Saab Won’t Abandon Indian Gripen Effort, Has Patience in Brazil

[WHITESMOKE]

O really?

Hey spark, can you spark something about kaveri tests...long time to hear something about this baby....

 

[WHITESMOKE]

There was a member " Screaming skull" , did he changed his name or left...? I remember he used to open great threads... Sometimes i think may be spark changed his name.... Can some one tell me why many of great members left... ( or almost left) ?

 

[pmukherjee]

JSF has completed the 1000 hrs flying threshold I thought- how will FGFA for India be operational before it? and this is for the current deal you can have a 5th gen skip 4.5 and also have you own FGFA fulfilling a role in diffrent capacity , yeah?

Why do I even bother to respond to you? Maybe USA should have offered us the JSF long ago when the bidding was done and not when they find they do not have enough buyers and the Congress is threatening to shut down the JSF altogether. Maybe we do not need two stealth fighters. Anyway, whether you like it or not, JSF does not figure in the MMRCA contract. Period.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Why do I even bother to respond to you? Maybe USA should have offered us the JSF long ago when the bidding was done and not when they find they do not have enough buyers and the Congress is threatening to shut down the JSF altogether. Maybe we do not need two stealth fighters. Anyway, whether you like it or not, JSF does not figure in the MMRCA contract. Period.

I too don't know why US of A is shitting now when they have been already kicked out... they should have offered F35 long ago... but that time they were banking on their old horses... Whatever they say/do now... There will be no new candidate. Let the French and EFT guys reap the benefits of hard work done in technical evaluation.

 

[misterme2]

Why do I even bother to respond to you? Maybe USA should have offered us the JSF long ago when the bidding was done and not when they find they do not have enough buyers and the Congress is threatening to shut down the JSF altogether. Maybe we do not need two stealth fighters. Anyway, whether you like it or not, JSF does not figure in the MMRCA contract. Period.

Whats wrong with you? YOu have a stick up your butt. You act very immature the moment you hear anything regarding US. Oh I see, it must be Benagli thing (Leftist Idealogue)

 

[misterme2]

I too don't know why US of A is shitting now when they have been already kicked out... they should have offered F35 long ago... but that time they were banking on their old horses... Whatever they say/do now... There will be no new candidate. Let the French and EFT guys reap the benefits of hard work done in technical evaluation.

They mentioned it earlier if I am not mistaken but India didn;t give a firm answer. The Europeans offer a lot of kickbacks, don;t forget most of the money made of corruption in India is in EUROPE!!!! Opportunities arise in a moment, and we have to be smart enought to grab and exploit such opportunities and moments. The US is positioning itself as a stragetic partner to India. It will open the doors to much more. The technical issues are obviously in favor of America 5th G vs 4.5 G, but the clauses can be a major sticking point. This is what needs to be addressed favorably for India in order for this plane to succeed. The hard work was by our guys not the Europeans.

 

[localoca]

how?! There is no chance in hell US would ever offer full ToT.

why would U.S.A turst India with its highest tech equip when they are so close friends with Russia? if F35 ends in Indias hands I bet Russia will have a good peak at its tech...

 

[localoca]

we will start inducting FGFA/Pak-FA before the JSF is even operational.

Keep dreaming fanboy...

 

[pmukherjee]

Whats wrong with you? YOu have a stick up your butt. You act very immature the moment you hear anything regarding US. Oh I see, it must be Benagli thing (Leftist Idealogue)

Thanks for showing your true colors. I will not respond to you in your language. No I am no more a 'Leftist Idealogue' than you are. I was just stating facts as I see them. Had the Americans offered the JSF when the competition began, the JSF would have probably beaten all the other competing fighters. Though the persisting technical problems of the JSF, the delays and the cost overruns would not have helped its case. Moreover, India has already invested heavily in the PAk-FA/FGFA, would another stealth fighter in our inventory made any sense? Remember, we started out looking for a replacement for our Mig-21s with a decent multirole fighter, not a stealth fighter. Anyway, the GOI has made it very clear the we do not intend inducting the JSF. So, that should close the needless discussion.
http://www./NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=14946

 

[misterme2]

Thanks for showing your true colors. I will not respond to you in your language. No I am no more a 'Leftist Idealogue' than you are. I was just stating facts as I see them. Had the Americans offered the JSF when the competition began, the JSF would have probably beaten all the other competing fighters. Though the persisting technical problems of the JSF, the delays and the cost overruns would not have helped its case. Moreover, India has already invested heavily in the PAk-FA/FGFA, would another stealth fighter in our inventory made any sense? Remember, we started out looking for a replacement for our Mig-21s with a decent multirole fighter, not a stealth fighter. Anyway, the GOI has made it very clear the we do not intend inducting the JSF. So, that should close the needless discussion.
http://www./NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=14946

I have also argued that this was a fundamenatal flaw in the US mindset to dump an old plane into this competition. When Tellis was stating the INdian blunder I stated that it was an error on the Americans to offer such a plane when India's enemies have such experience. The only notable feature was AESA but with all the clauses, it outweighed the benefits. Listen the US is going to dump anything it can and will use pressure tactics to get contracts signed. Good for India and AK Anthony for standing up. India deserves the best with no or lil strings attached. Whoever is willingly to offer that should be the winner. ON the other hand, now that F 35 is oofered we should weigh the options and try our best to have the clauses altered to appease the political/ideoloagical mindset still prevalent in our gov;t and ppl. Times have changed, India 10 yrs ago was a speck in the dust. Now, its has some weight but it shouldn;t get too big for her shoes, not yet at least. Look at the overall advantages and play our cards right. FGFA does not make us a fully fledged partner, only limited coz the design phase is already done. Replacing the MIG 21 with a multirole fighter does not exclude a stealth fighter. In fact, there are more benefits of having such aircraft in our inventory. Warfare in the skies has changed considerably, so what are your chances without stealth, etc? The US has footed the costs, delays, etc. We would be in a prime position to enjoy the advantages of such craft and closer relations. The GOI has back tracked numeroue times, so this to me is not news. It just limits the BS while they examine the deal closely quietly. No ofence abot the leftist menality, but I noticed many Indians have a real issue with America when they don't have all the facts!

 

[DacterSaab]

the only problem with purchasing JSF is what will happen if Obama's successor is not this inclined to the "Indo-US strategic partnership"

 

[pmukherjee]

the only problem with purchasing JSF is what will happen if Obama's successor is not this inclined to the "Indo-US strategic partnership"

The JSF is not the Raptor. UK has declined to buy the F-35B (Marine version STOVL), Other partners are scaling back on the orders of F-35. The cost of development of the JSF is steadily rising and the programme is getting delayed. There is a lot of pressure on the US Congress to scrap the JSF and revive the production lines of the F-22. Already the project for the development of alternate engine for the JSF has been canceled and the funds allocated for the same have been funneled into the JSF programme. The US can not think of reviewing a decision to sell the JSF to us at a later date if we commit the programme now. The point is do we want it? The IN was interested in the F-35B at one point but it appears that this version may be totally scrapped.

 

[pmukherjee]

I have also argued that this was a fundamenatal flaw in the US mindset to dump an old plane into this competition. When Tellis was stating the INdian blunder I stated that it was an error on the Americans to offer such a plane when India's enemies have such experience. The only notable feature was AESA but with all the clauses, it outweighed the benefits. Listen the US is going to dump anything it can and will use pressure tactics to get contracts signed. Good for India and AK Anthony for standing up. India deserves the best with no or lil strings attached. Whoever is willingly to offer that should be the winner. ON the other hand, now that F 35 is oofered we should weigh the options and try our best to have the clauses altered to appease the political/ideoloagical mindset still prevalent in our gov;t and ppl. Times have changed, India 10 yrs ago was a speck in the dust. Now, its has some weight but it shouldn;t get too big for her shoes, not yet at least. Look at the overall advantages and play our cards right. FGFA does not make us a fully fledged partner, only limited coz the design phase is already done. Replacing the MIG 21 with a multirole fighter does not exclude a stealth fighter. In fact, there are more benefits of having such aircraft in our inventory. Warfare in the skies has changed considerably, so what are your chances without stealth, etc? The US has footed the costs, delays, etc. We would be in a prime position to enjoy the advantages of such craft and closer relations. The GOI has back tracked numeroue times, so this to me is not news. It just limits the BS while they examine the deal closely quietly. No ofence abot the leftist menality, but I noticed many Indians have a real issue with America when they don't have all the facts!

That was a good post. Thanks. I wish I could share your enthusiasm about the JSF. I suggest that you peruse the CRS Report on the JSF submitted to the US Congress as recently as 26 April 2011. It clears a lot of cobwebs. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL30563.pdf

I will just paste one small item of interest here.

Table 1. F-35 Variant Milestones
--------First flown----------------In testing----------------- Original IOC goal-------estimated IOC
F-35A-----December 15, 2006---2 @ Edwards AFB--------------March 2013---------------------2016
F-35B------June 11, 2008--------3 @ NAS Patuxent River-------March 2012--------------------- TBD
First hover:
March 17, 2010

F-35C----June 6, 2010-----------1 @ NAS Patuxent River------ March 2015---------------------2016

As you can see, the entire programme is unduly delayed. The point is can we afford to wait that long? With the J-20s breathing down our neck?