SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[SQ8]

@Oscar I am unable to see my homepage.. It gives an error

'You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action.'

Am I banned?

upgrades in progress. Please be patient as bugs will be encountered while we update the forum.

 

[monitor]

 

[monitor]

Just how good is China's new 'stealth' fighter?
Editor's note: Reuben F. Johnson is a correspondent for IHS Jane's Defence Weekly, a publication devoted to defense and security intelligence and analysis. The views expressed are his own.

Zhuhai, Guangdong Province (CNN) -- Zhuhai's Air Show has always been a venue for surprises, usually first-time showings of advanced Chinese military hardware.

China's pathologically secretive defense industry normally shows nothing official of its weapons programs to anyone, which makes the biennial Zhuhai expo the only chance to see what its weapons makers have been up to.

Much has been written in the past few years about China's defense sector developing increasingly more capable weapons systems that approach the capability of their U.S. and European analogues.

Some Chinese weapons, such as a full range of anti-ship and air-to-surface missiles, seem to show that its military -- the People's Liberation Army (PLA) -- is equipped to challenge U.S. Navy carrier battle groups and potentially deny the U.S. the ability to operate in certain areas of the Pacific. But questions remain about how battle-ready the PLA is and whether it can function in a modern, network-centric warfare environment.

Battlefield autonomy
Today's battlefield operates on the premise that autonomy should be pushed down to the lowest level -- even down to the man in the field -- because time is of the essence. Getting inside of the enemy's "decision loop" is the key to victory. But, giving individual units the ability to make their own tactical decisions without their orders being delivered from several layers up the chain of command is an anathema to the "control uber alles" mentality of the Chinese leadership.

In terms of new weapons, the number one attraction at Zhuhai this year was the new Shenyang FC-31 fighter. It has generated a good deal of excitement as it's the first time a new Chinese military aircraft has been unveiled while still in the early stages of development -- we usually have to wait until after they start serving in the PLA's air force.
The FC-31 is designed to look like a stealth fighter aircraft in the class of the American Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. It is also the second, but smaller, stealth-type design to be developed by China. The FC-31's "Big Brother," the Chengdu J-20, first flew in January 2011 but has been shrouded in secrecy ever since.

The FC-31 "looks" stealthy and its shape mimics that of the F-35 in some respects. But it is impossible to tell just how successful the Shenyang design team has been in developing an aircraft with a low radar cross section without knowing the materials used, the placement of the engines inside the aircraft, and how well the heat signature from the engines has been suppressed by the design of the exhaust nozzle section.

Flawed design?
Like other PLAAF fighter aircraft, the FC-31 is powered by Russian-made jet engines, in this case two Klimov RD-93 models, which are a specialized variant of the same engine that powers the famous Mikoyan "MiG-29." There have been rumors that a team of renegade designers from the Mikoyan bureau in Moscow assisted Shenyang in the development of the aircraft, but a senior MiG official stated "no, as far as I know they [the Chinese] completed this design themselves, and they seem to have done a good job on their own."

The MiG official may be correct. An aircraft of this type designed with Russian assistance would probably perform better.
The FC-31's flight routine shows that it "bleeds" too much energy -- so when it enters into a turn it begins to lose altitude. Even during straight and level flight the pilot has to engage the engine's afterburners in order to keep the aircraft from sinking to a lower altitude. These are defects in the aircraft's aerodynamic design that a Russian design team would not have made.

Western aerospace analysts point out that the FC-31 flown at Zhuhai is a "clean" jet in that it is not armed, which means that an aircraft configured for a real mission and fitted with weapons would be even heavier and would perform even worse.
Timing a coincidence?
So, why has the PLAAF chosen to exhibit an aircraft that is either overweight, underpowered or both?
It could be an oblique signal to Washington timed to coincide with President Barack Obama's visit to Beijing for the APEC summit. The underlying message: "China is stronger than you think."

This would not be the first such example of China trying to use its defense industry to flex its muscles. In January 2011, when the J-20 first flew, then-U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates was in Beijing for an official visit. His read was that the timing of the two events was in no way coincidental.
Unfortunately for the PLA, the gesture falls flat.

Many would have been more impressed by the FC-31 in photos posted on Chinese websites than after seeing it actually fly at the air show.
Looks can be deceiving, as they say.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Egypt ?

 

[zhang5521]

 

[aliyusuf]

Can anyone tell me what fighters and interceptors PAF currently has and how many? Sorry for being a noob, I'm just curious

I have hashed up something in the link below based on how many, of what is currently operational, was inducted and (based on my internet findings and news releases) what has been lost due to attrition. It is still a guestimate at best.

Pakistan Air Force Current Fighter Fleet | aliyusufs

 

[Green Arrow]

Good news. It will boost our defence industry

 

[Viper0011.]

I can assure the Indians want to be left alone to concentrate on growinn g their large economy and realising their potential to be a global industrial giant.

The Indians have more to lose from conflict than

You are making some seriously dangerous assumptions Pal. Modi isn't trying to get into a Nuclear war. He's preparing the IAF and supportive IA and IN regiments of a temporary, small scale conflict which may leave long term impotence in the other country's air defense, Naval and other capabilities.
A large air strike by SU-30's, Jag's and supportive MIG-21's (let alone Mirages and all), can leave serious damage to your assets. If you down 100 jets out of 200 invading, so what??? How many would you lose and can you sustain the loss of -16's in numbers as its your only primary BVR jet.....add losses on the ground to this. One air strike or a few small conflicts don't call out for a Nuke war. Nor will the world allow for it. There is wish to live in Pakistan as well. Its not India where everyone wants to live. So small conflicts won't lead to a Nuke war as many here think.
So back to the conventional setup....making these dangerous assumptions like the above is silly. What you need is, more jets and stronger Navy. Support your gov't as they are bringing a lot of investment, you'll start to see results in the next three years. Additional 4-5 billion in the next 3-4 years (if the system continues to make progress), will NOT be an issue. PAF can go shopping and get the advanced twin turbines. I think they've realized the need before any Stealthy platform can ever be acquired. Get your self prepared well for small conflicts, instead of making imaginary statements and assumptions that could become huge miscalculations (like the mistakes and assumptions already made by the PAF planning division since 1990's). No more room exists for these serious mistakes for future planning.

 

[zaid butt]

if we now order them then we will get them in near 2018 i guess and with TOT it will be beyond almost 2022

 

[The SC]

IMO its good for Pakistan to join FC31 program. In future Pakistan have only option to buy 5th gen is from CHINA. If Pakistan join the program btw, it will give Pakistan Airforce good opportunity to learn how to make, build, maintain such aircrafts. Pakistan will definitely MUST join FC31 program but in PAF inventory, FC31 take 2022 to join officially before its in development phase and after China's AF order will be the first priority for China. JF is still shit nothing else more... we are just glorify JF17 is like F22 on ground its just a 3 generation aircraft and if you ask any Pakistan airforce pilot or official, they will just call JF17 "New aircraft to replace old fleet" thats it....

JF-17 is a third generation fighter in the Chinese system, in the Western system it is a 4th generation fighter, and by all accounts, it is said to be an overall potent multirole light fighter jet. Adding an AESA radar and some other tweaks will make it at least a 4+ generation, which is not bad at all considering the price and the mission.

 

[pigtaker]

Jordan, we have report here.

 

[LonE_WolF]

Jordan, we have report here.

kindly share that report here

 

[pigtaker]

kindly share that report here

it just mentioned in the report that jordan has interesting in it, not too much information. this happened in Zhuhai show.

 

[PakEye]

Maybe IRAQ, already selected Mushaaq Aircrafts.

 

[araz]

It is so exciting news for Pakistan and China.

Any news of Prototype II development of J-31, when it will come out.

PAF will get 30 jets in 2020, best induction time to rule over skies.

Awesome J-31 Stealth Fighter :

I would wait a bit more till we have more credible news coming out. For many reasons F31 seems to be tbe .ost logical next purchase. However PAF has its hands full with absorbing the knowledge gained from JFT. Does it have the finances, manpower and indeed the expertise to contribute to the project? If the answer is No which unfortunately at this point seems to be the case the the news has to be premature if not incorrect.
So what seems to be going on?To my mind the following come to mind.
1. PAF genuinely like the fighter and want to incorporate some aspects of it in JFT to enhance its prospects and develop it. As an offshoot they will agree to buy it when it meets their requirements. This would mean further enhancements of JFT with incorporation of more technologies and commonality of equipment leading to reduction of price and involvement of local industry enhanced production of other technologies such as composites and others.
2. The news has been intentionally floated to suit CATIC to hype up the plane and find local / international partners for further growth and development.
3. It will put the IAF in further disarray as the Rafale contract no longer seems worth the 20 billion that you wanted to pay for it.The soviet 5th generation f8ghter would need some time to mature and therefore they will not have much options but to conceed .superiority or look at even more expensive options from else where