S-400 deal should shape up the West

[cloud4000]

Well that's not something new. It has always been this case all NATO members are required to spend 2% of the GDP but somehow EU countries do not want to spend this kind of money. Many countries are not very happy with USA especially Germany after they found out USA has been spying on them too. However USA is trying to stay relevant and thus it created the Ukrainian issue as most of the EU countries were thinking NATO was not needed anymore. Germany and Russia were coming close and the latter wanted to benefit from Russia's cheap LNG. But then Crimean issue created tension between Russia and EU/NATO. However, things are getting normal again. Trump visited EU but wasn't received with any enthusiasm especially when he stressed them to spend more on defence and NATO. So I don't see that happening.

European disdain for US is nothing new. It hasn’t stopped them from enjoying benefits the US brings to Europe, especially in areas of defense. US always been insistent on Europe to pay more for its defense since the end of the Cold War and will make sure Europe keeps its promises. Trump or no Trump, the reduction of US presence in Europe is on the cards. Europe will have to come on board because they will have no choice.

Turkey has the second largest army after USA in NATO and the major country where considerable number of US/NATO's nukes are stored and it is basically at the forefront of NATO so it won't be so easy as you suggested. Erdogan is following the wishes of the brave Turk nation to act more independently like a sovereign state more inline with its glorious past. Thus, when the West (esp. USA) tried to topple him and install a puppet govt, the people took to the streets and sabotaged their plan. West is in constant pain over it. They miscalculated and now their plans have been exposed and their pawns taken to the task.

How can Turkey act independently and still meets its obligations to NATO? If Erdogan wants to follow “the wishes of the brave Turk nation” then why be a member of an organization that obligates to defend other members, especially if these same members are hostile to you, including backing a coup? It makes no sense. True, Turkey unwinding from NATO won’t be easy, or quick, but if you prize sovereignty the way Turkey does, you are willing to make this difficult choice, no?

 

[mike2000 is back]

Lol I don't see why people are so woke up about this news. I don't think it means Turkey is leaving NATO/turning away from Europe/U S or allying itself with Russia per se. People always exaggerate things on PDF. NATO is too important for Turkey to leave, same as Europe is too important for Turkey to turn against them. Turkey's military industry/doctrine standard as a while has been built following NATO criteria/standards, most of their arms also have western input/technology/base.
Europe accounts for 50% of Turkeys trade(I'm not counting the U.S) and Turkey benefits from many trade agreements with the world's largest and most prosperous economic bloc (E.U).
There is no way Turkey will suddenly turn it's back on all this, even if they wanted to they will need a long time to prepare for a divorce. Who will they turn to if they just decided to turn away from this bloc? Middle Eastern countries/Muslim world? Lol
So I think people should think wisely before parroting such boring lines. Nothing much will change apart from some periodic noise. If Turkey was to leave they would have done so long ago, they haven't because they benefit from it as well. So people should chill.

 

[Mr.Department]

making your pasta

Don't underestimate Pasta Mozarella, the standart is protected by EU

Lol I don't see why people are so woke up about this news. I don't think it means Turkey is leaving NATO/turning away from Europe/U S or allying itself with Russia per se. People always exaggerate things on PDF. NATO is too important for Turkey to leave, same as Europe is too important for Turkey to turn against them. Turkey's military industry/doctrine standard as a while has been built following NATO criteria/standards, most of their arms also have western input/technology/base.
Europe accounts for 50% of Turkeys trade(I'm not counting the U.S) and Turkey benefits from many trade agreements with the world's largest and most prosperous economic bloc (E.U).
There is no way Turkey will suddenly turn it's back on all this, even if they wanted to they will need a long time to prepare for a divorce. Who will they turn to if they just decided to turn away from this bloc? Middle Eastern countries/Muslim world? Lol
So I think people should think wisely before parroting such boring lines. Nothing much will change apart from some periodic noise. If Turkey was to leave they would have done so long ago, they haven't because they benefit from it as well. So people should chill.

Mike how are you doing ? Health ok again ? Best regards

 

[fitpOsitive]

Only weapon that Germany can make that Turkey cannot is conventional submarines.

At the rate of growth of Turkey's defence industry, by 2030 it will have a more developed sector than Germany.

Turkey should increase her research arena and attract international talent.

 

[war&peace]

European disdain for US is nothing new. It hasn’t stopped them from enjoying benefits the US brings to Europe, especially in areas of defense. US always been insistent on Europe to pay more for its defense since the end of the Cold War and will make sure Europe keeps its promises. Trump or no Trump, the reduction of US presence in Europe is on the cards. Europe will have to come on board because they will have no choice.

The basic understanding in Europe is that after the cold war, there is no real threat or enemy and thus it eliminates the need for spending too much and NATO has lost its purpose. This undermines USA's status as a superpower since EU itself is a bigger economy than USA and Euro has more value than $. If European govt are given the chance, most of them would like to spend on raising the living standards of their citizens but that does not go well with USA especially US military industrial complex (MIC). So they have to find new enemies and if they don't find, simply create some and the old cunning uncle sam is aided by the zionist Jews, who are the biggest stakeholders in MIC of USA and Israel.

So first we saw WMD, (later proven to be a blatant lie) but as the old fart uncle sam will tell the world...just an intel mistake.. yeah. (we should believe them right... because they have gospel of truth with them)

After that, uncle had nothing else to capitalise so he staged 9/11 but it was also time limited venture and finally uncle brought its master piece ISIS with direct help of his zionist helpers... and Russian involvement in Syria meant death of ISIS before uncle had planned or would like to..

so let's create some issues in Crimea..bring the most corrupt regime in power in Kiev and use them to start a friction with Russia in Crimea and portray Russia as a monster to Europeans who are always ready to be scared.

Then uncle tried to create SCS issue but it failed...the main stakeholder Duterte deserted uncle and left him in the lurch and shook hands with China...really that didn't go well with the plan..

And China has activated NK to troll our old uncle.....

Uncle is thinking... what's next..which cow to milk now that will keep NATO intact and Europeans scared enough so that they can keep paying.

 

[kartal1]

We Italians are great trolls. Remember when we put children and women in uniforms and let them march against the ottoman soldiers on a small island in the Med? Your soldiers were so stupid, they believed from afar a huge army rrived...and your soldiers ran away.

Dude the Ottoman Empire is the nation we always defeated. And you want impress me?

The only thing growing in Turkey is the Kurdish population. Who knows? Maybe in 30 years we will trade with the kurdish capital Ankara.

Can you tell me with what is this connected to the S400 deal?

 

[Pax Ottomana]

NATO is only a single entity on paper. In reality it's full of countries incapable of protecting themselves let alone others they "swear" to protect. The few that are strong enough have varying interests, goals and spheres of influence. You can't expect a Cold War era doctrine from the 1950s to serve the needs of its members forever. This is becoming more and more apparent as the world moves on and evolves into something else. NATO's founding principle has never been used by any member bar the US (following the 9/11 events) and remains to be tested. It will very likely just fall apart at the first sign of a real, tangible war with an actual global/nuclear power. And you know why! No one will want to put their necks in line for the US. This is the reason why the US constantly feels the pressure to spend more on defense than the next handful of countries combined.

 

[tesla]

The only thing growing in Turkey is the Kurdish population. Who knows? Maybe in 30 years we will trade with the kurdish capital Ankara.

empity threat

 

[Super Falcon]

Turkey is going on right path country interest comes bigger than regional

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

Europeans have a internal fear of Turks, remember since the Huns to the Ottomans they would collectively celebrate every victory they got against us, every sultan and Kagan that died would ease there tensions.

It's good to remind them of this fear sometimes, this is why they are barking mad with there anti Turk sentiments.

The fact that Turkey is being talked about these days with defence procurements is a healthy sign for us.

 

[Swezu]

That is very rich coming from a guy from Zimbabwe =

Take care of your country first.



Imagine Russia has a backdoor to the system and starts shooting 10+ NATO planes :sarcastic:

It would start world war 3, but with Turkey on the Russian side. Not a bad move.

Similar to how Germany forced us into their side in WW1, I think they sank ships.

It's very low of you to you use pictures of people who barely can afford food or education for their children to attack this guy.

 

[Mr.Department]

It's very low of you to you use pictures of people who barely can afford food or education for their children to attack this guy.

Unfortunately, we Turks get more and more offensive;
sometimes with the wrong arguments. But you know also we are tired to be insulted and humiliated;
we are a great nation with global tradition.

 

[TurkeyForever]

It's very low of you to you use pictures of people who barely can afford food or education for their children to attack this guy.

It's very poor of him to attack Turkey.

It's even more poorer of you to defend this loser.

 

[Basel]

Zimbabwe is a 3 world country sure..

But doesnt change the fact that Turkey hindsight with the chinese is screwing himself deeper with importation of russian arms

There relationship with Chinese can be restored with Pakistani help (if required).

 

[Swezu]

It's very poor of him to attack Turkey.

It's even more poorer of you to defend this loser.

I don't give a shit about him or you.