S-400 deal should shape up the West

[war&peace]

Who? Why does Iran vent when Israel does something? Same reason. Diplomatic hotair

Wrong analogy.

 

[Surenas]

Cardin: Turkey's Purchase of Russian missile system may trigger sanctions

Turkey’s recent purchase of an advanced Russian anti-air weapons system may have violated a U.S. law that would require an automatic imposition of sanctions on the NATO member, a top Democratic lawmaker said today.

The letter, sent by Maryland Sen. Ben Cardin to Trump administration officials, warns that Ankara’s purchase of Moscow’s S-400 air defense system, which finalized on Tuesday, violates congressional sanctions against Russia signed into law last month.

The legislation imposes sanctions “on any person that conducts a significant transaction with the Russian Federation’s defense or intelligence sectors,” wrote Cardin, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The Trump White House resisted the sanctions as a congressional intrusion on presidential diplomacy.

“These are mandatory sanctions and constitute a commitment by the United States to deter Russia from attacking the United States and its allies in the future,” said Cardin’s letter to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

“As a U.S. ally, it is unfortunate that Turkey has appeared to align itself with Moscow during this critical time,” Cardin added.

The S-400 is Russia’s most advanced anti-air missile system and was originally designed to intercept U.S. strategic aircraft. It has a range of nearly 250 miles and can reportedly hit 80 targets at once.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/14/turkey-russia-purchase-may-trigger-sanctions-242725

The West already threatening with sanctions.

 

[damm1t]

“As a U.S. ally, it is unfortunate that Turkey has appeared to align itself with Moscow during this critical time,” Cardin added.

Ally... Turkey is now a US ally just on paper after they are keeping F.Gülen warm and safe in Pensylvania, supporting coup and arming PKK's affilities in Syria to teeth.

 

[TurkeyForever]

Turkey at best is nothing more than an assembly plant just like India.

That is very rich coming from a guy from Zimbabwe =

Take care of your country first.

Now with regards to S-400 I hope we get it, because the Russians most certainly know how to make rockets and missiles. and It'll be good to diversify our defense systems. The only issue would probably be that our NATO allies flying in our airspace keeps getting targetted :D

But I hope of course no mistakes happen, it could be a dissaster if the S-400 ended up shooting and ally plane down.

Meanwhile any news about Hisar and our own national Air defense system would be welcome!

Imagine Russia has a backdoor to the system and starts shooting 10+ NATO planes :sarcastic:

It would start world war 3, but with Turkey on the Russian side. Not a bad move.

Similar to how Germany forced us into their side in WW1, I think they sank ships.

 

[seesonic]

That is very rich coming from a guy from Zimbabwe =

Take care of your country first.

Zimbabwe is a 3 world country sure..

But doesnt change the fact that Turkey hindsight with the chinese is screwing himself deeper with importation of russian arms

 

[TurkeyForever]

Cardin: Turkey's Purchase of Russian missile system may trigger sanctions

Turkey’s recent purchase of an advanced Russian anti-air weapons system may have violated a U.S. law that would require an automatic imposition of sanctions on the NATO member, a top Democratic lawmaker said today.

The letter, sent by Maryland Sen. Ben Cardin to Trump administration officials, warns that Ankara’s purchase of Moscow’s S-400 air defense system, which finalized on Tuesday, violates congressional sanctions against Russia signed into law last month.

The legislation imposes sanctions “on any person that conducts a significant transaction with the Russian Federation’s defense or intelligence sectors,” wrote Cardin, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The Trump White House resisted the sanctions as a congressional intrusion on presidential diplomacy.

“These are mandatory sanctions and constitute a commitment by the United States to deter Russia from attacking the United States and its allies in the future,” said Cardin’s letter to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

“As a U.S. ally, it is unfortunate that Turkey has appeared to align itself with Moscow during this critical time,” Cardin added.

The S-400 is Russia’s most advanced anti-air missile system and was originally designed to intercept U.S. strategic aircraft. It has a range of nearly 250 miles and can reportedly hit 80 targets at once.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/14/turkey-russia-purchase-may-trigger-sanctions-242725

The West already threatening with sanctions.

There we go, more proof USA is not our ally.

This is actually like a declaration of war.

Zimbabwe is a 3 world country sure..

But doesnt change the fact that Turkey hindsight with the chinese is screwing himself deeper with importation of russian arms

Yeah yeah. go build yourself a toilet.

 

[Gothic]

says who ? Greece has been operating russian airdefence for over a decade , no one in the west protests Greece .

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Cardin: Turkey's Purchase of Russian missile system may trigger sanctions

Turkey’s recent purchase of an advanced Russian anti-air weapons system may have violated a U.S. law that would require an automatic imposition of sanctions on the NATO member, a top Democratic lawmaker said today.

The letter, sent by Maryland Sen. Ben Cardin to Trump administration officials, warns that Ankara’s purchase of Moscow’s S-400 air defense system, which finalized on Tuesday, violates congressional sanctions against Russia signed into law last month.

The legislation imposes sanctions “on any person that conducts a significant transaction with the Russian Federation’s defense or intelligence sectors,” wrote Cardin, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The Trump White House resisted the sanctions as a congressional intrusion on presidential diplomacy.

“These are mandatory sanctions and constitute a commitment by the United States to deter Russia from attacking the United States and its allies in the future,” said Cardin’s letter to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

“As a U.S. ally, it is unfortunate that Turkey has appeared to align itself with Moscow during this critical time,” Cardin added.

The S-400 is Russia’s most advanced anti-air missile system and was originally designed to intercept U.S. strategic aircraft. It has a range of nearly 250 miles and can reportedly hit 80 targets at once.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/14/turkey-russia-purchase-may-trigger-sanctions-242725

The West already threatening with sanctions.

I have a few points to make regarding this nonsense.

1. This is not a UN resolution. It's a US law. Turkey is a sovereign state and is not under the jurisdiction of the US Congress. The US Congress can only make laws for US citizens and companies to follow. Their laws legally bind no one outside of the US states and territories.

2. The quoted law appears to target "persons", not "states". Thus, it likely doesn't apply to Turkey in the first place.

3. Their law, and I have to emphasize their and their alone, doesn't state what constitutes a significant transaction and is subject to interpretation.

4. White House has already dismissed it as the nonsense that it is.

5. Forcing this "law" on Turkey is unimaginable as it would only serve to make Turkey and Russia come closer and likely trigger a chain of events leading to the disintegration of NATO, given how Turkey currently fields the 2nd largest army in NATO after the US itself. Not to mention the fact that no country in NATO, including the US, can legally force another country out of NATO. Thus, NATO would find itself in the tough situation of ending up with a Russian-aligned member passing all NATO secrets over as needed. Turkey has been a NATO member for a long time (joined in 1952) and knows all the play books forwards and backwards.

 

[cloud4000]

Thus, the S-400 deal could be the beginning, not the end, of Turkey's relations with NATO and the West, if our "allied friends" care about the further recession of NATO borders and their privileges in this territory, which is the only transit route of energy lines.

This sounds like a thinly-veiled threat. Treat us better or else. Let's see how this plays out.

Idiots like Sigmar Gabriel will hasten the process of NATO's disintegration. What he does not know that there is nothing that Germany has to offer exclusively and vital enough to force Turkey to drop the deal for S-400: the best long range ADS available on the market and Germany has nothing similar to offer but all of the Germany's weapons are replaceable by indigenous as well as external sources.

NATO, in its current form, is completely outdated and needs to be revamped. Fortunately, it's headed that way. Plans are for European members to up their GDP spending on defense to 2% which will hopefully bolster their contribution to NATO and reduce dependency on US. This is the plan. How Turkey fits into all this is up in the air. Unless Turkey gets EU membership, I don't see how it can -- or wants -- to be part of a Eurocentric-focus NATO.

The thing that NATO (well, not NATO, but the big weapon-exporting countries in NATO) fear the most is that Turkey's opting for Russian hardware will set a precedent among certain other NATO members to do the same, becoming a trend.

Oh well. Sovereignty is what it is. It comes with the power to make decisions for yourself and look after for your own national interests.

So, too bad so sad. You reap what you sow! Expect others to follow Turkey's path.

No. Only Turkey will do this because Turkey wants to go in another direction compared to rest of Europe. It wants closer ties with Russia, while most of Europe abhors Russia, especially Putin. Erdogan wants Turkey to look eastward. He wants Turkey to be the vanguard of Muslim nations. I don't see this is compatible with what Europe wants.

In essence, I forsee Turkey leaving NATO eventually. It's only a matter of time.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Turkey has been looking westward for a long time. It's been wanting to join the EU for decades. But the EU, being the xenophobic Christian club that it is, doesn't want to see Turkey as an equal. EU leaders themselves say so. 80% of Germans are against Turkey joining the EU. for example, and the poll numbers are not very optimistic in the other EU countries either. Thus, Turkey has no choice but to look after its national interests by seeking alternative partnerships.

This is not to say that Turkey is completely abandoning the West, that's culturally, economically and geopolitically impossible. No. We're simply diversifying our options. Not putting all of our eggs in one basket, so to speak.

 

[Kitco]

TUI Mein Schiff does not go to Turkey anymore.

TUI Meinschiff has 4% market parts and btw cancelled Istanbul as well. With costa. Msc and Aida as well as RCL and NCL Turkey lost 92% of its cruise guests.

Hey pizza guy if you didnt know the topic is s400, not your fricking pasta coutries cruise lines. Stay on topic or f**k off.

 

[ValerioAurelius]

Hey pizza guy if you didnt know the topic is s400, not your fricking pasta coutries cruise lines. Stay on topic or f**k off.

More money is earned with pasta than with s400 thats for sure.

 

[war&peace]

NATO, in its current form, is completely outdated and needs to be revamped. Fortunately, it's headed that way. Plans are for European members to up their GDP spending on defense to 2% which will hopefully bolster their contribution to NATO and reduce dependency on US. This is the plan. How Turkey fits into all this is up in the air. Unless Turkey gets EU membership, I don't see how it can -- or wants -- to be part of a Eurocentric-focus NATO.

Well that's not something new. It has always been this case all NATO members are required to spend 2% of the GDP but somehow EU countries do not want to spend this kind of money. Many countries are not very happy with USA especially Germany after they found out USA has been spying on them too. However USA is trying to stay relevant and thus it created the Ukrainian issue as most of the EU countries were thinking NATO was not needed anymore. Germany and Russia were coming close and the latter wanted to benefit from Russia's cheap LNG. But then Crimean issue created tension between Russia and EU/NATO. However, things are getting normal again. Trump visited EU but wasn't received with any enthusiasm especially when he stressed them to spend more on defence and NATO. So I don't see that happening.

Turkey has the second largest army after USA in NATO and the major country where considerable number of US/NATO's nukes are stored and it is basically at the forefront of NATO so it won't be so easy as you suggested. Erdogan is following the wishes of the brave Turk nation to act more independently like a sovereign state more inline with its glorious past. Thus, when the West (esp. USA) tried to topple him and install a puppet govt, the people took to the streets and sabotaged their plan. West is in constant pain over it. They miscalculated and now their plans have been exposed and their pawns taken to the task.

 

[Fenasi Kerim]

More money is earned with pasta than with s400 thats for sure.

Keep making your pasta then, with the rate the Turkish defence industry is growing in 30 years from now, maybe sooner your women will be screaming mamma li turchi again in the mediterranean then your sailors can threaten us with the equivalent of military bolognese sauce.

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

your women will be screaming mamma li turchi again in the mediterranean then your sailors can threaten us with the equivalent of military bolognese sauce.

Hahhaha!