed off concerns that economic growth will suffer because of the country’s re-inclusion on a terrorist financing watch list, and lashed out against the United States for seeking to “embarrass” his nation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-terror-financing-list-minister-idUSKCN1GA13I

He believes growth will not suffer.....

In exchange of Saudi vote, PA sending its army days before TAFT final countdown. Nothing is free in the world.

GCC have one bro, and the Saudis were leading it. It's everywhere.

Take a look;

http://www.fatf-gafi.org/faq/membercountriesandobservers/

waz yaar he is right Saudi are not even in this listing ...why so much media campaign

Funny thing happens on the way to FATF, journalists who dont know crap write about it and PDF users who dont know their head from their asses open threads with misleading and sometime completely wrong information

This is our media ,,, lame and yellow journalism ... I am surprised both Saudi and Turkey has nothing to do with FATF .

 

[Elite General]

Thread should be closed until there is confirmation from official FATF source(s) on the said secret voting and notice to Pakistan of going on grey list over non compliance by June.

Heck Fox, CNN and BBC are utterly mute on it whereas the source of all such news is India and Pakistan. Even western media is unwilling to publish such a blatant fake news.


@waz

What about N.Y. Times, WSJ:

https://twitter.com/x/status/967246243310088192

https://twitter.com/x/status/967085781855633408

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I have not seen a single statement from US state department or FATF officials that Pakistan will be placed on the list in june. Okay if the list is secret and this is also secret that Pakistan will be placed in june then how the hell all those News sites know about it? If News sites know about it from a leaked document where is the leaked document? At least publish it on wikileaks lol. This is all a fcuked up attempt of face saving.

Does Taliban really require money from Pak???? They have donors by tons!!! Not to mention the lucrative drugs trade and the Russian/Iranian support!!!

 

[Metanoia]

When Pakistan's govt. is hijacked by middleast haters, what else to expect.
We all have seen elements trying to build confrontation of Pakistan with Arabs, which basically has roots in Indian cold start.
Pakistan refused to join anti terrorism alliance of 41 countries lead by Saudi Arabia, due to sectarian black mail.
There was a time, when even retired soldiers of Pakistan were not allowed to takeup private jobs anywhere in middleast. Pakistan's security co-operation with middleast dropped to record low.
Later General Raheel Sharif's NoC was heldup by govt.
Now senate chairman is jumping up and down, for sending troops to Saudi Arabia.
Bloody Zardari party is asking guarantee from army, that good terrorists shall not be harmed....
These sectarian bastards in govt. are only hurting Pakistan.


Actions speaks louder than words.

Can you please educate me on the following points?

1) Who are these individuals who've "hijacked" the government and are the "middle east haters"? Even a couple of names will make do.

2) Can you please provide us with a source or a link that the retired soldiers were not allowed to take up private security jobs in the middle east? I don't think it's true that's why I ask.

3) Who are these, as you put, "good terrorists" which the Zardari party is asking guarantee for from the Army?

These are serious questions and I really would appreciate a genuine reply on them.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

KSA , did what was good for them(in there interests ) , As iran , Oman or any other country will do.... Problem is only with us , we take things according to our mentality(or culture) on international lvl. Our elite(mainly all , especially political) is compromised....... They can not think about Pakistan .......
I don't know its on topic or not , but what if we joined KSA in Yamen war??? We might get many benefits and this wont happen too.... we did not joined because of iran , guess what Iran want permanent seat for India in UNO and chabhar is under India's control.
Every country , every nation watch out for there interests , Except Pakistan.
And in the end , Thank You Turkey,,,,,,,,,,,, And thank you China............. And thank you KSA (for a lesson we never learned).

 

[Imran Khan]

ummah ummah de de chuma

 

[CHACHA"G"]

I agree Pakistan has been way too centred on the Middle East and should have balanced its ties with all, in this case SE Asia. By the way I don't agree with training them, but that's another thread. As for the workers they get paid for a job they do.



I'm not talking about that bro, I'm discussing the events that are going to lead up to a possible placing of Pakistan on the list. It's very much on the cards and Pakistan's own representative has clearly stated this. He's actually trying to soften the blow, by saying it "won't hurt".

We lost golden opportunity of relationship with central Asian Muslim Countries(which owns there freedom to us ) in 90s,,,,,,,,,,,, and we never did any thing in American or African origins , , , Our diplomacy is big failure....
Time to send all afghnis back home, time to clean Pakistan from aliens , time to bane all NGOs , time to stop all funding coming from iran or gcc , time to wake up ,,,,,,,,, We better do it on our own.

 

[Metanoia]

Would like to request the @mods to lock this thread as it's quite pointless to discuss this now.

 

[T-Rex]

“I would rather not be in the list, but I don’t think it will hurt” economic growth, Ismail said, adding that ordinary Pakistanis would not see any impact from the FATF move.

He conceded, however, that being placed on the watch list did not help Pakistan’s tarnished image abroad, and “doesn’t help” with its efforts to attract more foreign direct investment, a major goal of the government.

Sighs......

It's like saying 'It won't affect us but then again the economy will suffer because of lack of trust'. Trade cannot flourish where there's no trust and what's more important than trade? It's time for Pakistanis to decide what's more important the survival of Pakistan or their well being in the US?

I've always said it from the moment I started posting online (22 years ago) that Pakistan's only friends are Turkey and China. The rest are acquaintances, nations of interest and just a hello and goodbye basis.

Only Turkey remained by you side and do you know why? It is because of that crescent which is hated by so many 'Muslims' and non-Muslims. This is the reality of the present world. Erdogan with his insight realized this after getting back stabbed by his NATO allies. I hope Pakistan realizes it before it's too late.

 

[Cookie Monster]

There is this famous American government phrase "We don't negotiate with terrorists" ........

What does it reflect? Is it only a phrase or is it backed by solid rules, regulations and checks in place?

Pakistan has its interests ....... but US has bigger interests and some of those interests cannot ignore or keep Pakistan out of them.

If only Pakistani leaders, Bureaucracy, Government servants, establishment and policy makers hadn't sold their souls and valued Pakistan's interests over their own individual petty interests (Mayray baitay ka visa lagwa do) ...... US would have been victim of its own laws for putting Pakistan in any of the bad lists ....... it would have been a difficult difficult situation for US ....... postpone and sacrifice its own interests and pressurize Pakistan .... or cooperate and achieve their goals ......

I think it has less to do with the failure of Pak's politicians(no doubt they have failed the nation)...and more to do with the current geostrategic circumstances. China is on the rise and poses a challenge to the current world order. US is currently the sole superpower and with its NATO/Western European allies basically controls all major decision making/power wielding bodies like UN. China's rise could very well change that so it's a must for US to contain China in order to retain its status and power. This leaves three options...

1) Get China to be a staunch US ally and follow where US leads...much like U.K./France/etc

2) US must directly fight China economically and militarily and keep its power in check while US still holds the edge

3) Have someone else fight China economically and militarily to weaken it

#1 is highly unlikely...#2 would also bruise and batter US itself economically and militarily and it would be a rather pyrrhic victory. The only sound option from which US can gain the most is option 3. There is no shortage of countries that oppose China for US to pick for this purpose. There is Japan/Vietnam/Phillipines/Taiwan and to a lesser extent Indonesia, Malaysia and South Korea. Though none of these can deliver the results that US desires. China has a massive population, landmass, resources, economy and military might. So a country of similar characteristics is required. India is the only one of these potential rivals of China that comes close in this regard.

This is the reason of the major change that has occured in US/India relations and US/Pak relations. India having a two front situation with China/Pak is a major disadvantage. So India wants to busy Pak on its western border with Afghanistan by turning Afghans against Pak and having a pro India regime in Afghanistan. US is going along with India's goals here as that would be beneficial for USA's end game...which is China/India either weakening each other or keeping each other in check.

This above is entirely my speculation based on the current world events and shifting alliances. In this new Cold War of sorts India is being propped up and for that Pakistan(and its concerns about Indian influence in Afghanistan) is being put on the back burner.

Otherwise there's no reason why US wouldn't just negotiate with the Taliban in Afghanistan...place certain conditions and assurances to ensure that they wouldn't pose a threat to the US and get out of this expensive endless war which has yielded no benefits.

So there's hardly anything that Pak's leaders can do even if they were competent. US/India nexus in opposition of China is a reality, which will only strengthen with time in my opinion. This naturally degrades Pak/US relation to an extent...and Pak's closeness with China adds to this as well. The best thing that Pak can currently aim for...is try its best to do what India did during the Cold War. India had picked USSR during the Cold War but also tried not to come into conflict with US as much as possible...I guess one could call it somewhat of a non alignment though it wasn't truly that. Pak has clearly picked China's side as it needs to vis-a-vis India...but Pak should try to still have a good relation with US as much as possible and not run into conflict with US. This is where Pakistanis can only hope that their leaders will play their part effectively.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Few take-aways by this Fakir:

• Turkey stood till the last with Pak!!! Elhamdulillah!!!
• KSA feared the USA more than Allah-u Azimushshan!!! All of their worst fears will get materialized in no time inshaAllah
• The USA's options are getting increasingly limited, and so are her impacts since parallel geo-political and geo-economic planes are being created by intelligent folks who abhor the NYC bankers like anything
• As for Pak, her options are getting solitary (CPEC etc.). And, when Pak works with a singularity of purpose miracles occur - e.g, creation of Pak, nukes, missiles, JFs, defeat of the USSR, neutralizing India militarily etc.
• As for foreign trade and investment, folks don't give a damn if they're to earn dimes
• Hopefully, this might be an occasion for the Pak Deep Nation and Deep Stare to get more aligned, which results in extremely positive outcomes. The example is Turkey - especially in the last 2 years...

 

[Maarkhoor]

Well as expected what went on at the FATF meeting has finally come out. The three votes of Turkey, China and GCC were negated. After the Saudi led contingent voted, the American delegation simply walked over and spoke to them, and in the next round they withdrew their objection. In return I believe they are being made a full member and there are some other perks.
I remember reading the deployment of 1,000 men in Saudi and how many cheered it, but what happened here. It seems the Saudis/GCC dropped Pakistan into it without much hesitation. The Chinese gave up as now it was 2/3 and the Turks voted with determination.


On another note when I read things like this I honestly lose a great deal of hope;

Pakistan’s de facto finance minister, Miftah Ismail, has brushed off concerns that economic growth will suffer because of the country’s re-inclusion on a terrorist financing watch list, and lashed out against the United States for seeking to “embarrass” his nation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-terror-financing-list-minister-idUSKCN1GA13I

He believes growth will not suffer.....

Dear Waz Bhai,
Last time they needed us / army and included us in coalition without our consent by showing confidence that we / Pakistan will be there if the require our help but we refused since it is against our national interest...Right so let them to exercise the same for their national interest.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I think it has less to do with the failure of Pak's politicians(no doubt they have failed the nation)...and more to do with the current geostrategic circumstances. China is on the rise and poses a challenge to the current world order. US is currently the sole superpower and with its NATO/Western European allies basically controls all major decision making/power wielding bodies like UN. China's rise could very well change that so it's a must for US to contain China in order to retain its status and power. This leaves three options...

1) Get China to be a staunch US ally and follow where US leads...much like U.K./France/etc

2) US must directly fight China economically and militarily and keep its power in check while US still holds the edge

3) Have someone else fight China economically and militarily to weaken it

#1 is highly unlikely...#2 would also bruise and batter US itself economically and militarily and it would be a rather pyrrhic victory. The only sound option from which US can gain the most is option 3. There is no shortage of countries that oppose China for US to pick for this purpose. There is Japan/Vietnam/Phillipines/Taiwan and to a lesser extent Indonesia, Malaysia and South Korea. Though none of these can deliver the results that US desires. China has a massive population, landmass, resources, economy and military might. So a country of similar characteristics is required. India is the only one of these potential rivals of China that comes close in this regard.

This is the reason of the major change that has occured in US/India relations and US/Pak relations. India having a two front situation with China/Pak is a major disadvantage. So India wants to busy Pak on its western border with Afghanistan by turning Afghans against Pak and having a pro India regime in Afghanistan. US is going along with India's goals here as that would be beneficial for USA's end game...which is China/India either weakening each other or keeping each other in check.

This above is entirely my speculation based on the current world events and shifting alliances. In this new Cold War of sorts India is being propped up and for that Pakistan(and its concerns about Indian influence in Afghanistan) is being put on the back burner.

Otherwise there's no reason why US wouldn't just negotiate with the Taliban in Afghanistan...place certain conditions and assurances to ensure that they wouldn't pose a threat to the US and get out of this expensive endless war which has yielded no benefits.

So there's hardly anything that Pak's leaders can do even if they were competent. US/India nexus in opposition of China is a reality, which will only strengthen with time in my opinion. This naturally degrades Pak/US relation to an extent...and Pak's closeness with China adds to this as well. The best thing that Pak can currently aim for...is try its best to do what India did during the Cold War. India had picked USSR during the Cold War but also tried not to come into conflict with US as much as possible...I guess one could call it somewhat of a non alignment though it wasn't truly that. Pak has clearly picked China's side as it needs to vis-a-vis India...but Pak should try to still have a good relation with US as much as possible and not run into conflict with US. This is where Pakistanis can only hope that their leaders will play their part effectively.

Unfortunately, even the third option is already a failure for the USA!!! There's simply no way left to deter China now!!! How right Napoleon was - let China sleep (by importing drugs from India), when she wakes up the world (western of course) will cry....

 

[mkiyani]

ghairat honi chahye .. kick Afghans out to show our retaliation ... cut supply from air to ground .. bring back our troops from all over ... but lastly ghairat jagao ...

 

[Śakra]

pakistan really does have the worst foreign policy of any country I’ve ever heard about.