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Saddled with Insas Army wants new AK-47s

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Saddled with Insas Army wants new AK-47s

Shishir Arya, TNN 7 September 2009, 12:53am IST
NAGPUR: The indigenous 5.56x45mm Insas (Indian National Small Arms System) rifle has been the standard assault weapon for the Indian Army since the late 1990s. However, the jawans using it in counter-insurgency operations find it Ineffective.
As part of the new Army doctrine, the gun is meant to incapacitate the enemy, rather than kill. Insas has a smaller calibre, which means it has less power. This is because — and it’s the official view — injuring an enemy can lead to enemy soldiers getting engaged in tending the wounded, thus yielding a tactical battlefield advantage.

The technocrats who interacted with soldiers in the forward areas were told that this theory does not work with terrorists who, apart from attacking in small numbers, are never bothered about evacuating their injured. Hence, the soldiers say, they want to shoot to kill, rather than maim.

The soldiers also spoke about practical difficulties in using Insas. It’s accurate but not as rugged as the AK-47 used by terrorists, they say. Also, its sling often snaps while firing, making it fall during manoeuvres. The sling also obstructs the rifle’s sight. But most of all, the size of the sling never took into account the bullet proof jacket worn by jawans. As a result, it falls short and is uncomfortable to hold. This hampers quick reaction. Insas also does not have a rapid fire feature; it shoots only three rounds in a single burst.

‘‘The barrel overheats with continuous firing. The magazine cracks even on falling, which is common during action. Oil spillage while firing is also major trouble,’’ said a source quoting soldiers. ‘‘Zeroing (adjusting the sight for aim) has to be done each time the rifle is opened to clean or for any other reason. Lack of proper zeroing hampers the working of night vision device,’’ said the same source.

The total additional weight — around 40 kg with bulletproof jacket and signalling equipment — that a soldier carries is also a matter of concern, as is the colour of the rifle: they want it in brown which offers better camouflaging. On the positive side, Insas’s transparent magazine helps soldiers keep a count of bullets.

Former director general of infantry, Lt General Shanker Prasad, said Insas is antiquated and the Infantry needs a modern rifle. The Army has repeatedly asked for new assault weapons, but nothing has moved. It’s learnt that forces are now expecting new indigenously developed AK-47 rifle said to be an improvement on the original. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...Army-wants-new-AK-47s/articleshow/4979790.cms

One question; Why Indians couldn't make a Decent Rifle for

their army when India claim to be one of the military power house ?
 
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One question; Why Indians couldn't make a Decent Rifle for

their army when India claim to be one of the military power house ?

Well, We obviously dont have any good indigenous Rifles, but We have licensed production of some of the worlds best Assault rifles , A good example might be Israel Tavour(Zittara) ..
 
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Well, We obviously dont have any good indigenous Rifles, but We have licensed production of some of the worlds best Assault rifles , A good example might be Israel Tavour(Zittara) ..

No; India brought some Tavor assault rifles from Israel.

Not Licensed production;

The Indian government has also purchased a number of Tavor assault rifles, Galil sniper rifles, and night vision equipment from Israeli Military Industries (IMI). In addition, Israeli counter-terrorist training is viewed by both the political and military echelons as having made a significant impact on the effort to curtail terrorist infiltrations along the Jammu-Kashmiri line of control.

Israeli Missile Defence for Delhi!Now the AXIS Between the US, Israel and India Works Excellently Galaxy wide!I will stamp out Mumbai-like terror attacks: Obama Declares! :smitten:
:pakistan::china:
 
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No; India brought some Tavor assault rifles from Israel.

Not Licensed production;

The Indian government has also purchased a number of Tavor assault rifles, Galil sniper rifles, and night vision equipment from Israeli Military Industries (IMI). In addition, Israeli counter-terrorist training is viewed by both the political and military echelons as having made a significant impact on the effort to curtail terrorist infiltrations along the Jammu-Kashmiri line of control.

Israeli Missile Defence for Delhi!Now the AXIS Between the US, Israel and India Works Excellently Galaxy wide!I will stamp out Mumbai-like terror attacks: Obama Declares! :smitten:
:pakistan::china:

The Indian version of Micro-Tavor, called Zittara, is designed by the India's Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) for use by India's special operations units. Zittara differs from the Israeli Micro-Tavor by allowing the use of three different configurations and ammunition types for different situations - a carbine (firing 5.56x30 ammunition), an assault rifle (firing 5.56x45mm) and submachine-gun firing 9x19mm rounds with accuracy of up to 200 meters. These conversions can be performed in the field with standard tools.
Micro Tavor Lightweight Assault Rifle

INDIA HAS ALSO BOUGHT MORE THAN 3000 OF SUCH ASSAULT RIFLES FROM ISRAEL
 
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The Indian version of Micro-Tavor, called Zittara, is designed by the India's Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) for use by India's special operations units. Zittara differs from the Israeli Micro-Tavor by allowing the use of three different configurations and ammunition types for different situations - a carbine (firing 5.56x30 ammunition), an assault rifle (firing 5.56x45mm) and submachine-gun firing 9x19mm rounds with accuracy of up to 200 meters. These conversions can be performed in the field with standard tools.
Micro Tavor Lightweight Assault Rifle

INDIA HAS ALSO BOUGHT MORE THAN 3000 OF SUCH ASSAULT RIFLES FROM ISRAEL

Dear; There are different between design and the ability to produce.

The link you provided mention nothing about being produce in India.

Even you can provide further proof, it will only be a limited amount

for your special force. :smitten::pakistan::china:
 
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Dear; There are different between design and the ability to produce.

The link you provided mention nothing about being produce in India.

Even you can provide further proof, it will only be a limited amount

for your special force. :smitten::pakistan::china:


Iam helpless when you yourself are not willing to let off your stand.. I guess u must read the link, Zittara is an Indian Name for the Micro Tavour Designed and produced In India .... Zittara is For The F-INSAS Program...
 
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Iam helpless when you yourself are not willing to let off your stand.. I guess u must read the link, Zittara is an Indian Name for the Micro Tavour Designed and produced In India .... Zittara is For The F-INSAS Program...

Please tell me where in the article you provided mention anything

Designed and Produced India;


Micro Tavor (MTAR 21) is based on the IWI Tavor Assault Rifle, yet this small weapon is tailored for the Special Forces market. Its compact dimensions make this weapon a perfect match for drivers and tank crews. MTAR was developed in close cooperation with special operations units and is tailored to their specific requirements and needs.
With length of only 59 cm MTAR21 is considered to be the shortest 5.56mm weapon in the market yet its barrel is only five centimeter short of the assault rifle version, thus offering accurate fire at contingencies. Utilizing a conversion kit, MTAR 21 can be turned into a 9mm sub-machinegun loaded with 25 rounds magazines. This capability has significant logistical, training and operational advantages for special operations and SWAT units, which usually maintain two dedicated weapons for short and medium range operations.


The Indian version of Micro-Tavor, called Zittara, is designed by the India's Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) for use by India's special operations units. Zittara differs from the Israeli Micro-Tavor by allowing the use of three different configurations and ammunition types for different situations - a carbine (firing 5.56x30 ammunition), an assault rifle (firing 5.56x45mm) and submachine-gun firing 9x19mm rounds with accuracy of up to 200 meters. These conversions can be performed in the field with standard tools.

Standard Tavor accessories are also applicable for the MTAR platform. However, this weapon has built-in Mil-Std 1913 (Picatinny) accessory mounting rails without the need for bulky adapters. Micro Tavor uses an integral silencer for the 9mm barrel, which, unlike add-on silencers, does not add to the weapon's length.

:smitten::pakistan::china:
 
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Please tell me where in the article you provided mention anything

Designed and Produced India;


Micro Tavor (MTAR 21) is based on the IWI Tavor Assault Rifle, yet this small weapon is tailored for the Special Forces market. Its compact dimensions make this weapon a perfect match for drivers and tank crews. MTAR was developed in close cooperation with special operations units and is tailored to their specific requirements and needs.
With length of only 59 cm MTAR21 is considered to be the shortest 5.56mm weapon in the market yet its barrel is only five centimeter short of the assault rifle version, thus offering accurate fire at contingencies. Utilizing a conversion kit, MTAR 21 can be turned into a 9mm sub-machinegun loaded with 25 rounds magazines. This capability has significant logistical, training and operational advantages for special operations and SWAT units, which usually maintain two dedicated weapons for short and medium range operations.


The Indian version of Micro-Tavor, called Zittara, is designed by the India's Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) for use by India's special operations units. Zittara differs from the Israeli Micro-Tavor by allowing the use of three different configurations and ammunition types for different situations - a carbine (firing 5.56x30 ammunition), an assault rifle (firing 5.56x45mm) and submachine-gun firing 9x19mm rounds with accuracy of up to 200 meters. These conversions can be performed in the field with standard tools.

Standard Tavor accessories are also applicable for the MTAR platform. However, this weapon has built-in Mil-Std 1913 (Picatinny) accessory mounting rails without the need for bulky adapters. Micro Tavor uses an integral silencer for the 9mm barrel, which, unlike add-on silencers, does not add to the weapon's length.

:smitten::pakistan::china:

So you come to say That, we design them , then draw them and Frame that drawing and Hang it somewhere?

If OFB is designing it, its for production... and If you seem to say that we are modifying the Rifles bought from Israel, Its wrong, Its against the international laws to modify a foreign weapon
 
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Join; Let be honest with yourself, if Tavor rifles were produce in India, I don't

think its that hard to find another source in the net to support your claim.

Let me tell you there are a lot cases that weapons being designed but could not

have the capability to produce or sometimes the other way around.

:smitten::pakistan::china:
 
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Join; Let be honest with yourself, if Tavor rifles were produce in India, I don't

think its that hard to find another source in the net to support your claim.

Let me tell you there are a lot cases that weapons being designed but could not

have the capability to produce or sometimes the other way around.

:smitten::pakistan::china:

Iam sorry sir, But I CAN only give u that link, because This rifle is not a very hyped topic, so Only Indian sources ARE available other than that link WHICH i GAVE... And Moreover, This is just a small part of the Major F-INSAS program where India has already Invested money In. I have a video for you, but If you deny even this, then Iam sorry sir, I loose obviously.

2ADvl2WJb8g[/media] - DDRO develops Human Soldier Weapon System.
 
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Iam sorry sir, But I CAN only give u that link, because This rifle is not a very hyped topic, so Only Indian sources ARE available other than that link WHICH i GAVE... And Moreover, This is just a small part of the Major F-INSAS program where India has already Invested money In. I have a video for you, but If you deny even this, then Iam sorry sir, I loose obviously.

2ADvl2WJb8g[/media] - DDRO develops Human Soldier Weapon System.

Ok; I will give you the benefit of the doubt. No point for further

dicussion of Tavor.

Lets get back to the topic; This news proved my point India was not

able to produce a decent rifle for her army, since your army standard

Insas rifle was prove to be ineffected.

I was wondering why India claiming moon trip in 2015,

Why a big country like India couldn't produce her own simple decent

rifle, after all its not some kind of Rockets Science ?:smitten:

:pakistan::china:
 
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Ok; I will give you the benefit of the doubt. No point for further

dicussion of Tavor.

Lets get back to the topic; This news proved my point India was not

able to produce a decent rifle for her army, since your army standard

Insas rifle was prove to be ineffected.

I was wondering why India claiming moon trip in 2015,

Why a big country like India couldn't produce her own simple decent

rifle, after all its not some kind of Rockets Science ?:smitten:

:pakistan::china:

Experiance matters sir, We have experiance in launching rockets, making huge ballestic missiles.. but No decent Rifles.. Yes, Its indeed not rocket science... But as of now we have no indigenous rifles being made in India..
 
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Ok; I will give you the benefit of the doubt. No point for further

dicussion of Tavor.

Lets get back to the topic; This news proved my point India was not

able to produce a decent rifle for her army, since your army standard

Insas rifle was prove to be ineffected.

I was wondering why India claiming moon trip in 2015,

Why a big country like India couldn't produce her own simple decent

rifle, after all its not some kind of Rockets Science ?:smitten:

:pakistan::china:

What ever you are saying is partially correct and partially wrong on the grounds that INSAS was having a lot of trouble in its initial days but that was fixed.

The INSAS saw combat during the 1999 Kargil conflict with Pakistan. According to the Times of India, the rifle encountered some reliability problems in the very cold climate in which that conflict took place. Due to the cold weather, the rifle would jam occasionally and the polymer magazines would crack.[3] There were also cases where the rifle would fire on full automatic, while in three-round burst fire mode[3]. According to the manufacturers, these problems have been fixed.

After King Gyanendra seized power, relations between India and Nepal cooled, with India refusing to grant military aid. There were reports that the rifle malfunctioned in a gunbattle with Maoist insurgents, leading to many casualties. This was refuted by the Indian embassy in Nepal, trials conducted before the Nepalese Army showed that the rifle was satisfactory and that the malfunctions had been due to poor handling and improper cleaning of the rifle by Nepalese soldiers. These drawbacks were fixed after the Kargil Conflict in 1999.
 
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Experiance matters sir, We have experiance in launching rockets, making huge ballestic missiles.. but No decent Rifles.. Yes, Its indeed not rocket science... But as of now we have no indigenous rifles being made in India..

No; Thats not a good excuse;

India started the rifle project way before rockets or ballestic missiles.

And don't tell me India need 50 years of experience to make your

own rifle.

The Indian armed forces had been equipped with an unlicensed reverse-engineered copy of the famous Belgian FN FAL rifle since the 1950s. This copy is considered to be a distinct weapon (although certainly not an original design), since its parts cannot be interchanged with either the metric or inch-pattern versions of the FAL.[1]With the 7.62 mm self-loading rifle becoming obsolete in the 1980s, India began to develop the INSAS, incorporating features from several contemporary rifle designs. Although largely based on the ever-popular AK-47, the INSAS has a number of differences, making it a unique weapon. It has features borrowed from the FN FNC, the AK-74, the IMI Galil and the G3.

INSAS rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :smitten:

:pakistan::china:
 
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OH GOOOOOOOOD, HOW COULD I FORGET OUR MSMC RIFLE...

4466e99e7f3f740398c790d9336b2e06.jpg


 

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