SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

One school of thought puts Chinese J-35 / FC-31

as an option ; Other one puts its trust behind Turkish MMU / TFX

 

[GiantPanda]

One school of thought puts Chinese J-35 / FC-31

as an option ; Other one puts its trust behind Turkish MMU / TFX

The FC-31 is designed for export and has been flying for a decade with a sanction proof engine (WS-13E) and has a set path to an advance engine (WS-19) in the future.

TFX has not flown yet and when it does it will be using an engine (F100) that is a major sanction risk. It will be no different than the T129.

So realistically not only does Pakistan need to wait until the TFX flies but also an indigenous Turkish engine to be developed, tested and productionized before it can be a viable option.

Meanwhile, the FC-31 is here and now and there is a distinct possibility that it would already be sold in the near future if rumors of Egypt and Saudi Arabia are correct.

 

[Deino]

Egypt, SAC, FC-31 procurement and TOT deal​

https://www.tacticalreport.com/news/article/61145-egypt-sac-fc-31-procurement-and-tot-deal

Thsi report is plain fake, wrong and nothin g but a lie … the next day after this BS they reported, Egypt would also negotiate a huge purchase of XAC JH-7 fighter bombers.

Forget this site!!

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi
in my opinion until IAF acquire any 5th generation until then PAF will wait & see, history of China exporting fighter
jets to other countries road goes through Pakistan
why pakistan coz it’s airforce always give feed back to China whatever they got from western sources another
way is if PAF using that particular jet it’s a force multiplier for China to export it for customers with much confidence
and way of telling them or showing them beside us another airforce is also involved
so yea whatever the circumstances at that time once IAF have it Pakistan will go for J31/35 im not speculating about J20 no chance & can’t be affordable for PAF
TWIN ENGINE J31/35 best bet until unless Turkish can offer
something at that time as Pakistan always short of money
best bet is China
thank you

 

[araz]

Hi
in my opinion until IAF acquire any 5th generation until then PAF will wait & see, history of China exporting fighter
jets to other countries road goes through Pakistan
why pakistan coz it’s airforce always give feed back to China whatever they got from western sources another
way is if PAF using that particular jet it’s a force multiplier for China to export it for customers with much confidence
and way of telling them or showing them beside us another airforce is also involved
so yea whatever the circumstances at that time once IAF have it Pakistan will go for J31/35 im not speculating about J20 no chance & can’t be affordable for PAF
TWIN ENGINE J31/35 best bet until unless Turkish can offer
something at that time as Pakistan always short of money
best bet is China
thank you

PAF will not buy J31 till:
A. The PLAAF/PLAN buy them.
B. Some other nation goes ahead and buys it.
5th generation technology is very complex and initial research outlay is huge. The teething troubles are also likely to be more and require expensive fixes. If PLAAF/PLAN/Others buy it, the cost outlays become divided and fixes have already been achieved lowering costs and outlays.
If PAF goes for TFX, the TUAF will bear some of the costs of these developments/fixes. As many posters have pointed out engine remains a bug bear for the TFX. However from the work share POV, it remains a much better option. The Chinese at this stage of their development will not share technology but rather sell products to PAF which increases cost of maintenance. Depot level maintenance/overhauling facilities will be provided if the order is large enough. However, the Chinese are very likely to become protective of their technology as it advances and might not let PAF service key components for fear of information leaking out.
A

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

PAF will not buy J31 till:
A. The PLAAF/PLAN buy them.
B. Some other nation goes ahead and buys it.

You forgot the most important point:
PAF will not buy J31 until:
A: India buys a 5th gen fighter


The J-10Cs are also inducted in response to Rafales. Pakistan simply has no money for such ridiculously expensive stuff until we are forced to buy it to keep minimum deterrence level. However, sooner or later india will get 5th gen fighters maybe by end of this decade or next. Too early to say anything as of now.

 

[Readerdefence]

PAF will not buy J31 till:
A. The PLAAF/PLAN buy them.
B. Some other nation goes ahead and buys it.
5th generation technology is very complex and initial research outlay is huge. The teething troubles are also likely to be more and require expensive fixes. If PLAAF/PLAN/Others buy it, the cost outlays become divided and fixes have already been achieved lowering costs and outlays.
If PAF goes for TFX, the TUAF will bear some of the costs of these developments/fixes. As many posters have pointed out engine remains a bug bear for the TFX. However from the work share POV, it remains a much better option. The Chinese at this stage of their development will not share technology but rather sell products to PAF which increases cost of maintenance. Depot level maintenance/overhauling facilities will be provided if the order is large enough. However, the Chinese are very likely to become protective of their technology as it advances and might not let PAF service key components for fear of information leaking out.
A

Hi araz
thanks for your detailed reply, if I may continue with this reply with couple of points
1 PAF or GOP is not buying anything before the show of IAF
hand & im optimistic at the end USA will make them buy F35 too , as they are in Quad alliance so until then PAF can restrain themselves
2 As you know better then my knowledge GoP always short of funds so their one & only hope is china of course gop not getting J20 so only option 31/35 whatever why I’m insisting is another 3/4 years for Chinese Newley built carrier to be operational by that time J35 will be inline or will be prioritised by China on top of J31
3 off the shelf my friend they not even got J10 technology transfer which been with China with so many years and lots of fighters already in the air how come a 5th generation technology transfer no way no chance
4 About getting after someone else this can be debated as you know who that someone can be though those are also like our airforce in love with western technology till the end
until no other way but even before them I’m sure Chinese want their machine to be in PAF hands to make it credible to get a Nod form other wealthy countries only those are Middle Eastern
5 About Turkish options I don’t have a problem with their product but their pocket is not too deep to take on our burden and supply at least a squad on long term loan sharing technology how my friend until gop start putting money against their project but I think ATAK saga is enough for paksitani problems until turks got engine technology fully in house
thank you

 

[credence]

J-35

 

[LKJ86]

J-35

CG

 

[Bilal9]

this will be best possible option for us in future , but i think we will see what happen after Jf-17 block 3 start producing

Ideal future scenario for Pakistan.

JF-17 Block 3 will be "quantity" fighter fielded in numbers strength.

FC-31 will be "quality" fighter for frontline strategic use. Bangladesh will be well advised to consider this option.

Both will have their mission applications and uses.

 

[GiantPanda]

Ideal future scenario for Pakistan.

JF-17 Block 3 will be "quantity" fighter fielded in numbers strength.

FC-31 will be "quality" fighter for frontline strategic use. Bangladesh will be well advised to consider this option.

Both will have their mission applications and uses.

Yes, both JF-17 and FC-31 were created as export products by AVIC based on the same medium class range of engines.

So a fleet of JF-17s and FC-31s centered around the WS-13 engine with a future upgrade to WS-19 is a pretty rational development path.

 

[credence]

 

[Deino]

J-35View attachment 908236

Here's the full one!

 

[Ali_Baba]

Here's the full one!

View attachment 908266

It does look better and the "lines" flow more naturally than the F-35. Suprised they decided to go for/keep the single piece canopy for naval operations, rather than adopt a 2 piece canopy which is the trend these days.

Yes, both JF-17 and FC-31 were created as export products by AVIC based on the same medium class range of engines.

So a fleet of JF-17s and FC-31s centered around the WS-13 engine with a future upgrade to WS-19 is a pretty rational development path.

I dont see PAF re-engining to the WS-13 - there is no value unless it offers a sufficent military advantage to make it worthwhile relative to the cost of adopting a new engine. Maybe not even WS-19. Maintenance/support costs a big factor for the PAF and the luxury of changing to an engine that gives you the same performance makes no economic sense.

 

[GiantPanda]

It does look better and the "lines" flow more naturally than the F-35. Suprised they decided to go for/keep the single piece canopy for naval operations, rather than adopt a 2 piece canopy which is the trend these days.



I dont see PAF re-engining to the WS-13 - there is no value unless it offers a sufficent military advantage to make it worthwhile relative to the cost of adopting a new engine. Maybe not even WS-19. Maintenance/support costs a big factor for the PAF and the luxury of changing to an engine that gives you the same performance makes no economic sense.

Agree. But the performance won't be the same. Especially with WS-19.

In this case, Bilal was talking about Bangladesh or other new users.