SAS unit repeatedly killed Afghan detainees, investigation finds.

[KendoKhan]

You are listing only Defense contractor. US is way too big, with way too many company, doing way too many task. This “L” and “Q” are DOE clearance not DoD. Different departments have different designations. Everything comes down to mission requirement. It may take 1 to 2 year for you to get fully vetted and cleared, while Pakistani ex-military get expedited limited clearance with 3 months, because his operational expertise far exceeded yours.

There were Pakistani officers present in Afghanistan in combat operation center. Retired ISI who have trained and performed join operations with US SOF have unrestricted visa access to US. Some are hired by companies to escort VIPs or high net-worth individuals all the way to US.

You're confused, "L" is a DoD clearance level, maybe you don't know about clearance levels, I worked on liaison at a joint base in Germany so I did know quite a bit about this and I'm sorry to say you are wrong about ex ISI agents getting security clearance.

Here is the reason why:

Non-U.S. citizens do not qualify for a security clearance. However, if a non-U.S. citizen requires access to U.S. classified information and meets the requirements of the 32 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 117.10(k), a Limited Access Authorization (LAA) no higher than the Secret level may be issued. An LAA enables a non U.S. citizen to have limited access to classified information, but the LAA is not a national security eligibility.

Access to classified will be limited to a specific program or project and will be cancelled upon the completion of the program or project for which it was approved. Access to classified information outside the scope of the approved LAA shall be considered a compromise of classified information.

Access to classified information provided to the U.S. Government by another government or international organization will not be permitted under an LAA without the written consent of the government of the organization that provided the information.

----
Source:

Security Assurances for Personnel & Facilities

www.dcsa.mil

So as you will see from this document taken directly from the US military dept of security and counter intelligence - non us citizens don't qualify for security clearance and the most they can obtain is "L" level = limited.

"L" and "Q" are not DOE levels as you age stated, they are national security clearance levels- and you would know this if you worked with foreign forces or contractors as most contractors hold a "L" level clearance.

As I told you I have worked with US troops and other NATO nations during my time at Paderborn as a British Army reservist:

We used to have a lot of contractors from US companies working on vehicles and with our ATOs at Monchengladbach and Wulfen. So I kinda have a pretty good idea of how the "circuit" works.

I'm not saying I don't believe you or that ex Pakistan army guys were working the circuit in Afghan or elsewhere, it can happen.

But ISI guys mainly officers do a stint in the IsI but remain badged to their parent brigade / company. So they wouldn't be "ISI" guys to begin with, they would be regular ex Pakistan army guys who did a stint at ISI.

Furthermore I do know that I am right about security clearance for non US citizens and I'd gladly be proven wrong.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I honestly based on three years experience of deploying with and alongside US troops and contractors have never seen or worked with NON US citizens because they usually can't hold the security clearance for the job.

@jhungary have you heard of anything like this?

 

[jhungary]

You're confused, "L" is a DoD clearance level, maybe you don't know about clearance levels, I worked on liaison at a joint base in Germany so I did know quite a bit about this and I'm sorry to say you are wrong about ex ISI agents getting security clearance.

Here is the reason why:

Non-U.S. citizens do not qualify for a security clearance. However, if a non-U.S. citizen requires access to U.S. classified information and meets the requirements of the 32 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 117.10(k), a Limited Access Authorization (LAA) no higher than the Secret level may be issued. An LAA enables a non U.S. citizen to have limited access to classified information, but the LAA is not a national security eligibility.

Access to classified will be limited to a specific program or project and will be cancelled upon the completion of the program or project for which it was approved. Access to classified information outside the scope of the approved LAA shall be considered a compromise of classified information.

Access to classified information provided to the U.S. Government by another government or international organization will not be permitted under an LAA without the written consent of the government of the organization that provided the information.

----
Source:

Security Assurances for Personnel & Facilities

www.dcsa.mil

So as you will see from this document taken directly from the US military dept of security and counter intelligence - non us citizens don't qualify for security clearance and the most they can obtain is "L" level = limited.

"L" and "Q" are not DOE levels as you age stated, they are national security clearance levels- and you would know this if you worked with foreign forces or contractors as most contractors hold a "L" level clearance.

As I told you I have worked with US troops and other NATO nations during my time at Paderborn as a British Army reservist:

View attachment 861173

We used to have a lot of contractors from US companies working on vehicles and with our ATOs at Monchengladbach and Wulfen. So I kinda have a pretty good idea of how the "circuit" works.
View attachment 861176
(my army ID)

I'm not saying I don't believe you or that ex Pakistan army guys were working the circuit in Afghan or elsewhere, it can happen.

But ISI guys mainly officers do a stint in the IsI but remain badged to their parent brigade / company. So they wouldn't be "ISI" guys to begin with, they would be regular ex Pakistan army guys who did a stint at ISI.

Furthermore I do know that I am right about security clearance for non US citizens and I'd gladly be proven wrong.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I honestly based on three years experience of deploying with and alongside US troops and contractors have never seen or worked with NON US citizens because they usually can't hold the security clearance for the job.

@jhungary have you heard of anything like this?

L & Q are not used within DoD framework, we use Secret and Top Secret instead, but as Clearance Level can be granted by different authorisation, someone may be able to use L and Q in lieu of S and TS level and used them within DoD.

Also, as you said, and I have talked to @Goritoes in a previous post, Non-Citizen can only get limited access clearance, which basically give you the most basic level of access to security facilities. Most likely if you access anything of classification with your LAA, you are most likely breaking the law.

And finally, I will probably take down that Army CIC card you upload. Not sure if you do it in the UK, there are some amalgam thing that you can see if that ID Card was real and showing a real card is usually a no-no even with information redacted...

 

[KendoKhan]

L & Q are not used within DoD framework, we use Secret and Top Secret instead, but as Clearance Level can be granted by different authorisation, someone may be able to use L and Q in lieu of S and TS level and used them within DoD.

Also, as you said, and I have talked to @Goritoes in a previous post, Non-Citizen can only get limited access clearance, which basically give you the most basic level of access to security facilities. Most likely if you access anything of classification with your LAA, you are most likely breaking the law.

And finally, I will probably take down that Army CIC card you upload. Not sure if you do it in the UK, there are some amalgam thing that you can see if that ID Card was real and showing a real card is usually a no-no even with information redacted...

Noted many thanks, I've removed my ID card from the post .

 

[Wolfhunter]

That shouldn't be a surprise.

There's corruption and abuse of power in all institutions here. The U.K police aren't called PIGS for no reason...some of the biggest abusers on ego trips who were bullied losers growing up.

Literally my local police station was shutdown due to officers taking bribes from a local drug lord. That's the U.K where we apparently set the standard.

Same with the army there's filth within. What else they have covered up and got away with, we will never know.

Eh up lad, what police station was this lol . Seems a little far fetched, you'd have the daily mail and guardian all over something like this if it were true.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Noted many thanks, I've removed my ID card from the post .

Hope you got your answer. Never heard of L & Q in DoD. Starts from Classified, Secret , Top Secret / Sensitive Compartmented Information. Clearances are granted on case by case basis depending on critical skill requirements. Foreign born get clearance all the time, they always have to renounce dual citizenship and not lie on background investigation.

 

[jhungary]

You are listing only Defense contractor. US is way too big, with way too many company, doing way too many task. This “L” and “Q” are DOE clearance not DoD. Different departments have different designations. Everything comes down to mission requirement. It may take 1 to 2 year for you to get fully vetted and cleared, while Pakistani ex-military get expedited limited clearance with 3 months, because his operational expertise far exceeded yours.

There were Pakistani officers present in Afghanistan in combat operation center. Retired ISI who have trained and performed join operations with US SOF have unrestricted visa access to US. Some are hired by companies to escort VIPs or high net-worth individuals all the way to US.

Back in the days when I was in Afghanistan, we have visiting TCN (Middle Eastern, did not say who he is from) on our TOC, we show them around but we turn off all the stuff that we don't let these people see without clearance and only turning on stuff that we let him see.

A lot of Joint SOF work with USSOCOM, but that does not mean they have security clearance, sure they can come with us on mission, that does not mean we will share intelligence with these people unless we have to.

 

[KendoKhan]

Eh up lad, what police station was this lol . Seems a little far fetched, you'd have the daily mail and guardian all over something like this if it were true.

I'd like to know that too to be fair, I've not read anything like that on misconducts . Maybe Bullshire will know...

Anyway let's get back on topic:

Ben Wallace has been awfully silent on this, my understanding is that MOD have said if allegations are found proven they will open an investigation and publish findings.

Back in the days when I was in Afghanistan, we have visiting TCN (Middle Eastern, did not say who he is from) on our TOC, we show them around but we turn off all the stuff that we don't let these people see without clearance and only turning on stuff that we let him see.

A lot of Joint SOF work with USSOCOM, but that does not mean they have security clearance, sure they can come with us on mission, that does not mean we will share intelligence with these people unless we have to.

Thanks - this was how I understood it worked too and was confused why third country nationals would be given any more than necessary for mission.

I remember when gents from Northrop Grumman UK office came down from Manchester to Chatham, the week they were on site, they had to be escorted despite them holding security clearance exceeding our own lol .

Provost had a field day that week .

 

[R2D2]

Prisoners of War have their rights. However the western countries do not follow them. The abuse of detainees in Baghdad and Guantanamo should be taken up to counter Human Rights propaganda attacks by the West on Muslim and Third World countries.

 

[R2D2]

 

[jhungary]

I'd like to know that too to be fair, I've not read anything like that on misconducts . Maybe Bullshire will know...

Anyway let's get back on topic:

Ben Wallace has been awfully silent on this, my understanding is that MOD have said if allegations are found proven they will open an investigation and publish findings.


Thanks - this was how I understood it worked too and was confused why third country nationals would be given any more than necessary for mission.

I remember when gents from Northrop Grumman UK office came down from Manchester to Chatham, the week they were on site, they had to be escorted despite them holding security clearance exceeding our own lol .

Provost had a field day that week .

Well, we usually give a lot more to those TCN, but not security stuff. I remember the first time I met a TCN working for us and he asked "Can I access **** from the network"......I think we gave it to him....

It's different game if it is not your turf, I had TS/SCI in the US (3rd top clearance in the US), and when I made the only trip to Whitehall to meet some MI6 people, I was given a badge and an escort that follow me even when I was going to the toilet....

But then I know we will be doing the same if them MI-6 folks come down to any of the SCIF in the US.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Back in the days when I was in Afghanistan, we have visiting TCN (Middle Eastern, did not say who he is from) on our TOC, we show them around but we turn off all the stuff that we don't let these people see without clearance and only turning on stuff that we let him see.

A lot of Joint SOF work with USSOCOM, but that does not mean they have security clearance, sure they can come with us on mission, that does not mean we will share intelligence with these people unless we have to.

Correct, that how it is, even in theater. Mission requirement and only necessary stuff. Right now as the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan are coming to an end, Army is reassigning MOSs to Foreign born soldiers from 35P to 35F. They were given access when DoD had a mission requirement. Now they are back to basic Intel analysis job.

 

[R2D2]

They do not learn from past mistakes. Greed of exploiting third world countries and enmity of Muslims.

 

[jhungary]

Correct, that how it is, even in theater. Mission requirement and only necessary stuff. Right now as the missions in Iraq and Afghanistan are coming to an end, Army is reassigning MOSs to Foreign born soldiers from 35P to 35F. They were given access when DoD had a mission requirement. Now they are back to basic Intel analysis job.

Foreign born and non-Citizen is two different category tho. IIRC Foreign born can't get anything over TS, but Foreign National or TCN as I put it would not be able to get anything above Secret. There are also a buddy system for people who work at 35P, foreign born usually paired with a person who have appropriate clearance to work in 35P, that used to be an Okay practice, I don't think they need to do that now.

I don't know if the DoD are going to allow TCN to work within our Security/Intelligence Framework.

 

[KendoKhan]

Well, we usually give a lot more to those TCN, but not security stuff. I remember the first time I met a TCN working for us and he asked "Can I access **** from the network"......I think we gave it to him....

It's different game if it is not your turf, I had TS/SCI in the US (3rd top clearance in the US), and when I made the only trip to Whitehall to meet some MI6 people, I was given a badge and an escort that follow me even when I was going to the toilet....

But then I know we will be doing the same if them MI-6 folks come down to any of the SCIF in the US.

Hahah . I hope you enjoyed the tea there, there is a secret canteen that was used by Winston Churchill during WWII in the basement of Whitehall.

If you ever get the chance to visit again due to work, you have to see it, it's trapped in time .

 

[Great Janjua]

Afghanistan Gov needs to protest such acts of human violation against the perpetrating countries. You cannot just rely on social media rage from Pakistanis alone even in the past when such incidents came to light Afghans kept quiet its time to man up you are a sovereign nation.