Russian shipyard to deliver third frigate to India

[Gessler]

Having AEGIS on couple of upgraded shivaliks could be a option if we can work out agreement with USA,if kolkata class doesn't have cooperative threat engagement ability.Another option is british sampson/astor system in type 45 destroyers.In any case with such a huge surface fleet we need serious fleet air defence with dediacted air defence ships,IN right now concentartes much on anti surface and anti ship duty but with threat of chinese CBGs and pakistan getting air launched cruise missiles we now need robust ability of thsi type,and i mean the very best.Loss of any major surface warship is huge blow to prestige and morale.

Before wanting something like AEGIS, we need to analyze whether the capabilities offered by
that system suite our needs or not.

If you ask me, CMS-17 for Shivalik/P-17A and MEDINA for P-15A will be sufficient.
The AESA MF-STAR and Barak-2 SAM have ample ability against anti-ship missiles of all
sorts. No need for AEGIS.

 

[Gessler]

MF-STAR and BARAK NG looks promising enough right now. And Shivaliks already have that combination and the upgradation will involve the integration of the Barak MR SAM.

And Shivalik is a frigate intended to fight other ships and subs. And most of it's air defence weaponry will only be for self protection. So I still think having a air defence destroyer is the way to go for fleet defence.

Shivalik is armed with 8 x cruise missiles (Klub or BrahMos) and 56 x SAMs, and it has a good
3-D radar. It's simply one of the most well-armed FFGs out there.

And the P-17A will come with Barak-2 SAM with longer range and more kill probability, and
upgraded Brahmos missiles, with an AESA radar. That's enough to give any frigate in the entire
world a run for it's money.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I'm not doubting the shivalik class at all,its a superb ship with all round capability.[although it should carry 16 cruise missiles,and more sams at 6200 tonnes if admiral gorshkov class at 4500 tonnes can carry 16 oniks and 112 sams]What i'm saying is we need at least 1 Dedicated fleet defence destroyer for AIR defence only per CBG.IN needs to look at fleet defence more closely with huge expansion of surface fleet.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Also why is IN persisting with systems like RBU-6000 on all ships?Its 5km range vs subs is near useless in modern warfare imo.It should move on to 50-60 km weapons ASROC type weapons or simply replace that space with VLS cells for more punch.

The new PAKET anti torpedo torpedo package should also be considered for our dedicated anti submarine platforms.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Also why is IN persisting with systems like RBU-6000 on all ships?Its 5km range vs subs is near useless in modern warfare imo.It should move on to 50-60 km weapons ASROC type weapons or simply replace that space with VLS cells for more punch.

The new PAKET anti torpedo torpedo package should also be considered for our dedicated anti submarine platforms.

There are Anti-Sub Uran/Klub missiles. Apart from that ship-borne Helicopters (usually two of them) with their own weapon fits. The RBUs are the 'last-line' ASW weapons; something like CIWS.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

But in modern warfare with torpedo range around 50 km and missile range over 200kms whats the point in useless 5km offensive weapon?Its waste of space.US NAVY has long moved on to ASROC with much larger range and so has russian navy with RPK-9 medvedka and specialized anti sub missiles.In showing obsolete mentality here.

We also need to understand from russians how they can pack so much firepower in so small tonnage.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

But in modern warfare with torpedo range around 50 km and missile range over 200kms whats the point in useless 5km offensive weapon?Its waste of space.US NAVY has long moved on to ASROC with much larger range and so has russian navy with RPK-9 medvedka and specialized anti sub missiles.In showing obsolete mentality here.

We also need to understand from russians how they can pack so much firepower in so small tonnage.

There are many PLUSES and MINUSES of that Design Doctrine. We have already found that for ourselves.

 

[SR-91]

Guys got to know Kolkata class is 8000 tons! Whoa!

163-meter, 8,000-ton Project 15A Kolkata-class destroyers with an advanced Elta MF-STAR multifunction radar and the new Indo-Israeli Barak 8 long range surface to air missile (LRSAM), also from MDL, and;

Project 15b will make project 15a look like a dwarf.

 

[Echo_419]

IN is arming up fast it just needs to focus more on Subs & mine sweepers

 

[Gessler]

I'm not doubting the shivalik class at all,its a superb ship with all round capability.[although it should carry 16 cruise missiles,and more sams at 6200 tonnes if admiral gorshkov class at 4500 tonnes can carry 16 oniks and 112 sams]What i'm saying is we need at least 1 Dedicated fleet defence destroyer for AIR defence only per CBG.IN needs to look at fleet defence more closely with huge expansion of surface fleet.

I can tell at least from the perspective of the SAMs that hit/kill probability matters more than numbers.

When it comes to defense against in-bound ASCMs, the Barak-1 is a lot better than any Russian close-range
SAM system on offer. A smaller number of missiles can compensate with better ph/pk.

Project 15b will make project 15a look like a dwarf.

Well I'm sure it will have much enhanced capabilities but AFAIK there won't be much difference
when it comes to gross tonnage.

 

[Gessler]

Guys got to know Kolkata class is 8000 tons! Whoa!

163-meter, 8,000-ton Project 15A Kolkata-class destroyers with an advanced Elta MF-STAR multifunction radar and the new Indo-Israeli Barak 8 long range surface to air missile (LRSAM), also from MDL, and;

Well I did anticipate this. After all the P-15 Delhi-class DDG which P-15A succeeds already displaces upto
7,000 tons. So when they said P-15A will displace 7,000 tons as well, I didn't believe it.

IN has a habit of downplaying the tonnage of their forthcoming main surface combatants to keep
the opponents guessing.

The Shivalik, for example, was said to be around 4,000-4,500 tons when in construction, turned
out to be 6,200 tons. Same will happen to P-15A too.

Btw, any link for your source? Or is it offline info?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I can tell at least from the perspective of the SAMs that hit/kill probability matters more than numbers.

When it comes to defense against in-bound ASCMs, the Barak-1 is a lot better than any Russian close-range
SAM system on offer. A smaller number of missiles can compensate with better ph/pk.



Well I'm sure it will have much enhanced capabilities but AFAIK there won't be much difference
when it comes to gross tonnage.

What does kill probability have to do with size?There is no great difference in size as far as i know,so why so half numbers of missiles.How can they put 16 onkis/yakhont/klub in 4500 tonne frigate while we can put only 8 in 6200 tonne.Someone needs to answer this.

There are many PLUSES and MINUSES of that Design Doctrine. We have already found that for ourselves.

What are the pluses and minuses.

Also kamorta class should really have the klub with 2200 tonne weight.Every corvette anywhere in the world today has 8 missiles,since it is ASW corvette it should have anti sub version of klub missile.They build a 2200 ton corvette with armament of 1500 tonne one.

 

[SR-91]

I can tell at least from the perspective of the SAMs that hit/kill probability matters more than numbers.

When it comes to defense against in-bound ASCMs, the Barak-1 is a lot better than any Russian close-range
SAM system on offer. A smaller number of missiles can compensate with better ph/pk.




Well I'm sure it will have much enhanced capabilities but AFAIK there won't be much difference
when it comes to gross tonnage.

Russia to help India build 4 guided-missile destroyers | Russia & India Report

 

[cirr]

What's the latest on the Kolkata Class？

It's been sheaves of years since the ships were floated out。

Still rusting away in the rubbish dump that's known as shipyard in India？

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

What's the latest on the Kolkata Class？

It's been sheaves of years since the ships were floated out。

Still rusting away in the rubbish dump that's known as shipyard in India？

Lead Ship has already finished sea trials last yr.Delay was due to integration of barak 8.Induction this yr.
2nd ship and 3rd ship next yr.