Saab to pitch Gripen again

[axisofevil]

True that almost similar plane is a great advantage and Saab JV may entitle us a faster evolutionary pattern for LCA
BUT
Do you seriously believe a JV of Saab Gripen will really allow LCA program to evolve.
Consider a possibility that Saab does help us and evolve LCA to almsot like Mini gripen, so when it comes to IAF which bird it should select? The proposition of Light fighter single engine category is almost like12-15 squadrons. So the reality is Saab would only eat up LCA share rather than evolve LCA program.

In all honesty, the LCA at present form of production rate is the ultimate issue bccz of which MOD is exploring Saab possibility. If we could have produced 16-20 birds a year (at present 8 or even less as they miss timelines a lot) then this optional thought would not have arose only.

Its a messy affair here. i dont blame government for this if they say we want 200 light fighters and when they look at HAL, they see they are still trying to raise 1st squadron in a snail's pace. Just few days back and whats not much published widely is HAL missed another internal timeline for FOC purpose which has irked and irritated MOD and DM in particular.
I would not fault them if our DPSU is not able to meet GOI/MOD expectation. This will always lead to exploring other options..

The way we manufacture planes and missiles is reportedly stuck on using 1950's tech. Its the sole reason for the slow pace and the failure of our missiles. It ha sto be tackled.


Saab should be brought in. Offer them a 49% joint venture. And the issues you brought up has to be addressed. No need to make a mini Gripen. Take the gripen platform, make it better and incorporate it. Tejas shouldn't be discarded. It will a great trainer, testing, targeting, etc. Start unmanned development using it as a platform. We need to change our thinking like the CHinese who develop so many craft and produce a few, learn their strenghts and weaknesses, retire craft deemed obselete, and move forward with more ideas. There is nothing wrong with that. Its a learing curve and by doing so, we are moving the pace faster.

Doubt what? If you are wondering whether Tejas is better than Gripen then forget it, I was being sarcastic. Here I get negative ratings from Indian bigots who can't handle bitter truth. So I feed their fantasies.

LMAO! Thank God I thought you were serious for a moment. Saab is the best bet for us and it effectively blunts Pakistan's efforts. I like the Rafale but it wont help our industry honestly. Saab would be more amenable to co producing and sharing the research.

 

[Indian Patriot]

The way we manufacture planes and missiles is reportedly stuck on using 1950's tech. Its the sole reason for the slow pace and the failure of our missiles. It ha sto be tackled.

When you rely on sarkari babus to build you missiles - aka the DRDO, OFB etc. - then this is what you will get. If India wants to march ahead then they will have to kick out PSUs and invite private players. Unlimited funds, lack of accountability means PSUs will never have the required motivation. A student who is assured of a first division will never bother to open his book and study to earn more marks.

Saab should be brought in. Offer them a 49% joint venture. And the issues you brought up has to be addresses. No need to make a mini Gripen. Take the gripen platform, make it better and incorporate it.

Why do you think SAAB will hand you Gripen tech for free? They workd years and day and night for their research. They won;t hand it just like that, at least not for free. And you forget handing out tech is very risky. In theory India can buy SAAB tech and build an aircraft of their own. That Indian aircraft will later become Gripen competitor in arms market. SAAB won't do that, NOBODY will do that.

Israeli LAVI was a damn good aircraft, in fact better than F-16 some say. US used same machinations and killed the Lavi.

 

[shree835]

You missed my point. You can join SAAB to develop Tejas as a mini gripen and use them together. Similar parts, engines will make it cheaper to operate.

SAAB has already offered India to co develop Tejas MK2....Not Sure why India is not taking SAAB Seriously....Is because SAAB has supplied Defense equipment to pakistan...???

 

[Ind4Ever]

L

Why → ?

 

[axisofevil]

When you rely on sarkari babus to build you missiles - aka the DRDO, OFB etc. - then this is what you will get. If India wants to march ahead then they will have to kick out PSUs and invite private players. Unlimited funds, lack of accountability means PSUs will never have the required motivation. A student who is assured of a first division will never bother to open his book and study to earn more marks.



Why do you think SAAB will hand you Gripen tech for free? They workd years and day and night for their research. They won;t hand it just like that, at least not for free. And you forget handing out tech is very risky. In theory India can buy SAAB tech and build an aircraft of their own. That Indian aircraft will later become Gripen competitor in arms market. SAAB won't do that, NOBODY will do that.

Israeli LAVI was a damn good aircraft, in fact better than F-16 some say. US used same machinations and killed the Lavi.

Lavi was killed but not before China was given a blueprint. As for Saab, if my memory serves me right ...I think their deal was the best when it came to tech research and sharing. We can buy out Saab.....if not...create a new deal on our terms and see if they want a piece of a pie that will grow bigger and bigger with the Indian economy under Modi.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Lavi was killed but not before China was given a blueprint. As for Saab, if my memory serves me right ...I think their deal was the best when it came to tech research and sharing. We can buy out Saab.....if not...create a new deal on our terms and see if they want a piece of a pie that will grow bigger and bigger with the Indian economy under Modi.

Joint-production with SAAB will be equally expensive. SAAB will not fund their own competition. Why would IAF need two aircraft of the same mission type? It would be either LCA or Gripen. I would have said fcuk LCA and buy Gripen. LCA can be used as AJT. But at times national pride and ego overcomes senses.

 

[Kompromat]

SAAB has already offered India to co develop Tejas MK2....Not Sure why India is not taking SAAB Seriously....Is because SAAB has supplied Defense equipment to pakistan...???

Maybe not offering enough kickbacks

 

[Indian Patriot]

This kickback culture is the bane of India.

 

[axisofevil]

Joint-production with SAAB will be equally expensive. SAAB will not fund their own competition. Why would IAF need two aircraft of the same mission type? It would be either LCA or Gripen. I would have said fcuk LCA and buy Gripen. LCA can be used as AJT. But at times national pride and ego overcomes senses.

Thats fine. Push Tejas to be AJT and the other options I mentioned.

Brazil was in the same boat as India....look the end up buying Gripen even after admitting the French was the best but after doing more reaserch and weighing all options, they settled on Gripen to help their domestic industry eventually.
F-X2: Brazil Buys Gripen, Deal Raises Prosecutor Eyebrows

 

[Indian Patriot]

Thats fine. Push Tejas to be AJT and the other options I mentioned.

Brazil was in the same boat as India....look the end up buying Gripen even after admitting the French was the best but after doing more reaserch and weighing all options, they settled on Gripen to help their domestic industry eventually.
F-X2: Brazil Buys Gripen, Deal Raises Prosecutor Eyebrows

India needs to do a Brahmos on aircraft. That is joint-production of a new aircraft with a partner. Not just funding like FGFA but genuine joint research, design etc. if Indians are to learn how to build planes.

 

[kaonalpha]

L

Why → ?

YOu are asking why from a person who's own country maintains 2 platforms with great difficulty offcourse Im shocked to see so many different platforms with more on the way

 

[axisofevil]

India needs to do a Brahmos on aircraft. That is joint-production of a new aircraft with a partner. Not just funding like FGFA but genuine joint research, design etc. if Indians are to learn how to build planes.

Agree.


Brazil could have simply picked another contender, but Poder Aero’s report says that technology transfer issues around the Scorpene submarine, and problems transferring production to India, have hurt the Rafale’s chances. Frankly, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. The statements regarding the PROSUB programare difficult to verify, but there are counter-examples likes like the EC725 helicopter project that have gone quite well. As for India’s M-MRCA competition, that’s a poor model. Brazil’s aerospace production capabilities are far more advanced than HAL’s, and many of India’s negotiating problems are self-inflicted policy wounds – like wanting to place financial penalties on Dassault for delays, while giving Dassault no management authority with key suppliers. It all depends on what Rousseff’s briefings are telling her.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Agree.


Brazil could have simply picked another contender, but Poder Aero’s report says that technology transfer issues around the Scorpene submarine, and problems transferring production to India, have hurt the Rafale’s chances. Frankly, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. The statements regarding the PROSUB programare difficult to verify, but there are counter-examples likes like the EC725 helicopter project that have gone quite well. As for India’s M-MRCA competition, that’s a poor model. Brazil’s aerospace production capabilities are far more advanced than HAL’s, and many of India’s negotiating problems are self-inflicted policy wounds – like wanting to place financial penalties on Dassault for delays, while giving Dassault no management authority with key suppliers. It all depends on what Rousseff’s briefings are telling her.

Brazil has an undeniable advantage over India in aircraft manufacturing. Brazil aircraft are quiet famous. In fact Indian future AWACS are to be installed in Brazilian aircraft.

Agree.


Brazil could have simply picked another contender, but Poder Aero’s report says that technology transfer issues around the Scorpene submarine, and problems transferring production to India, have hurt the Rafale’s chances. Frankly, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. The statements regarding the PROSUB programare difficult to verify, but there are counter-examples likes like the EC725 helicopter project that have gone quite well. As for India’s M-MRCA competition, that’s a poor model. Brazil’s aerospace production capabilities are far more advanced than HAL’s, and many of India’s negotiating problems are self-inflicted policy wounds – like wanting to place financial penalties on Dassault for delays, while giving Dassault no management authority with key suppliers. It all depends on what Rousseff’s briefings are telling her.

Brazil has an undeniable advantage over India in aircraft manufacturing. Brazil aircraft are quiet famous. In fact Indian future AWACS are to be installed in Brazilian aircraft.

 

[magudi]

SAAB has already offered India to co develop Tejas MK2....Not Sure why India is not taking SAAB Seriously....Is because SAAB has supplied Defense equipment to pakistan...???

We lost that opportunity during previous regime , i hope parrikar is smart enough to restart negotiations. A JV will be the best thing to happen.

 

[Koovie]

Too much ego-hassled, won't happen.

For many Indians Tejas is the "coming of age" for Indian aviation. To see their idol have to take foreign support to keep flying would be a major blow. That's why Gripen was rejected from MMRCA - it was tooo similar to the LCA and questions would be raised why two aircrafts of the same mission-type were in operation.

The sun may rise from the west but the Gripen will not be inducted.

Who the f*** cares about their ego?

Its about increasing the capabilities of the IAF and strengthening the aviation industry.