somebozo
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2010
- Messages
- 18,882
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
You can sit back and mourn for not getting any penny of it in your personal account.
Saudi Arabia 2017 Anti-Corruption Arrests
- Thread starter somebozo
- Start date
You can sit back and mourn for not getting any penny of it in your personal account.
monitor
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,570
- Reaction score
- 7
- Country
- Location
MIDDLE EASTSAUDI ARABIAANALYSIS
The inside story of the Saudi night of long knives
Princes, ministers and a billionaire are 'imprisoned' in the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton while the Saudi Arabian Army is said to be in an uproar
By PEPE ESCOBARNOVEMBER 6, 2017 7:42 PM (UTC+8)
The House of Saud’s King Salman devises an high-powered “anti-corruption” commission and appoints his son, Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman, a.k.a. MBS, as chairman.
Right on cue, the commission detains 11 House of Saud princes, four current ministers and dozens of former princes/cabinet secretaries – all charged with corruption. Hefty bank accounts are frozen, private jets are grounded. The high-profile accused lot is “jailed” at the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton.
THE DAILYBrief
Must-reads from across Asia - directly to your inbox
War breaks out within the House of Saud, as Asia Times had anticipated back in July. Rumors have been swirling for months about a coup against MBS in the making. Instead, what just happened is yet another MBS pre-emptive coup.
A top Middle East business/investment source who has been doing deals for decades with the opaque House of Saud offers much-needed perspective: “This is more serious than it appears. The arrest of the two sons of previous King Abdullah, Princes Miteb and Turki, was a fatal mistake. This now endangers the King himself. It was only the regard for the King that protected MBS. There are many left in the army against MBS and they are enraged at the arrest of their commanders.”
To say the Saudi Arabian Army is in uproar is an understatement. “He’d have to arrest the whole army before he could feel secure.”
Prince Miteb until recently was a serious contender to the Saudi throne. But the highest profile among the detainees belongs to billionaire Prince al-Waleed Bin Talal, owner of Kingdom Holdings, major shareholder in Twitter, CitiBank, Four Seasons, Lyft and, until recently, Rupert Murdoch’s Newscorp.
Al-Waleed’s arrest ties up with a key angle; total information control. There’s no freedom of information in Saudi Arabia. MBS already controls all the internal media (as well as the appointment of governorships). But then there’s Saudi media at large. MBS aims to “hold the keys to all the large media empires and relocate them to Saudi Arabia.”
So how did we get here?
The secrets behind the purge
The story starts with secret deliberations in 2014 about a possible “removal” of then King Abdullah. But “the dissolution of the royal family would lead to the breaking apart of tribal loyalties and the country splitting into three parts. It would be more difficult to secure the oil, and the broken institutions whatever they were should be maintained to avoid chaos.”
Instead, a decision was reached to get rid of Prince Bandar bin Sultan – then actively coddling Salafi-jihadis in Syria – and replace the control of the security apparatus with Mohammed bin Nayef.
The succession of Abdullah proceeded smoothly. “Power was shared between three main clans: King Salman (and his beloved son Prince Mohammed); the son of Prince Nayef (the other Prince Mohammed), and finally the son of the dead king (Prince Miteb, commander of the National Guard). In practice, Salman let MBS run the show.
And, in practice, blunders also followed. The House of Saud lost its lethal regime-change drive in Syria and is bogged down in an unwinnable war on Yemen, which on top of it prevents MBS from exploiting the Empty Quarter – the desert straddling both nations.
The Saudi Treasury was forced to borrow on the international markets. Austerity ruled – with news of MBS buying a yacht for almost half a billion dollars while lazing about the Cote d’Azur not going down particularly well. Hardcore political repression is epitomized by the decapitation of Shi’ite leader Sheikh Al-Nimr. Not only the Shi’ites in the Eastern province are rebelling but also Sunni provinces in the west.
As the regime’s popularity radically tumbled down, MBS came up with Vision 2030. Theoretically, it was shift away from oil; selling off part of Aramco; and an attempt to bring in new industries. Cooling off dissatisfaction was covered by royal payoffs to key princes to stay loyal and retroactive payments on back wages to the unruly masses.
Yet Vision 2030 cannot possibly work when the majority of productive jobs in Saudi Arabia are held by expats. Bringing in new jobs raises the question of where are the new (skilled) workers to come from.
Throughout these developments, aversion to MBS never ceased to grow; “There are three major royal family groups aligning against the present rulers: the family of former King Abdullah, the family of former King Fahd, and the family of former Crown Prince Nayef.”
Nayef – who replaced Bandar – is close to Washington and extremely popular in Langley due to his counter-terrorism activities. His arrest earlier this year angered the CIA and quite a few factions of the House of Saud – as it was interpreted as MBS forcing his hand in the power struggle.
According to the source, “he might have gotten away with the arrest of CIA favorite Mohammed bin Nayef if he smoothed it over but MBS has now crossed the Rubicon though he is no Caesar. The CIA regards him as totally worthless.”
Some sort of stability could eventually be found in a return to the previous power sharing between the Sudairis (without MBS) and the Chamars (the tribe of deceased King Abdullah). After the death of King Salman, the source would see it as “MBS isolated from power, which would be entrusted to the other Prince Mohammed (the son of Nayef). And Prince Miteb would conserve his position.”
MBS acted exactly to prevent this outcome. The source, though, is adamant; “There will be regime change in the near future, and the only reason that it has not happened already is because the old King is liked among his family. It is possible that there may be a struggle emanating from the military as during the days of King Farouk, and we may have a ruler arise that is not friendly to the United States.”
‘Moderate’ Salafi-jihadis, anyone?
Before the purge, the House of Saud’s incessant spin centered on a $500 billion zone straddling Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt, on the Red Sea coast, a sort of Dubai replica to be theoretically completed by 2025, powered by wind and solar energy, and financed by its sovereign wealth fund and proceeds from the Aramco IPO.
In parallel, MBS pulled another rabbit from his hat swearing the future of Saudi Arabia is a matter of “simply reverting to what we followed – a moderate Islam open to the world and all religions.”
In a nutshell: a state that happens to be the private property of a royal family inimical to all principles of freedom of expression and religion, as well as the ideological matrix of all forms of Salafi-jihadism simply cannot metastasize into a “moderate” state just because MBS says so.
RBP
Meanwhile, a pile-up of purges, coups and countercoups shall be the norm.
The inside story of the Saudi night of long knives
Princes, ministers and a billionaire are 'imprisoned' in the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton while the Saudi Arabian Army is said to be in an uproar
By PEPE ESCOBARNOVEMBER 6, 2017 7:42 PM (UTC+8)
The House of Saud’s King Salman devises an high-powered “anti-corruption” commission and appoints his son, Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman, a.k.a. MBS, as chairman.
Right on cue, the commission detains 11 House of Saud princes, four current ministers and dozens of former princes/cabinet secretaries – all charged with corruption. Hefty bank accounts are frozen, private jets are grounded. The high-profile accused lot is “jailed” at the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton.
THE DAILYBrief
Must-reads from across Asia - directly to your inbox
War breaks out within the House of Saud, as Asia Times had anticipated back in July. Rumors have been swirling for months about a coup against MBS in the making. Instead, what just happened is yet another MBS pre-emptive coup.
A top Middle East business/investment source who has been doing deals for decades with the opaque House of Saud offers much-needed perspective: “This is more serious than it appears. The arrest of the two sons of previous King Abdullah, Princes Miteb and Turki, was a fatal mistake. This now endangers the King himself. It was only the regard for the King that protected MBS. There are many left in the army against MBS and they are enraged at the arrest of their commanders.”
To say the Saudi Arabian Army is in uproar is an understatement. “He’d have to arrest the whole army before he could feel secure.”
Prince Miteb until recently was a serious contender to the Saudi throne. But the highest profile among the detainees belongs to billionaire Prince al-Waleed Bin Talal, owner of Kingdom Holdings, major shareholder in Twitter, CitiBank, Four Seasons, Lyft and, until recently, Rupert Murdoch’s Newscorp.
Al-Waleed’s arrest ties up with a key angle; total information control. There’s no freedom of information in Saudi Arabia. MBS already controls all the internal media (as well as the appointment of governorships). But then there’s Saudi media at large. MBS aims to “hold the keys to all the large media empires and relocate them to Saudi Arabia.”
So how did we get here?
The secrets behind the purge
The story starts with secret deliberations in 2014 about a possible “removal” of then King Abdullah. But “the dissolution of the royal family would lead to the breaking apart of tribal loyalties and the country splitting into three parts. It would be more difficult to secure the oil, and the broken institutions whatever they were should be maintained to avoid chaos.”
Instead, a decision was reached to get rid of Prince Bandar bin Sultan – then actively coddling Salafi-jihadis in Syria – and replace the control of the security apparatus with Mohammed bin Nayef.
The succession of Abdullah proceeded smoothly. “Power was shared between three main clans: King Salman (and his beloved son Prince Mohammed); the son of Prince Nayef (the other Prince Mohammed), and finally the son of the dead king (Prince Miteb, commander of the National Guard). In practice, Salman let MBS run the show.
And, in practice, blunders also followed. The House of Saud lost its lethal regime-change drive in Syria and is bogged down in an unwinnable war on Yemen, which on top of it prevents MBS from exploiting the Empty Quarter – the desert straddling both nations.
The Saudi Treasury was forced to borrow on the international markets. Austerity ruled – with news of MBS buying a yacht for almost half a billion dollars while lazing about the Cote d’Azur not going down particularly well. Hardcore political repression is epitomized by the decapitation of Shi’ite leader Sheikh Al-Nimr. Not only the Shi’ites in the Eastern province are rebelling but also Sunni provinces in the west.
As the regime’s popularity radically tumbled down, MBS came up with Vision 2030. Theoretically, it was shift away from oil; selling off part of Aramco; and an attempt to bring in new industries. Cooling off dissatisfaction was covered by royal payoffs to key princes to stay loyal and retroactive payments on back wages to the unruly masses.
Yet Vision 2030 cannot possibly work when the majority of productive jobs in Saudi Arabia are held by expats. Bringing in new jobs raises the question of where are the new (skilled) workers to come from.
Throughout these developments, aversion to MBS never ceased to grow; “There are three major royal family groups aligning against the present rulers: the family of former King Abdullah, the family of former King Fahd, and the family of former Crown Prince Nayef.”
Nayef – who replaced Bandar – is close to Washington and extremely popular in Langley due to his counter-terrorism activities. His arrest earlier this year angered the CIA and quite a few factions of the House of Saud – as it was interpreted as MBS forcing his hand in the power struggle.
According to the source, “he might have gotten away with the arrest of CIA favorite Mohammed bin Nayef if he smoothed it over but MBS has now crossed the Rubicon though he is no Caesar. The CIA regards him as totally worthless.”
Some sort of stability could eventually be found in a return to the previous power sharing between the Sudairis (without MBS) and the Chamars (the tribe of deceased King Abdullah). After the death of King Salman, the source would see it as “MBS isolated from power, which would be entrusted to the other Prince Mohammed (the son of Nayef). And Prince Miteb would conserve his position.”
MBS acted exactly to prevent this outcome. The source, though, is adamant; “There will be regime change in the near future, and the only reason that it has not happened already is because the old King is liked among his family. It is possible that there may be a struggle emanating from the military as during the days of King Farouk, and we may have a ruler arise that is not friendly to the United States.”
‘Moderate’ Salafi-jihadis, anyone?
Before the purge, the House of Saud’s incessant spin centered on a $500 billion zone straddling Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt, on the Red Sea coast, a sort of Dubai replica to be theoretically completed by 2025, powered by wind and solar energy, and financed by its sovereign wealth fund and proceeds from the Aramco IPO.
In parallel, MBS pulled another rabbit from his hat swearing the future of Saudi Arabia is a matter of “simply reverting to what we followed – a moderate Islam open to the world and all religions.”
In a nutshell: a state that happens to be the private property of a royal family inimical to all principles of freedom of expression and religion, as well as the ideological matrix of all forms of Salafi-jihadism simply cannot metastasize into a “moderate” state just because MBS says so.
RBP
Meanwhile, a pile-up of purges, coups and countercoups shall be the norm.
somebozo
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2010
- Messages
- 18,882
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
There had been three years of discreet investigation leading up to arrests.
So there is pretty much evidence against these guys.
Beside, King Abdullah era was marked with surge in corruption and lack of rational decision making which made it obvious that someone was deriving benefits in power echelons.
The Naif branch in their close collusion with the Mutaween have much been the force behind religious backwardism and intolerance. The power of mutaween has been systematically chopped down, leading up to the final dismissal of Naif branch from Ministry of Interior, the powerful office from where they called all shots.
Bubblegum Crisis
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
- Messages
- 2,612
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
...
Quote :
"A top Middle East business/investment source who has been doing deals for decades with the opaque House of Saud offers much-needed perspective: “This is more serious than it appears. The arrest of the two sons of previous King Abdullah, Princes Miteb and Turki - Sons of Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al Saud -, was a fatal mistake. This now endangers the King himself. It was only the regard for the King that protected MBS. There are many left in the army against MBS and they are enraged at the arrest of their commanders.”
To say the Saudi Arabian Army is in uproar is an understatement. “He’d have to arrest the whole army before he could feel secure."
…
Yes, it's perfectly true.
May God be merciful to us.
...
Quote :
"A top Middle East business/investment source who has been doing deals for decades with the opaque House of Saud offers much-needed perspective: “This is more serious than it appears. The arrest of the two sons of previous King Abdullah, Princes Miteb and Turki - Sons of Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al Saud -, was a fatal mistake. This now endangers the King himself. It was only the regard for the King that protected MBS. There are many left in the army against MBS and they are enraged at the arrest of their commanders.”
To say the Saudi Arabian Army is in uproar is an understatement. “He’d have to arrest the whole army before he could feel secure."
…
Yes, it's perfectly true.
May God be merciful to us.
...
Saif al-Arab
BANNED
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 8,873
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
MbS or no MbS reforms will not stop and nobody can stop them because the will of the people cannot be stopped. Only temporarily.
MbS is doing good. The 250.000 strong National Guard should not become the personal property of the Abdullah clan. It must be fully aligned with the remaining army and the aspirations and goals of the state.
The corrupt old guard must be removed. MbS is doing it and even Trump is in support.
Bubblegum Crisis
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
- Messages
- 2,612
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
Bullshit !!!
She is not no more the personal property of MbS - Sudairi -.
King Abdullah was a very honorable man and good, who truly loved his people - one of three unique -. He is one of the kings who ruled the most in the kingdom's history during the toughest times of all its history.
These sons do not deserve to be treated this way - and enormously think like me -. This is not how one becomes ‘a real King’.
...
Last edited:
Saif al-Arab
BANNED
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 8,873
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
I am not talking about KSA here. I am talking about the much-needed reforms that King Salman, MbS and the government have initiated since King Salman became king. Those reforms are in accordance with the will of the people and what you and I have been calling for, for years. As well as millions of others.
Which is why you can almost only see positive reactions from the people to this news.
This is not about King Abdullah who is no longer here. You know my view of him. I considered and consider him a very good king.
HOWEVER a lot of neglect and corruption occurred under King Abdullah as well as passive foreign policy that did us no good.
King Abdullah is only partially to blame for that because he surrendered himself with ineffective people and most likely gave them too much trust and believed the best in them. King Abdullah was the de facto leader of KSA since 1995 (when King Fahd suffered from a serious stroke) until his death in January of 2015.
MbS is rightly trying to centralize power in order to avoid past mistakes.
The National Guard should not be the priority of the Abdullah clan or any other clan within the House of Saud. It should be the sole property of the government in power at all times. Any kind of nepotism must be combated and I rather have nepotism limited to a branch or 1 single clan rather than several. In a perfect world no such thing would occur but we all know that power and corruption go hand in hand everywhere to a smaller or larger degree.
BTW, the guilt or innocence of those dismissed or arrested will be determined in a court of law. I don't think that MbS arrested them without reason and even less so knowing how powerful some of those arrested people are. We will find out and know more about it in the future.
If this is a power play for the sake of it, I of course don't support it, because a part of the reforms that KSA must undergo, is allowing sane and non-violent criticism. Or more of it at least being voiced in public and without intellectuals, poets, writers, religious figures, ministers etc. having anything to fear as long as no treason or calls for violence are uttered.
However I am all in support of 90% of the arrests back in September when many of those arrested are mostly extremists (in my view) by all accounts or people trying to undermine the reforms. We can't have that in crucial times like those. Either they follow with the times or perish. As MbS said, we will not waste another 30-40 years on this nonsense and waste another generation. If that means arresting people, so be it. EVEN if they are sons of previous respected kings. But even that should not help them at all if they are guilty of crimes.
If the people in power, the army, state institutions, the society etc. will not be on the same page (mostly) then indeed there is potential for unrest but I can assure you that most of us will not allow this to happen despite strong differences like in any other country of the world. Nor the Arab world, neighboring countries or the international community.
BTW there is a lot of fake news being circulated online right now:
Last edited:
Bubblegum Crisis
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
- Messages
- 2,612
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
We (KSA) did not have the capabilities, neither All Power to Act Alone - Obama's Middle East Disengagement Foreign Policy -
And for the rest (A real answer to this) : “King Abdullah was a very honorable man and good, who truly loved his people - one of three unique -. He is one of the kings who ruled the most in the kingdom's history during the toughest times of all its history.
These sons do not deserve to be treated this way - and enormously think like me -. This is not how one becomes ‘a real King’.”
There will be no other governments after this. It will be the only ‘Sudairi clan’. More for the worse than the best. No agreement between any clans - clans that will always exist (Arab DNA) -.
You are so naive, brother - or too idealistic -.
...
Last edited:
Saif al-Arab
BANNED
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 8,873
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
I disagree a bit here. Also I was not only talking about the Obama period but way back too.
You are assuming that Mutaib and Turki are innocent. I am assuming that 1) you don't arrest such powerful people just because you have nothing better to do, 2) they are involved in illegal and harmful affairs for the state like most of the other people that were arrested/dismissed. Do I need to say more than Adel al-Fakeih and the 2009 Jeddah Floods to remove any doubts?
Most importantly, take a look at the reaction of the people. Happiness is an understatement.
But what is most important here are the ongoing reforms, Saudi Arabia Vision 2030 and other promising reforms and steps that cannot be undermined.
Lastly, as I wrote, we will await the verdicts and what will happen but allow me to say that I am sure that they are alright. They are kept in 4-5 star hotels (Hotel Ritz) and those who are not are in house arrest in palaces. Are we going to feel sorry for them when there are people among them who are responsible for 100 + lives lost just in Jeddah. Never.
BTW if it will only become the Sudairi clan I will be happy. You know why? Because the fewer powerful clans the better for the country and people. But trust me, that will not happen.
Bubblegum Crisis
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
- Messages
- 2,612
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
What past ? there was no other major impotence - Syria -.
Which members of the Sudairis were also charged/arrested ? Absolutely nobody - strange no ? -. Ah ! I know, it's all angels.
My poor country...
...
Saif al-Arab
BANNED
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 8,873
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
I am neither naive nor idealistic brother. My sole ideology (not talking about religion here, morals, ethics etc.) is believing in a prosperous, progressive, successful, united and powerful/influential/independent KSA and Arab world. As well as us as a people/nation having cordial ties with our traditional allies, friends and partners and always looking for mutually beneficial relations. That's all.
The Mullah's in Iran, preventing the chaos that erupted in Iraq post 1988, Yemen (Saleh and Houthis ever since the late 1980's), Qatar post-1995 and other issues that I could mention here. Wrong priorities abroad as well that I rather not mention here.
Really? So why is the youngest son of the eldest Sudairi (Abdul Aziz bin Fahd) arrested? Is he not a Sudairi and not one of the most powerful Sudairis? He is. Apparently he even died when resisting arrest as per some unconfirmed rumors.
Brother, are you really denying the content of this thread? Are you denying that most of those on the list have a confirmed track record of corruption, reckless behavior (2009 Jeddah Floods) and neglect? It is an open secret.
Why do you think that most people are rejoicing?
How can cleaning an inefficient system be a bad thing?
Why should I not give King Salman, MbS and the current administration the benefit of the doubt when you and I gave the benefit of the doubt to the King Abdullah administration?
If the current administration is found guilty of similar crimes, I will of course demand their justice too.
You see, I do not care about this or that faction. I care about the well-being of KSA and our people.
I am of the opinion that the fantastic and much-needed reforms that King Salman and MbS have initiated and the Saudi Vision 2030 are necessary at all costs or a very big cost. I also have no doubt that they will succeed because we the people support those reforms and have been yearning for them for years if not decades. 70% of the population is below 30 years.
And also I am in support of more centralized power so various fractions cannot play their own game. If that means that Sudairi's consolidate their power (the King Salman brach hopefully) I am fine with this because the reforms are the most important thing.
Once that is accomplished we can talk about other topics such as politics.
What many fail to understand is that KSA is no longer the same KSA of the past. It is changed forever and this will only continue.
What King Salman and MbS have done within less than 3 years is simply groundbreaking. Nobody would have believe that. They deserve the utmost credit and this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I still remember how people were complaining that King Salman would be another Fahd (conservative). I told them wait and see and here we are.
Frankly speaking I am just waiting and counting down for King Salman to abdicate (in person and before he dies so no coup attempt can take place) and MbS taking the throne and consolidating his power and concentrating 100% on the reforms in KSA and making KSA a better place for everyone.
Last edited:
Bubblegum Crisis
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
- Messages
- 2,612
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
It's just straw. ‘Du menu fretin’. Just the Jerk ‘du village’.
Or did you see me defend these individuals? For that I feel no pity. I applaud even four hands.
This is not the picture they give for 3 days. It's just a catch clan power.
...
Last edited:
The SC
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2012
- Messages
- 32,233
- Reaction score
- 21
- Country
- Location
Even if they were found to be corrupt!? no one should be above the law of the land including influential princes..
friendly_troll96
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 29, 2010
- Messages
- 3,857
- Reaction score
- -10
- Country
- Location
Bubblegum Crisis
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2012
- Messages
- 2,612
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
Have they been arrested as corrupt - Real evidences, now, and not political stratagems of clan war - With manipulation foolish crowds - ?
Have I defended the corrupt ? You read the rest. Where are “all others corrupted” ?
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saudi-arabia-2017-anti-corruption-arrests.527225/page-2#post-10000044
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saudi-arabia-2017-anti-corruption-arrests.527225/page-2#post-10000232
...
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Article
