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SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate
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Trailer23
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China's second fifth-generation engine turbofan 19 debut or equipped with FC-31 fighter
November 5, 2018, 13:53
The picture shows the turbofan 19 engine
Recently, according to media reports, China's second five-generation engine was unveiled, but this time it is not a turbofan 15, but a turbofan-19 engine codenamed "Huangshan." For this mysterious engine of this exposure, some experts said that this engine will be used as the power of the 歼31. Since then, the 歼31 will usher in a new life. After learning the truth, the Chinese people are completely boiling.
It is reported that at present, the company is developing two engine projects at the same time, one is the domestically produced turbofan-13 turbofan engine developed on the Russian RD-93 turbofan engine, and the other is the new generation of turbofan in China. Engine - turbofan 19 engine. From the current information on all exposures, the R&D reference target for the turbofan-19 engine should be the US F-414 engine.
The picture shows the F-414 engine
The US F-414 engine is a turbofan engine developed by General Electric Company. It is widely equipped on the Super Hornet series carrier-based aircraft, and its comprehensive performance is quite excellent. The turbofan 19 engine is likely to use the same design as the F-414 with a three-stage fan and a single-stage high-pressure turbine. It is worth mentioning that the Russian RD-93 engine used a four-stage fan design, resulting in an overly complex overall engine design, difficult internal layout, and excessive engine weight.
The turbofan-19 engine abandoned this design and switched to a three-stage fan, making the engine structure much simpler. And there is news that the engine may also adopt the thrust vector design. If the turbofan-19 can basically reach the goal of the initial development, the turbofan 19 will be a very good medium-pushing engine, which will undoubtedly be equipped. On the 歼-31 stealth fighter, the overall combat performance of the 歼-31 stealth fighter is not satisfactory. This is because it is equipped with the Russian RD-93 turbofan engine, the thrust is low, and the engine core technology is relatively backward.
The 歼-31 originally had a relatively good stealth design, but it was because of a heart disease that it could not fully exploit its full combat potential. The solution is of course to equip a new engine. If equipped with a turbofan-13, it is expected that the thrust-to-weight ratio of the turbofan 13 is 9 and the thrust is about 10 tons. The performance improvement of the 歼-31 is not obvious, and the push-to-weight ratio of the turbofan 19 is expected to reach 11 The thrust is about 11 tons, and the two turbofans 19 can provide about 22 tons of thrust for the 歼-31.
Taking the F-35 stealth fighter as an example, the thrust of a single engine of the F-35 stealth fighter reached 21 tons of thrust, making the maximum takeoff weight of the F-35 stealth fighter reach 33 tons, while the two turbofans 19 were equipped. The take-off weight of the -31 stealth fighter is almost 35 tons. If the basic design of the 歼-31 is amplified and improved, it means that the 歼-31's voyage and the carrying capacity can be improved. The comprehensive combat performance is naturally much better than the current 歼-31, so the Chinese are very much looking forward to the arrival of the turbofan 19.
(Author's signature: Zhuge Xiaoche)
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China's FC-31 engine may have been ready to start matching with the aircraft
November 5th, 2018, 15:16
Just a few moments ago, CCTV announced the last of the Air Force's 20 plans, the H20 stealth strategic bomber. The Chinese Air Force's 20 plans, including helicopters, heavy-duty stealth fighters and bombers, are about to be completed. Now, the most important thing for Chinese military fans to remember is when we can have our fifth-generation stealth carrier-based fighter.
At present, there are only two fighters in China that match the ship, one is the 歼-20 heavy-duty stealth fighter that the Air Force is currently equipped, and the other is the FC-31 eagle fighter designed and produced by Shenyang Aircraft Manufacturing. The J-20 fighter is difficult to use as a carrier aircraft for the Navy for the following reasons:
First of all, the 歼-20 as a heavy-duty stealth fighter, although in line with the mainstream thinking of the current heavy-duty aircraft, but as a carrier-based aircraft, its size is too large. The 歼-20 adopts a delta wing with a large sweep angle. The wing on the upper ship is difficult to fold, and its own large size, the same hangar capacity may be only about half of 歼15.
Secondly, the 歼-20 was designed to meet the squad attack of the Air Force's long-range sprinter. Its weapon mounting capability and subsequent upgrade capability have been greatly affected, and it may be difficult to meet the operational requirements of the carrier aircraft.
Finally, the production speed of the J-20 is still unable to meet the Chinese Air Force, and for a long time it was unable to balance the Navy.
In contrast, Shen Fei's other FC-31 Eagle Fighter has a number of advantages.
Shen Fei has a unique advantage in the production of carrier aircraft and HNA fighters. The FC-31 is small in size and has the potential to be converted into a carrier aircraft. Although the design and construction of the FC-31 Eagle Fighter medium-sized aircraft has been criticized by many people, from the state of the improved FC-31 fighter, its overall size has been increased, and the overall aerodynamic construction of the aircraft has been improved. , indicating that its upgrade potential is very huge.
For now, one of the biggest reasons why the FC-31 Eagle Fighter cannot be boarded is that China does not have a suitable engine.The FC-31 Hawker prototype uses two RD-93 engines produced in Russia. This engine is the engine of the famous "Airport Defender" MiG-29. It may be more than enough for the FC-31 to use this engine as a medium-sized foreign trade stealth fighter from the beginning, but it is not enough for the ship to become a carrier aircraft. If the turbofan-19 new mid-push is being successfully deployed, the probability of the FC-31 on board will increase greatly. Just recently, Sun Fei’s academician Sun Cong and Wang Yongqing’s chief engineer went to China Aviation to send Guiyang to conduct research on the development of a certain type of engine. According to the news, the model has begun to match the aircraft and the engine, which is likely to indicate that the development of the turbofan-19 new mid-push is nearing completion.
Whether it is the FC-31 Eagle or the 歼-20 Veyron, these two stealth fighters will one day compete on the same stage, and strive to become China's first stealth carrier-based fighter. In the air force's confrontation, the FC-31 eagle is purely powerless, but this eagle has never given up the dream of fighting the sea. I believe that in the future, this is the Chinese sea eagle, and will eventually fly!
(Author's signature: sharp edge / AL)
China's second fifth-generation engine turbofan 19 debut or equipped with FC-31 fighter
November 5, 2018, 13:53
The picture shows the turbofan 19 engine
Recently, according to media reports, China's second five-generation engine was unveiled, but this time it is not a turbofan 15, but a turbofan-19 engine codenamed "Huangshan." For this mysterious engine of this exposure, some experts said that this engine will be used as the power of the 歼31. Since then, the 歼31 will usher in a new life. After learning the truth, the Chinese people are completely boiling.
It is reported that at present, the company is developing two engine projects at the same time, one is the domestically produced turbofan-13 turbofan engine developed on the Russian RD-93 turbofan engine, and the other is the new generation of turbofan in China. Engine - turbofan 19 engine. From the current information on all exposures, the R&D reference target for the turbofan-19 engine should be the US F-414 engine.
The picture shows the F-414 engine
The US F-414 engine is a turbofan engine developed by General Electric Company. It is widely equipped on the Super Hornet series carrier-based aircraft, and its comprehensive performance is quite excellent. The turbofan 19 engine is likely to use the same design as the F-414 with a three-stage fan and a single-stage high-pressure turbine. It is worth mentioning that the Russian RD-93 engine used a four-stage fan design, resulting in an overly complex overall engine design, difficult internal layout, and excessive engine weight.
The turbofan-19 engine abandoned this design and switched to a three-stage fan, making the engine structure much simpler. And there is news that the engine may also adopt the thrust vector design. If the turbofan-19 can basically reach the goal of the initial development, the turbofan 19 will be a very good medium-pushing engine, which will undoubtedly be equipped. On the 歼-31 stealth fighter, the overall combat performance of the 歼-31 stealth fighter is not satisfactory. This is because it is equipped with the Russian RD-93 turbofan engine, the thrust is low, and the engine core technology is relatively backward.
The 歼-31 originally had a relatively good stealth design, but it was because of a heart disease that it could not fully exploit its full combat potential. The solution is of course to equip a new engine. If equipped with a turbofan-13, it is expected that the thrust-to-weight ratio of the turbofan 13 is 9 and the thrust is about 10 tons. The performance improvement of the 歼-31 is not obvious, and the push-to-weight ratio of the turbofan 19 is expected to reach 11 The thrust is about 11 tons, and the two turbofans 19 can provide about 22 tons of thrust for the 歼-31.
Taking the F-35 stealth fighter as an example, the thrust of a single engine of the F-35 stealth fighter reached 21 tons of thrust, making the maximum takeoff weight of the F-35 stealth fighter reach 33 tons, while the two turbofans 19 were equipped. The take-off weight of the -31 stealth fighter is almost 35 tons. If the basic design of the 歼-31 is amplified and improved, it means that the 歼-31's voyage and the carrying capacity can be improved. The comprehensive combat performance is naturally much better than the current 歼-31, so the Chinese are very much looking forward to the arrival of the turbofan 19.
(Author's signature: Zhuge Xiaoche)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
China's FC-31 engine may have been ready to start matching with the aircraft
November 5th, 2018, 15:16
Just a few moments ago, CCTV announced the last of the Air Force's 20 plans, the H20 stealth strategic bomber. The Chinese Air Force's 20 plans, including helicopters, heavy-duty stealth fighters and bombers, are about to be completed. Now, the most important thing for Chinese military fans to remember is when we can have our fifth-generation stealth carrier-based fighter.
At present, there are only two fighters in China that match the ship, one is the 歼-20 heavy-duty stealth fighter that the Air Force is currently equipped, and the other is the FC-31 eagle fighter designed and produced by Shenyang Aircraft Manufacturing. The J-20 fighter is difficult to use as a carrier aircraft for the Navy for the following reasons:
First of all, the 歼-20 as a heavy-duty stealth fighter, although in line with the mainstream thinking of the current heavy-duty aircraft, but as a carrier-based aircraft, its size is too large. The 歼-20 adopts a delta wing with a large sweep angle. The wing on the upper ship is difficult to fold, and its own large size, the same hangar capacity may be only about half of 歼15.
Secondly, the 歼-20 was designed to meet the squad attack of the Air Force's long-range sprinter. Its weapon mounting capability and subsequent upgrade capability have been greatly affected, and it may be difficult to meet the operational requirements of the carrier aircraft.
Finally, the production speed of the J-20 is still unable to meet the Chinese Air Force, and for a long time it was unable to balance the Navy.
In contrast, Shen Fei's other FC-31 Eagle Fighter has a number of advantages.
Shen Fei has a unique advantage in the production of carrier aircraft and HNA fighters. The FC-31 is small in size and has the potential to be converted into a carrier aircraft. Although the design and construction of the FC-31 Eagle Fighter medium-sized aircraft has been criticized by many people, from the state of the improved FC-31 fighter, its overall size has been increased, and the overall aerodynamic construction of the aircraft has been improved. , indicating that its upgrade potential is very huge.
For now, one of the biggest reasons why the FC-31 Eagle Fighter cannot be boarded is that China does not have a suitable engine.The FC-31 Hawker prototype uses two RD-93 engines produced in Russia. This engine is the engine of the famous "Airport Defender" MiG-29. It may be more than enough for the FC-31 to use this engine as a medium-sized foreign trade stealth fighter from the beginning, but it is not enough for the ship to become a carrier aircraft. If the turbofan-19 new mid-push is being successfully deployed, the probability of the FC-31 on board will increase greatly. Just recently, Sun Fei’s academician Sun Cong and Wang Yongqing’s chief engineer went to China Aviation to send Guiyang to conduct research on the development of a certain type of engine. According to the news, the model has begun to match the aircraft and the engine, which is likely to indicate that the development of the turbofan-19 new mid-push is nearing completion.
Whether it is the FC-31 Eagle or the 歼-20 Veyron, these two stealth fighters will one day compete on the same stage, and strive to become China's first stealth carrier-based fighter. In the air force's confrontation, the FC-31 eagle is purely powerless, but this eagle has never given up the dream of fighting the sea. I believe that in the future, this is the Chinese sea eagle, and will eventually fly!
(Author's signature: sharp edge / AL)
Trailer23
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China's FC-31 fighter will turn into a carrier aircraft? The chief teacher responded: Wait!
November 10, 2018 08:56
Original title: "The Eagle" fighter or will be turned into a carrier aircraft? Sun Cong responded: Wait!
The 12th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition opened in Zhuhai on November 6th. In terms of aviation equipment, the 歼-20, Yun-20, and 歼-10B thrust vector verification machines have become the stars. In this year's air show, another stealth fighter FC-31 "Suiying" in the "two-type four generations" was displayed in the exhibition hall only in a large scale model, which made countless audiences regret it.
As is known to all, the "Eagle" fighter is a new generation of fighter aircraft independently developed by the aviation industry. At present, there is no public information to prove that it has obtained military approval. The biggest concern of the outside world for the future development of the "Eagle" is whether it will develop into the next generation of carrier aircraft of the Chinese Navy. At the "Dream of Dreams" media meeting held by the aviation industry on November 5th, a reporter asked, Shenyang, as the birthplace of China's first type of carrier-based fighter 歼-15, what kind of carrier on the next generation of carrier-based aircraft At the time of deployment, Sun Cong, chief designer of the FC-31 "Eagle" fighter, replied: From a technical point of view, the development of our fourth-generation machine technology has made great progress and reserves. In the field of carrier aircraft, we also have A wealth of experience, from a time point of view, this is a country's positioning in the development of the problem, once the military needs, the Shenyang area will go all out to complete the development task.
When a reporter asked about the heavy-duty and medium-sized choices in the development of China's next-generation carrier-based aircraft, Sun Cong replied that the so-called medium-sized and heavy-duty choices were fulfilled by missions. Sun Cong also cited the famous senior commander of the US Naval Air Force. Joseph Levy, who is known as the "father of the aircraft carrier", said that the aircraft's combat power is characterized by the number of aircraft that are released within the unit hours, so whether it is a heavy machine or a medium aircraft, the aircraft carrier needs more. The aircraft is the first priority. Sun Cong finally emphasized that as a carrier-based aircraft, the more aircraft carriers can fly without the generation difference, the better the carrier is compiled.
"Dream of Dreams" media meeting
As early as the two sessions in March 2013, Sun Cong, then a member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, revealed that China's next-generation carrier-based aircraft would be available before 2020. In February 2018, the scientific and technological personnel of the Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute of the Aviation Industry wrote in the "China Aviation News" that medium-sized multi-function carrier-based fighters have different combat missions such as performing air combat, suppressing/destroying enemy air defenses, and attacking the ground (sea). The ability can significantly improve the battlefield environment adaptability and flexibility of the aircraft carrier formation, while optimizing the structure and simplifying logistics support. Heavy-duty carrier-based combat opportunities affect the number of aircraft carriers carried by aircraft carriers. The use of medium-sized carrier-based fighters not only increases the number of carriers carried by aircraft carriers, but also lowers maintenance and repair costs, and higher frequency of sunrise movements, and better overall operational efficiency and economic performance. . Therefore, the medium-sized multi-function carrier-based fighter is the mainstream of the current carrier-based fighters, and it is also the trend of development in the future.
At the press conference on November 5, CCTV reporters asked Sun Cong to verify whether the rumors on the Internet about "the eagle turned positive" were real-time, Sun Cong smiled. "Online news puts my heart's wishes out. We are also very concerned about this matter. As for my answer, that is: Wait!"
(Chen Xin Li Muyu)
China's FC-31 fighter will turn into a carrier aircraft? The chief teacher responded: Wait!
November 10, 2018 08:56
Original title: "The Eagle" fighter or will be turned into a carrier aircraft? Sun Cong responded: Wait!
The 12th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition opened in Zhuhai on November 6th. In terms of aviation equipment, the 歼-20, Yun-20, and 歼-10B thrust vector verification machines have become the stars. In this year's air show, another stealth fighter FC-31 "Suiying" in the "two-type four generations" was displayed in the exhibition hall only in a large scale model, which made countless audiences regret it.
As is known to all, the "Eagle" fighter is a new generation of fighter aircraft independently developed by the aviation industry. At present, there is no public information to prove that it has obtained military approval. The biggest concern of the outside world for the future development of the "Eagle" is whether it will develop into the next generation of carrier aircraft of the Chinese Navy. At the "Dream of Dreams" media meeting held by the aviation industry on November 5th, a reporter asked, Shenyang, as the birthplace of China's first type of carrier-based fighter 歼-15, what kind of carrier on the next generation of carrier-based aircraft At the time of deployment, Sun Cong, chief designer of the FC-31 "Eagle" fighter, replied: From a technical point of view, the development of our fourth-generation machine technology has made great progress and reserves. In the field of carrier aircraft, we also have A wealth of experience, from a time point of view, this is a country's positioning in the development of the problem, once the military needs, the Shenyang area will go all out to complete the development task.
When a reporter asked about the heavy-duty and medium-sized choices in the development of China's next-generation carrier-based aircraft, Sun Cong replied that the so-called medium-sized and heavy-duty choices were fulfilled by missions. Sun Cong also cited the famous senior commander of the US Naval Air Force. Joseph Levy, who is known as the "father of the aircraft carrier", said that the aircraft's combat power is characterized by the number of aircraft that are released within the unit hours, so whether it is a heavy machine or a medium aircraft, the aircraft carrier needs more. The aircraft is the first priority. Sun Cong finally emphasized that as a carrier-based aircraft, the more aircraft carriers can fly without the generation difference, the better the carrier is compiled.
"Dream of Dreams" media meeting
As early as the two sessions in March 2013, Sun Cong, then a member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, revealed that China's next-generation carrier-based aircraft would be available before 2020. In February 2018, the scientific and technological personnel of the Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute of the Aviation Industry wrote in the "China Aviation News" that medium-sized multi-function carrier-based fighters have different combat missions such as performing air combat, suppressing/destroying enemy air defenses, and attacking the ground (sea). The ability can significantly improve the battlefield environment adaptability and flexibility of the aircraft carrier formation, while optimizing the structure and simplifying logistics support. Heavy-duty carrier-based combat opportunities affect the number of aircraft carriers carried by aircraft carriers. The use of medium-sized carrier-based fighters not only increases the number of carriers carried by aircraft carriers, but also lowers maintenance and repair costs, and higher frequency of sunrise movements, and better overall operational efficiency and economic performance. . Therefore, the medium-sized multi-function carrier-based fighter is the mainstream of the current carrier-based fighters, and it is also the trend of development in the future.
At the press conference on November 5, CCTV reporters asked Sun Cong to verify whether the rumors on the Internet about "the eagle turned positive" were real-time, Sun Cong smiled. "Online news puts my heart's wishes out. We are also very concerned about this matter. As for my answer, that is: Wait!"
(Chen Xin Li Muyu)
FuturePAF
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Wait till 2020. J-31 as Sea Eagle.
How many fighters does the PLAN want on its Carriers? With the Type 003 planned to be as large as a Nimitz or Ford Class Carrier; it will probably need a similar number as currently on a Nimitz; 24-36 Strike Fighters and 2 Squadrans 10-12 each of Standard Fighters. That's 44-60 Fighters. That's a formidable number for power projection and to cement Superpower status. Protected by 2-3 Type 055 Destroyers and a Mix of Type 052D, 054A, and Submarines; The Chinese navy is starting to remake Chinese power projection not seen since the likes of Zheng He.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_003_aircraft_carrier
How many fighters does the PLAN want on its Carriers? With the Type 003 planned to be as large as a Nimitz or Ford Class Carrier; it will probably need a similar number as currently on a Nimitz; 24-36 Strike Fighters and 2 Squadrans 10-12 each of Standard Fighters. That's 44-60 Fighters. That's a formidable number for power projection and to cement Superpower status. Protected by 2-3 Type 055 Destroyers and a Mix of Type 052D, 054A, and Submarines; The Chinese navy is starting to remake Chinese power projection not seen since the likes of Zheng He.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_003_aircraft_carrier
Bilal Khan (Quwa)
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@Horus @Oscar what are your thoughts on the PAF getting the FC-31 off the shelf as a bridge fighter in the lead up to Project Azm?
I'm asking because Alan Warnes, after speaking to the CAS, said Azm would fly within 10 years and is to fully materialize (I'm guessing be in service in healthy numbers?) by 2047. The CAS also framed Azm as a "5/6 gen fighter" ?
That leaves a gap in the 2020s and 2030s where the older F-16s and JF-17s must go. The latter can probably go via a Block-IV/V, but the former?
As I see it, we might see an interim FGF bid between the FC-31 and the TFX (remember, Warnes said last year it'd figure into the PAF's plans, and ACM Aman said something re: working with Turkey on a next gen fighter).
I'm asking because Alan Warnes, after speaking to the CAS, said Azm would fly within 10 years and is to fully materialize (I'm guessing be in service in healthy numbers?) by 2047. The CAS also framed Azm as a "5/6 gen fighter" ?
That leaves a gap in the 2020s and 2030s where the older F-16s and JF-17s must go. The latter can probably go via a Block-IV/V, but the former?
As I see it, we might see an interim FGF bid between the FC-31 and the TFX (remember, Warnes said last year it'd figure into the PAF's plans, and ACM Aman said something re: working with Turkey on a next gen fighter).
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That depends if the Chinese WS-19 can pump up to 100kn of reheat. It depends on the quality of the software available, sensors and weapons.
PAF has to replace those PGs you know. Two Squadrons of J-31 wouldn't hurt.
Im waiting to see if PLN places an order. That'll inject the much needed cash into the project and accelerate its development.
PAF has to replace those PGs you know. Two Squadrons of J-31 wouldn't hurt.
Im waiting to see if PLN places an order. That'll inject the much needed cash into the project and accelerate its development.
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If PLAN places an order, I don't think it is a good news to PAF.
Kompromat
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It should not be an issue i think. PLAN will pay for a carrier variant with folded wings, catapult enabled landing gear etc.
The same aircraft can be produced with a conventional wing and landing gear. Much like the Mig-29 SMT & Mig-29 K.
Again, the deciding factor will be the engine.
The same aircraft can be produced with a conventional wing and landing gear. Much like the Mig-29 SMT & Mig-29 K.
Again, the deciding factor will be the engine.
LKJ86
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I mean maybe it won't be exported.
Kompromat
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That decision lies with the CCP. If China bans its export, there's nothing Pakistan can do. We'd just have to look for a replacement elsewhere, since we don't have the capacity to develop a 5th generation aircraft on our own.
LKJ86
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What about project Azm?
HRK
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its a long journey ....
Kompromat
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Project Azm will fly in 2028.
Rafales arrive in 2022.
What will do for those years in between?
Rafales arrive in 2022.
What will do for those years in between?
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I think the FC-31 as-is will be offered for export, the PLAN would get a very different sub-variant for both carrier ops and other improvements. Basically, the J-10A (FC-20) vs. J-10B/C story.
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