S-400 purchase will restrict Turkey's access to NATO technology, US official says

[Pax Ottomana]

One X-Band radar system is deployed in Israel which offers enormous early warning coverage against ballistic missile threats in the region.

Again, radar system in Turkey is intended to provide your country long-range early warning against Ballistic Missile threats. If you remove it, US can redeploy it elsewhere per its needs.

It is shortsighted to assume that a single installation in Turkey is of any consequence to American surveillance coverage on the whole; it is not. US surveillance network is of GLOBAL proportions (space; land; air; and sea). Removal of a radar system from a country in the Middle East is virtually inconsequential to its operations.

Having the radar as close to potential launch points (presumably in the Middle East and South Asia) as possible is of great interest to the US/NATO. The closer you are, the earlier you can detect the launch, identify the type of the rocket/warhead, calculate its trajectory and plot a solution for intercept. Sure, the US can take the radar out of Turkey and assemble it in another NATO country in the West. The problem is that that adds additional time to the total reaction time where mere SECONDS can mean life-and-death for millions of people in Europe/North America.

As for Turkey not being able to see what's happening... All radar image is fed to all the NATO members in real time. So Turkey still has access to the general network. However without an eye in Turkey, NATO would lose its closest picture of potential launch areas. Unlike Europe, Turkey doesn't feel threatened by Iran or any other Middle Eastern country, by the way. So it's the same difference for us.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

An EU army is still the wet dream of EU federalists, that being said I hope that Europe comes to their senses and creates joint weapons again. Tanks or an Eurofighter replacement are long overdue.

I doubt there is any EU country outside NATO that wants to establish an EU Army.
I doubt there is any EU country within NATO that wants an EU Army instead of the NATO Alliance.
NATO is the EU Army.
Federalists wants the non NATO countries to join, but there is no political majority for that.
Russias behaviour is of course increasing the probability of non NATO countries joining.

 

[F-22Raptor]

The US and Poland have struck a $10.5 billion dollar deal for Patriot missile systems:

In a move likely to irk Russia, the US and Poland agreed on Friday a major arms deal that could see the eastern European NATO member soon begin conducting air and missile defense operations.

As part of the $10.5 billion (€8.9 billion) sale, Poland is expected to receive 208 Patriot Advanced Capabilty-3 (PAC-3) Missile Segment Enhancement missiles, 16 M903 launching stations, four AN/MPQ-65 radars, four control stations, spares, software and associated equipment.

http://www.dw.com/en/us-and-poland-strike-105-billion-missile-defense-deal/a-41433719

Romania also intends to purchase Patriots in 2019 worth $3.9 billion:

Romania's defense minister says the country will purchase Patriot missiles worth $3.9 billion from the United States in the first half of 2019.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/romania-buy-us-patriot-missiles-2019-51272812

 

[LeGenD]

Having the radar as close to potential launch points (presumably in the Middle East and South Asia) as possible is of great interest to the US/NATO. The closer you are, the earlier you can detect the launch, identify the type of the rocket/warhead, calculate its trajectory and plot a solution for intercept. Sure, the US can take the radar out of Turkey and assemble it in another NATO country in the West. The problem is that that adds additional time to the total reaction time where mere SECONDS can mean life-and-death for millions of people in Europe/North America.

As for Turkey not being able to see what's happening... All radar image is fed to all the NATO members in real time. So Turkey still has access to the general network. However without an eye in Turkey, NATO would lose its closest picture of potential launch areas. Unlike Europe, Turkey doesn't feel threatened by Iran or any other Middle Eastern country, by the way. So it's the same difference for us.

I appreciate the input but something is amiss in your explanation.

This is how the TPY-2 X-Band Radar system functions:

Depending on the needs of the warfighter, the AN/TPY-2 radar can be deployed in two different modes. In forward-based mode, the radar is positioned near hostile territory, and acquires ballistic missiles in the boost (ascent) phase of flight, shortly after they are launched. It then tracks and discriminates the threat, and passes critical information required by decision makers to the Command and Control Battle Management network.

When the AN/TPY-2 radar is deployed in terminal mode, the radar’s job is to detect, acquire, track and discriminate ballistic missiles in the terminal (descent) phase of flight. The terminal-mode AN/TPY-2 also leads the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense ballistic missile defense system by guiding the THAAD missile to intercept a threat.

Source: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/antpy2/

This radar system is effective in its mission in virtually any position and enables a (nearby) ballistic missile defense system such as THAAD to terminate an incoming ballistic missile during the terminal phase of its flight (should the need arise).

You are assuming that US needs to install these radar systems across the world to get early warning coverage of ballistic and cruise missile launches from Iran and/or Russia which is plainly wrong. US receives such early warning coverage from a large number of assets positioned across the world in sea, land, air and space. Examples below.

Early warning from space (global coverage):

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/sbirs.html
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/space-based-infrared-system-sbirs/
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-are-the-doomsday-satellites-that-detected-the-exp-1737434876

Early warning from oceans (global coverage):

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-are-the-little-known-ships-that-make-missile-defe-1594677657

Early warning from air (global coverage):

http://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/Fa...26401/ballistic-missile-early-warning-system/
https://gizmodo.com/5989481/there-isnt-an-icbm-around-that-can-sneak-past-this-radar-array
http://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Article/249015/pave-paws-radar-system/

So my friend, AN/TPY-2 radar system is a goldfish in comparison to what US have stationed out there in regards to receive early warning of ballistic and cruise missile launches from any country. Not just the early warning, US have the capability to track the flight-path of a ballistic or cruise missile in real-time in any part of the world. Its surveillance network is of GLOBAL reach and proportions, and multi-layered.

Turkey wants to bolster its defenses against ballistic and cruise missiles for which US provided it an AN/TPY-2 radar system in 2012. Next step was to provide PAC-3 and/or THAAD systems to Turkey but this deal did not materialize due to political factors (and otherwise). Therefore, Turkey decided to acquire S-400 systems from Russia as an alternative. Now the problem is that S-400 systems cannot be hooked to the AN/TPY-2 radar system (or the US would not allow this). So if Turkey requests the US to remove its AN/TPY-2 radar system from its mainland, the latter shall oblige accordingly. But to assume that this move hampers American surveillance ability vis-a-vis Iran and/or Russia is sheer ignorance of how US surveillance system works and what kind of networks it comprises.

 

[egolfs]

I appreciate the input but something is amiss in your explanation.

This is how the TPY-2 X-Band Radar system functions:

Depending on the needs of the warfighter, the AN/TPY-2 radar can be deployed in two different modes. In forward-based mode, the radar is positioned near hostile territory, and acquires ballistic missiles in the boost (ascent) phase of flight, shortly after they are launched. It then tracks and discriminates the threat, and passes critical information required by decision makers to the Command and Control Battle Management network.

When the AN/TPY-2 radar is deployed in terminal mode, the radar’s job is to detect, acquire, track and discriminate ballistic missiles in the terminal (descent) phase of flight. The terminal-mode AN/TPY-2 also leads the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense ballistic missile defense system by guiding the THAAD missile to intercept a threat.

Source: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/antpy2/

This radar system is effective in its mission in virtually any position and enables a (nearby) ballistic missile defense system such as THAAD to terminate an incoming ballistic missile during the terminal phase of its flight (should the need arise).

You are assuming that US needs to install these radar systems across the world to get early warning coverage of ballistic and cruise missile launches from Iran and/or Russia which is plainly wrong. US receives such early warning coverage from a large number of assets positioned across the world in sea, land, air and space. Examples below.

Early warning from space (global coverage):

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/sbirs.html
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/space-based-infrared-system-sbirs/
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-are-the-doomsday-satellites-that-detected-the-exp-1737434876

Early warning from oceans (global coverage):

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-are-the-little-known-ships-that-make-missile-defe-1594677657

Early warning from air (global coverage):

http://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/Fa...26401/ballistic-missile-early-warning-system/
https://gizmodo.com/5989481/there-isnt-an-icbm-around-that-can-sneak-past-this-radar-array
http://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Article/249015/pave-paws-radar-system/

So my friend, AN/TPY-2 radar system is a goldfish in comparison to what US have stationed out there in regards to receive early warning of ballistic and cruise missile launches from any country. Not just the early warning, US have the capability to track the flight-path of a ballistic or cruise missile in real-time in any part of the world. Its surveillance network is of GLOBAL reach and proportions, and multi-layered.

Turkey wants to bolster its defenses against ballistic and cruise missiles for which US provided it an AN/TPY-2 radar system in 2012. Next step was to provide PAC-3 and/or THAAD systems to Turkey but this deal did not materialize due to political factors (and otherwise). Therefore, Turkey decided to acquire S-400 systems from Russia as an alternative. Now the problem is that S-400 systems cannot be hooked to the AN/TPY-2 radar system (or the US would not allow this). So if Turkey requests the US to remove its AN/TPY-2 radar system from its mainland, the latter shall oblige accordingly. But to assume that this move hampers American surveillance ability vis-a-vis Iran and/or Russia is sheer ignorance of how US surveillance system works and what kind of networks it comprises.

I personally believe that the radar system in Turkey is mainly important to the United States because it is their best and quickest way to receive an early warning of any ballistic missile launches by Iran against Israel.

It is all about Israel - Any attempt to dismantle this radar system will constitute Turkey, in the mind of the USA, as being against Israel and on the side of Iran - which will then lead to Turkey being treated as an enemy.

 

[era_shield]

I appreciate the input but something is amiss in your explanation.

This is how the TPY-2 X-Band Radar system functions:

Depending on the needs of the warfighter, the AN/TPY-2 radar can be deployed in two different modes. In forward-based mode, the radar is positioned near hostile territory, and acquires ballistic missiles in the boost (ascent) phase of flight, shortly after they are launched. It then tracks and discriminates the threat, and passes critical information required by decision makers to the Command and Control Battle Management network.

When the AN/TPY-2 radar is deployed in terminal mode, the radar’s job is to detect, acquire, track and discriminate ballistic missiles in the terminal (descent) phase of flight. The terminal-mode AN/TPY-2 also leads the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense ballistic missile defense system by guiding the THAAD missile to intercept a threat.

Source: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/antpy2/

This radar system is effective in its mission in virtually any position and enables a (nearby) ballistic missile defense system such as THAAD to terminate an incoming ballistic missile during the terminal phase of its flight (should the need arise).

You are assuming that US needs to install these radar systems across the world to get early warning coverage of ballistic and cruise missile launches from Iran and/or Russia which is plainly wrong. US receives such early warning coverage from a large number of assets positioned across the world in sea, land, air and space. Examples below.

Early warning from space (global coverage):

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/sbirs.html
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/space-based-infrared-system-sbirs/
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-are-the-doomsday-satellites-that-detected-the-exp-1737434876

Early warning from oceans (global coverage):

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-are-the-little-known-ships-that-make-missile-defe-1594677657

Early warning from air (global coverage):

http://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/Fa...26401/ballistic-missile-early-warning-system/
https://gizmodo.com/5989481/there-isnt-an-icbm-around-that-can-sneak-past-this-radar-array
http://www.afspc.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Article/249015/pave-paws-radar-system/

So my friend, AN/TPY-2 radar system is a goldfish in comparison to what US have stationed out there in regards to receive early warning of ballistic and cruise missile launches from any country. Not just the early warning, US have the capability to track the flight-path of a ballistic or cruise missile in real-time in any part of the world. Its surveillance network is of GLOBAL reach and proportions, and multi-layered.

Turkey wants to bolster its defenses against ballistic and cruise missiles for which US provided it an AN/TPY-2 radar system in 2012. Next step was to provide PAC-3 and/or THAAD systems to Turkey but this deal did not materialize due to political factors (and otherwise). Therefore, Turkey decided to acquire S-400 systems from Russia as an alternative. Now the problem is that S-400 systems cannot be hooked to the AN/TPY-2 radar system (or the US would not allow this). So if Turkey requests the US to remove its AN/TPY-2 radar system from its mainland, the latter shall oblige accordingly. But to assume that this move hampers American surveillance ability vis-a-vis Iran and/or Russia is sheer ignorance of how US surveillance system works and what kind of networks it comprises.

You have a few mistakes here. "This radar system is effective in its mission in virtually any position" - your own quote clearly contradicts this. It's only effective in the launch or the terminal stages, not in between. Secondly, "early warning" isn't enough to defeat an attack - you need to shoot the missile down, and for this your engagement radar must be close to the launch site. Yes, there will be another chance to shoot it down in the terminal stage, but that's risky because of MIRVs and other concerns so you always want to shoot it down in the launch stage if you can. That's why Russia was so pissed when the Polish radar was decided, even though the US already had a bunch of early warning and terminal-defeat systems.

 

[cabatli_53]

The only concern of USA to determine ME policy is about to protect the benefit of Israel. NATO is also being used as a tool to do similar things. Letting US to station their radar into Turkish soul was a big mistake since Turkey is being used to protect a spoiled adolescent state, while the relations of Turkey with long standing neighbours like Iran and Russia affected bad cause of this situation.

 

[cabatli_53]

BTW, USA totally lost the ground in ME so appealing wellknown terrorists to seperate the states to establish a safe satellite states for their bases in the center of ME.
They tried to get rid of an elected president of Turkish Republic with a coup and failed. Turkey takes neccessary measues on politics/arm deals, while we are threatened with embargo but already showing middile finger to them, coordinating ME matters with Russia and Iran. Iraq is already a Iranian proxy, dealing with Russia on strategic projects. Syria is a place where USA play dirty games with PKK/PYd/ISIS terrorists but surrounded by Russian/Iranian/Turkish proxies. Saudi Arabia is sole triggerman of USA, feeded with billion $ worth arms to protect Israeli/USA and indirectly PYD benefits in region to threaten Qatar/Lebanon/Yemen like states following different way of politics USA wishes.

 

[Babur The Uzbek Tiger]

I have written papers on how bad Europe and NATO have treated Turkey just especially over the last three decades. This is nonsense, and don't tell me that showing Ataturk and Erdogan as enemies during war games is some sort of innocent gaff. Even if it is a gaff by third party employees as they claim, then it is reflective of the general attitude by supposed liberal white European Christian societies. Turkey in my opinion was asleep while it's security was guaranteed by the ones challenging Turkey's very sovereignty right now. I knew Turkey was going to take serious offense when they realized Obama had chosen terrorist Kurd groups over giving Turkey a positive image and important role in Syria other than setting up a trap. During these dangerous times as terrorist groups are on the loose and like Cabatli has stated, a coup was attempted from outside because of the hatred of all things Turkish by Europe and the West. And this is correlated with Erdogan as being an Ottoman style dictator. Their true feelings are revealed and the Turks who deny this are delusional. NATO is not Turkey's friend but rather the whore of Babylon that must be countered with S-400 and then later S-500 while a nuclear program is developed quickly. Tension with Greece and others is going to become bad while the U.S. supports Kurdish and Wahhabist terror groups to further destabilize Turkey and the region.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I have written papers on how bad Europe and NATO have treated Turkey just especially over the last three decades. This is nonsense, and don't tell me that showing Ataturk and Erdogan as enemies during war games is some sort of innocent gaff. Even if it is a gaff by third party employees as they claim, then it is reflective of the general attitude by supposed liberal white European Christian societies. Turkey in my opinion was asleep while it's security was guaranteed by the ones challenging Turkey's very sovereignty right now. I knew Turkey was going to take serious offense when they realized Obama had chosen terrorist Kurd groups over giving Turkey a positive image and important role in Syria other than setting up a trap. During these dangerous times as terrorist groups are on the loose and like Cabatli has stated, a coup was attempted from outside because of the hatred of all things Turkish by Europe and the West. And this is correlated with Erdogan as being an Ottoman style dictator. Their true feelings are revealed and the Turks who deny this are delusional. NATO is not Turkey's friend but rather the whore of Babylon that must be countered with S-400 and then later S-500 while a nuclear program is developed quickly. Tension with Greece and others is going to become bad while the U.S. supports Kurdish and Wahhabist terror groups to further destabilize Turkey and the region.

Yep. Very well said. This basically sums it all up.