Russian shipyard to deliver third frigate to India

[Gessler]

What does kill probability have to do with size?There is no great difference in size as far as i know,so why so half numbers of missiles.How can they put 16 onkis/yakhont/klub in 4500 tonne frigate while we can put only 8 in 6200 tonne.Someone needs to answer this.

I was referring to SAMs. Coming to cruise missiles, I think Russia needs
larger number of missiles on a single boat because as per Russian naval
doctrine, it will take a large number of supersonic cruise missiles fired
concurrently from warships, SSGNs, and airborne attack aircraft to overwhelm
the defences on a US Navy carrier battle group.

IN's doctrine is different, our major threat perceptions are Pak & China,
neither of which have an operational carrier group.

Look at PLAN's Type-054A Jiangkai-II FFG, the closest thing PLAN has when
compared to Shivalik. It too carries only 8 missiles and a far lesser number of
SAMs, displacing around 4,000 tons.

054A's ASCMs are shorter ranged and less capable than BrahMos, so 8 x PJ10s
are overkill when compared to 8 x C802/803s.

Even the "destroyer-class" Type-052C Luyang-II DDG of PLAN carries only
8 missiles compared to Kolkata's 16.

Also kamorta class should really have the klub with 2200 tonne weight.Every corvette anywhere in the world today has 8 missiles,since it is ASW corvette it should have anti sub version of klub missile.They build a 2200 ton corvette with armament of 1500 tonne one.

Kamorta is meant for littoral defence against hostile subs, not to accompany
a CBG or anything, hence it was decided that ASCMs are unnecessary, it'll
make do with a 76mm and 2 x 30mm CIWS guns.

For those corvettes meant to go out at sea to fight off enemy warships, like
the P-25A Kora-class, they are equipped with 16 cruise missiles while displacing
only 1,500 tons.

As I said earlier, it all depends on the requirements.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I was referring to SAMs. Coming to cruise missiles, I think Russia needs
larger number of missiles on a single boat because as per Russian naval
doctrine, it will take a large number of supersonic cruise missiles fired
concurrently from warships, SSGNs, and airborne attack aircraft to overwhelm
the defences on a US Navy carrier battle group.

IN's doctrine is different, our major threat perceptions are Pak & China,
neither of which have an operational carrier group.

Look at PLAN's Type-054A Jiangkai-II FFG, the closest thing PLAN has when
compared to Shivalik. It too carries only 8 missiles and a far lesser number of
SAMs, displacing around 4,000 tons.

054A's ASCMs are shorter ranged and less capable than BrahMos, so 8 x PJ10s
are overkill when compared to 8 x C802/803s.

Even the "destroyer-class" Type-052C Luyang-II DDG of PLAN carries only
8 missiles compared to Kolkata's 16.



Kamorta is meant for littoral defence against hostile subs, not to accompany
a CBG or anything, hence it was decided that ASCMs are unnecessary, it'll
make do with a 76mm and 2 x 30mm CIWS guns.

For those corvettes meant to go out at sea to fight off enemy warships, like
the P-25A Kora-class, they are equipped with 16 cruise missiles while displacing
only 1,500 tons.

As I said earlier, it all depends on the requirements.

Kora class has smaller,lighter kh-35s which are far less effective.Again question,if 1500 tonne kora has 16 kh-35 why does flagship delhi class have same armament?

Kamorta is way oversized in tonnage for its weapons fit if it won't use any surface attack missile.Its ASW ship,so whats stopping it from using 8 klub anti submarine version?Instead they rely on 5-8 km RBU-6000 grenade launcher,its obsolete philosophy...IN needs to understand they will never get close enough to use this system against subs with 50 km torpedos and 200 km ASCMs.We need dedicated ASROC or RPK-9 medevdka like 50 km plus rocket missiles instead of this old ww2 hedgehog style system.

Is IN putting deliberate limits on itself just to match PLAN or PN and not stretching its ship to the limit to surpass them?The thing that a 4500 tonne frigate can have 16 of the same missile while 6200 tonne has half that number is unpardonable.If they are using old VLS they need to change it ASAP.

And why is our doctrine different than russian in terms of salvo firing of supersonic ASCMs,it seems perfectly viable strategy.
I better hope follow on talwars have new VLS to accomodate more missiles.For god's sake 2200 tonne tigr/stereguschy class corvette can use 8 oniks as an option.

Shivalik may compete with any frigate in the world,but admiral gorshkov/stereguschy class is setting new benchmark for weapons load...since russia is our friend i don't understand why IN can't take a few hints.
We should always compete and aspire with the best in any sector,not just satisfied with mediocre just because current threat perception is mediocre.16 ASCMs have much more chance to saturate enemy defences than 8.
And we need to replace this RBU-6000 system ASAP.Waste of space.

 

[Gessler]

Kora class has smaller,lighter kh-35s which are far less effective.Again question,if 1500 tonne kora has 16 kh-35 why does flagship delhi class have same armament?

Kamorta is way oversized in tonnage for its weapons fit if it won't use any surface attack missile.Its ASW ship,so whats stopping it from using 8 klub anti submarine version?Instead they rely on 5-8 km RBU-6000 grenade launcher,its obsolete philosophy...IN needs to understand they will never get close enough to use this system against subs with 50 km torpedos and 200 km ASCMs.We need dedicated ASROC or RPK-9 medevdka like 50 km plus rocket missiles instead of this old ww2 hedgehog style system.

Is IN putting deliberate limits on itself just to match PLAN or PN and not stretching its ship to the limit to surpass them?The thing that a 4500 tonne frigate can have 16 of the same missile while 6200 tonne has half that number is unpardonable.If they are using old VLS they need to change it ASAP.

And why is our doctrine different than russian in terms of salvo firing of supersonic ASCMs,it seems perfectly viable strategy.
I better hope follow on talwars have new VLS to accomodate more missiles.For god's sake 2200 tonne tigr/stereguschy class corvette can use 8 oniks as an option.

Shivalik may compete with any frigate in the world,but admiral gorshkov/stereguschy class is setting new benchmark for weapons load...since russia is our friend i don't understand why IN can't take a few hints.
We should always compete and aspire with the best in any sector,not just satisfied with mediocre just because current threat perception is mediocre.16 ASCMs have much more chance to saturate enemy defences than 8.
And we need to replace this RBU-6000 system ASAP.Waste of space.

The RBUs may be gone by the time P-17A or P-15B come out...but try as I might, I can find no hint
that any future Talwar is going to have enhanced weapon capacity. Russians may include it on
Talwar-class if IN asks and pays for them, but IN is not looking at that.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Ok it seems gorshkov may actually have only 8 klub/brahmos[fail me for trusting wiki],though number of sams is still higher.Makes me feel a LOT better.

Also on Prasun sengupta's blog he said,RBU-6000 is not only for sub hunting,its to '' but for disrupting the target lock-on mechanisms (like active terminal seeker or wire-guidance)''.What does THAT mean?

Kamorta is still undergunned though,even if its meant for coastal water patrol.8 anti sub version of klub would have been very welcome addition.

 

[cirr]

Lead Ship has already finished sea trials last yr.Delay was due to integration of barak 8.Induction this yr.
2nd ship and 3rd ship next yr.

Finished sea trial last year?

Got any pics?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Finished sea trial last year?

Got any pics?

None released.But sea trials were successful.Indian defence magazines reported it.
Kochi and chennai the other 2 ships will undergo sea trials this yr.