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Russian military contractors reportedly tried to test the US military in Syria, but they got whooped

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More details have emerged from a massive battle in Syria that is said to have pitted hundreds of Russian military contractors and forces loyal to the Syrian government against the US and its Syrian rebel allies — and it looks as if it was a mission to test the US's resolve.

Bloomberg first reported this week that Russian military contractors took part in what the US called an "unprovoked attack" on a well-known headquarters of the Syrian Democratic Forces, a rebel cohort the US has trained, equipped, and fought alongside for years.

Reuters cited several sources on Friday as confirming that Russian contractors were among the attackers and that they took heavy losses. The purpose of the attack, which saw 500 or so pro-government fighters get close to the US-backed position in Syria, was to test the US's response, Reuters' sources said.

How the battle played out

Initial reports said pro-government forces launched a coordinated attack that included about 500 troops, 122mm howitzers, tanks, and multiple launch rocket systems.

A source close to Wagner, the Russian military contracting firm, told Reuters that most of the troops were Russian contractors and that they advanced into a zone designated as neutral under a deal between the Russian military and the US-led coalition against the terrorist group ISIS.

The troops reportedly sought to find out how the US would react to the encroachment into that zone.

Forces operating Russian-made T-55 and T-72 tanks fired 20 to 30 tank rounds within 500 feet of the SDF base, which held some US troops, said Dana White, the Pentagon press secretary, according to the executive editor of Defense One.

The US-led coalition responded with "AC-130 gunships, F-15s, F-22s, Army Apache helicopter gunships, and Marine Corps artillery," according to Lucas Tomlinson, a Fox News reporter. CNN also reported that Himars and MQ-9 drones were used in the attack.

"First of all, the bombers attacked, and then they cleaned up using Apaches," attack helicopters, Yevgeny Shabayev, a Cossack paramilitary leader with ties to Russia's military contractors, told Reuters.

The Reuters report cites an unnamed source as describing Bloomberg's report that 300 Russians died as "broadly correct."

The US reported more than 100 dead. According to Reuters, Russia says only five of its citizens may have died in the attack.

The Pentagon says only one SDF fighter was injured in the attack.

What might the Russians have learned from the 'test'?

The pro-government forces operated without air cover from Russia's military. The US-led coalition apparently warned Russia of the attack, but it's unclear whether Russia's military passed on notice to the troops on the ground.

"The warning was 20 minutes beforehand," a source told Reuters. "In that time, it was not feasible to turn the column around."

Reports have increasingly indicated that Russia has used military contractors as a means of concealing its combat losses as it looks to bolster Syrian President Bashar Assad's flagging forces. Russia has denied it has a large ground presence in Syria and has sought to distance itself from those it describes as independent contractors.

According to the news website UAWire, Igor Girkin, the former defense minister of the self-described Donetsk People's Republic, a separatist region backed by Russia in eastern Ukraine, said last week that Russian mercenaries operating in Syria who died in combat were cremated on sight to hide the true cost of Russia's involvement.

As the US's stated mission in Syria of fighting ISIS nears completion, others have taken center stage. The US recently said it would seek to stop Iran from gaining control of a land bridge to Lebanon, its ally, citing concerns that Tehran would arm anti-US and anti-Israeli Hezbollah militants if given the chance.

The US also appears intent on staying on top of Assad's oilfields in the east both to deny him the economic infrastructure to regain control of the country and to force UN-sanctioned elections.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-mercenaries-testing-us-lost-300-troops-reports-2018-2
 
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This is like the 3rd of 4 thread about this BS. Spare everyone the Team America BS and all these unnamed sources.


A small contingent of Russian special forces with Syrian allies took Palmyra, Aleppo and dozens of other towns, villages and areas with literally a few casualties from the Russian side. The US and it allies shit themselves in Faluja with 800+ killed and wounded despite heavy tank, artillery and aircraft support fighting rag tag fighters.
 
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Erdogen : No such event took place ! Right Comrad?
Putin : Not sure , as we were busy Liberating More Land
dzsnc9w9-1414684434.jpg



Don't Make the BEAR angry

1 Big Paw from Bear is enough to bring down the Eagle
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31C2F81400000578-0-image-a-87_1456923051707.jpg
 
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This is like the 3rd of 4 thread about this BS. Spare everyone the Team America BS and all these unnamed sources.
This story is BS because you don't like the outcome? Don't let your nationality cloud your judgement.

This was a real incident and there is lot of evidence on the web. However, this fight was lopsided in the sense that this Russian force fought in the absence of air cover. Russian Air Force did not partake in this clash.

A small contingent of Russian special forces with Syrian allies took Palmyra, Aleppo and dozens of other towns, villages and areas with literally a few casualties from the Russian side.
Russian Air Force blasted rebel-held regions to ruins since 2015, killing many civilians in the process. Rebels stood no chance against the combined might of ISIS, SSA and Russia over the course of years.

Based on what has transpired in Syrian since 2011, these gains are really late. Easy to sweep through ghost towns now.

The US and it allies shit themselves in Faluja with 800+ killed and wounded despite heavy tank, artillery and aircraft support fighting rag tag fighters.
800+ killed? From where you draw this figure?

Operation Phantom Fury
is a masterpiece of operation in an urban environment. FYI: https://sa.rochester.edu/jur/issues/fall2007/chang.pdf (Chinese author)

You should compare a major MOUT operation with another. Towards this end, Russian experiences in Grozny shall be compared to American experiences in Fallujah:

"Although the use of armored vehicles had great success in Fallujah and other Iraqi cities, armors are not necessarily invincible in MOUT, as evidenced by the Russian attack on the Chechen city of Grozny on 31 December 1994. The 131st “Maikop” Brigade was the first unit to enter the center part of the city. There was no initial Chechen resistance when Russians entered the city at noon. The Russian infantry then dismounted from the vehicles and moved into the local train station. The armored vehicles were parked along the streets as a reserve force. The Chechens suddenly started firing rocketpropelled grenades (RPGs) from the roofs and basements of nearby buildings. The Chechens first destroyed the lead and rear vehicles to block the street with wreckage. The Russian armor column were trapped in the street and hopeless as the tanks could not point their guns either high or low enough to fire at the Chechens, and the infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) and armored personnel carriers (APCs) failed to support the tanks. By the time the brigade managed to break away from the city, the Russians had lost almost 800 men, 20 out of their 26 tanks, and 102 of their 120 other armored vehicles.47 The Russian experience is a perfect example of the consequences when the armor and infantry fail to coordinate in a combined arms operation in an urban environment. During the Cold War, Russians also forgot their World War II MOUT experience of Stalingrad and Berlin. It took the Russians a total of five years to remember the history and to develop equipment and tactics specifically based on their experiences in World War II and Grozny. In 1999, Russia retook Chechnya with combined arms tactics.48"
 
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This story is BS because you don't like the outcome? Don't let your nationality cloud your judgement.

This was a real incident and there is lot of evidence on the web. However, this fight was lopsided in the sense that this Russian force fought in the absence of air cover and/or Russian Air Force was not willing to engage USAF.



I don't indulge in tabloid stories and unnamed sources. Also what Russian forces? Some of the guys were old enough to be your grandpa. Still cute how people pretend that they were Russian soldiers. No one is doubting some Russians were killed even Russia knowledges it but they only know of 5 Russians killed. The "reports"of the deaths are a circus, some sources claim close to 100 some claim 300, clearly someone is lying or pulling random numbers of their their ***. The problem with the sources is that they are by people that are not even in Syria, nor do those sources have any known verifiable connections to Syria...basically we are told to believe that some guy knows some guy but that guy is anonymous.






Prior to retaking these cities, Russian Air Force blasted them to ruins since 2015, killing many civilians in the process. Rebels stools no chance against the combined might of ISIS, SSA and Russia.




Yea and I'm sure the US dropped flowers during WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Syria.


Allepo had thousands of enemy fighters before it was stormed and thousands more tried to break through to reinforce the their besieged jihadist brothers but were repulsed by the Russian Air Force and special forces.



These gains are not a big deal after a span of 2 years of non-stop combat.




Compared to what? The US, Britain and dozens of other countries can barely control a small part of Afghanistan after 17 years.




800+ killed? From where you draw this figure?



I said killed and wounded. The US, UK and Iraq suffered over 800 casualties in the second battle of Faluja.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah
 
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This is like the 3rd of 4 thread about this BS. Spare everyone the Team America BS and all these unnamed sources.
Story is confirmed. Among 100% confirmed casualties there are SAA, ISIS hunters, Liwa al Bakir and Russian mercenaries.

A small contingent of Russian special forces with Syrian allies took Palmyra
Palmyra with couple hundreds rag tag bedoins was stormed by swarms of Iranian Shia mercenaries with help of US air force.

East Aleppo was a deal with Turkey.

and dozens of other towns, villages and areas with literally a few casualties from the Russian side.
1) Russian casualties are secret, especially Russian mercenaries.
2) Russians ground troops did not take whatsoever role. All done by Iranian mercenaries (20 Iraqi militias, Fetemiyiun, Zaynabioun, Hezbollah).

The US and it allies shit themselves in Faluja with 800+ killed and wounded despite heavy tank, artillery and aircraft support fighting rag tag fighters.
US took Fallujah quite easily, unlike Russia which lost 12,000 fighters in tiny Chechnya and now pays ransom to Chechen warlord which killed Russian soldiers.
 
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Russia should deploy nuclear-tipped Iskander missiles to Syria. 'Murica is starting to act up again.
 
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50 Mig/Sukhoi with Syrian Airforce / and 60 similar craft with Iran should effectively put cold water over any US goals in region
 
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Asw,
They come to our defence forums and make fun of Pakistanis and Indians on why they troll each other on petty issues like some skirmishes on LOC . Now look at these threads do you see any difference? Threads popping up as if whole Russia is conquered.
Truth is that arrogance, jingoism, haughtiness has no colour or nationality.
But they will learn the hard way. History always repeats itself. Its we weaklings who don't learn from it.
Thanks,
Adnan
 
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I don't indulge in tabloid stories and unnamed sources. Also what Russian forces? Some of the guys were old enough to be your grandpa. Still cute how people pretend that they were Russian soldiers.
You were expecting Russian civilians to fight in Syria? Does not make sense. Individuals, who have served in Russian military at some capacity, are [logically] expected to fight in Syria.

Decent explanation in this article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...enaries-in-syria-buried-quietly-and-forgotten

"While the numbers remain unclear, a picture is emerging of some of those believed to have died; some were battle-hardened veterans of Moscow’s war in eastern Ukraine, inspired to travel to Syria by patriotism or a resurgent sense of Russian nationalism. Others were simply hoping for a lucrative payday.

All were, according to multiple sources, employed by the Wagner Group, a shadowy Kremlin-linked private military contractor. Critics say Moscow uses mercenaries from Wagner to keep official military losses in Syria low. The official Russian army death toll in Syria last year was sixteen soldiers, although dozens of mercenaries are believed to have died."


Russian sources are corroborating Western reports in isolation:

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russian-state-media-self-censor-casualty-reports-syria-60534
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-300-killed-and-wounded-sources-idUSKCN1FZ2DZ

No one is doubting some Russians were killed even Russia knowledges it but they only know of 5 Russians killed. The "reports"of the deaths are a circus, some sources claim close to 100 some claim 300, clearly someone is lying or pulling random numbers of their their ***. The problem with the sources is that they are by people that are not even in Syria, nor do those sources have any known verifiable connections to Syria...basically we are told to believe that some guy knows some guy but that guy is anonymous.



See above.

Yea and I'm sure the US dropped flowers during WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Syria.
If your intent is to compare MOUT operations, then this comparison should be drawn in a sensible manner.

US-led forces overcame [country-wide] Iraqi defenses in a span of only 21 days in 2003 (i.e. Operation Iraqi Freedom); arguably the greatest demonstration of Blitzkrieg in history. During the course of this invasion, numerous MOUT occurred and each was brilliantly executed. American Thunder Run tactics to secure Baghdad are noteworthy in particular.

Ba'athists (and their allies) regrouped in Fallujah in 2014, turning this city into a no-go area with relevant preparations, arrangements and fortifications. US-led forces tested the resolve of this fresh bout of resistance in a operation code-named Vigilant Resolve and subsequently routed it from Fallujah in a span of 15 days in another operation code-named Phantom Fury. The latter operation was brilliantly executed - a masterpiece of MOUT.

Now, each war is different. Syrian Civil War has manifested in a vastly different manner than the aforementioned events. This war started in 2011 and rebellion gained momentum in 2012; rebels were making advances in different parts of the country. Then ISIS emerged and swept through large parts of Syria during the period (2013 - 2014); ISIS splintered the [original] rebellion and it lost its momentum subsequently. Syrian regime finally saw an opening and capitalized on it. Russia intervened in this conflict in 2015 on behalf of Syrian regime and began to bomb rebel-held regions since.

Clashes in Aleppo began in 2011 and Syrian regime experienced its first breakthrough in this operation in 2016 (M/o December) with substantial Russian assistance. FYI: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-battle-for-syrias-aleppo-city-idUSKBN1412BO

MOUT in Aleppo is one of the worst demonstrations of its kind in history, IMO.

Allepo had thousands of enemy fighters before it was stormed and thousands more tried to break through to reinforce the their besieged jihadist brothers but were repulsed by the Russian Air Force and special forces.
Russian forces managed to soften resistance in Aleppo in a span of 2 years; not impressive, IMO. Bear in mind the impact of ISIS on the organization/cohesion of rebels in Syria since 2013.

Compared to what? The US, Britain and dozens of other countries can barely control a small part of Afghanistan after 17 years.
Don't be naive, and I see no point in highlighting Afghanistan in this discussion. Again, no war is identical in its realities.

Afghanistan is in a perpetual state of war since 1960s. Soviets intervened in 1979 but withdrew their forces in 1989 because their campaign was a disaster. Americans intervened in 2001 in order to eradicate Al-Qaeda Network in this region [mission accomplished] but Taliban has endured because it is deeply entrenched in Afghan society. However, Americans retain their presence in Afghanistan to prevent collapse of modern Afghan government and to appease their Military Industrial Complex*: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/air-...-up-taliban-fight.540686/page-2#post-10202058

*Western sources corroborate my theory: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/whitehouse-trump-afghanistan-economy-1.4258762

I said killed and wounded. The US, UK and Iraq suffered over 800 casualties in the second battle of Faluja.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah
Fair.

However, only 95 American troops perished in this MOUT.
 
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Story is confirmed. Among 100% confirmed casualties there are SAA, ISIS hunters, Liwa al Bakir and Russian mercenaries.




That is what I said before.



Palmyra with couple hundreds rag tag bedoins was stormed by swarms of Iranian Shia mercenaries with help of US air force.



Palmyra was held by ISIS, the US also never gave any air support to retake Palmyra, on the contrary they bombed Syrian positions.



East Aleppo was a deal with Turkey.



When you lose all the battles in Aleppo and get whipped out you are in no position to make any deals.

The only part Turkey had in Aleppo was it helped supply jihadists via the Castelo road but that road was cut off by Syrian forces, soon after there was a large jihadist counter attack that took place in Aleppo. Turkey had no role whatsoever, the jihadists were whipped out and turned into fertilizer while battling government forces for the 1070 housing projects, the military academy and 3000 projects, etc.

Turkey literally had zero role in any "deals" and the "rebels" died by the thousands and eventually got encircle and destroyed. They literally ran out of fighters.



1) Russian casualties are secret, especially Russian mercenaries.



Stop with the tinfoil propaganda conspiracies for once, Russia has revealed all their casualties which even included a high ranking general and a special forces officers. If they were hiding casualties they would not reveal that such important figures were killed.



2) Russians ground troops did not take whatsoever role.



I had this conversation with you before and posted pictures and videos of Russian special forces in Allepo during the fighting. You are literally just making up lies and in a clear state of denial.

Here it is again. They are actually shown killing jihadists in the video so your previous excuse of "they only came after the fighting" is totally dismissed.




Russian special force soldier with Hezbollah chevron next to dead jihadists.....yep no Russian soldiers in Aleppo.

IMG_3756.JPG


But please continue living in denial and repeating the same lies which can easily by debunked which in turn makes you look like a fool.





US took Fallujah quite easily, unlike Russia which lost 12,000 fighters in tiny Chechnya now pays ransom to Chechen warlord which killed Russian soldiers.



The Chechen war took place in:


Chechnya 17,300 km

Degestan 50,300 km

Inguishtia 3,000 km



For comparison: Israel 20,770 km



"Tiny" Chechen war was fought in a region 3 times the size of Israel.

The Chechen war was also fought in mountainous areas as well as cities and in dense fog, snow, windstorms, ice storms and in minimal daylight. Faluja was in a flat dessert with perfect weather.



now pays ransom to Chechen warlord which killed Russian soldiers.


He is a puppet. The fact that you think he has any power is cute. The FSB can dispose of him anytime.
 

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That is what I said before.
You called it BS.

Palmyra was held by ISIS, the US also never gave any air support to retake Palmyra, on the contrary they bombed Syrian positions.
Here examples of US strikes against ISIS at Palmyra, which greatly helped Assadists.



When you lose all the battles in Aleppo and get whipped out you are in no position to make any deals.

The only part Turkey had in Aleppo was it helped supply jihadists via the Castelo road but that road was cut off by Syrian forces, soon after there was a large jihadist counter attack that took place in Aleppo. Turkey had no role whatsoever, the jihadists were whipped out and turned into fertilizer while battling government forces for the 1070 housing projects, the military academy and 3000 projects, etc.

Turkey literally had zero role in any "deals" and the "rebels" died by the thousands and eventually got encircle and destroyed. They literally ran out of fighters.
Yes, Assadist army which could not take tiny Jobar in 6 years suddenly took East Aleppo in one months and this with very little air strikes. No deal :lol:

Turkey in same time exactly entered in Al Bab. No Deal :lol:

Maybe in Idlin there was no deal too? Here map publushed in September 2017:


And thats what happened 4 months later.

Stop with the tinfoil propaganda conspiracies for once, Russia has revealed all their casualties which even included a high ranking general and a special forces officers. If they were hiding casualties they would not reveal that such important figures were killed.
There is a law in Russia which forbids revealing loses. Loss of general is something that hard to hide, but regular soldiers - no one gives a damn about them in Russia. And surelly no one cares about mercenaries.

I had this conversation with you before and posted pictures and videos of Russian special forces in Allepo during the fighting. You are literally just making up lies and in a clear state of denial.
Here is a proof that Sylvester Stalone won war in Afghanistan:

rambo-iii-rambo-iii-anne-1988-usa-sylvester-stallone-ralisateur-peter-B7WKAD.jpg


:lol:

You also dont understand that u contradict yourself. You claim that Russians suffered only 40 loses total. That means they could not play whatsoever role in the offensive. Shia mercenaries and Assadists often lose 40 soldiers a day.

The Chechen war took place in:


Chechnya 17,300 km

Degestan 50,300 km

Inguishtia 3,000 km
What matters is population. Chechnya population is about 1 million, which is very little. In Dagestan there were couple villages just.

The Chechen war was also fought in mountainous areas as well as cities and in dense fog, snow, windstorms, ice storms and in minimal daylight. Faluja was in a flat dessert with perfect weather.
The overwhelming majority of Chechen population is located in flat plain. Most of battles and casualties were there. In mountains there are few small villages thats about it.

He is a puppet. The fact that you think he has any power is cute. The FSB can dispose of him anytime.
Russian population was ethnically cleansed from Chechnya and never came back.
Russia pays hundreds of millions of ransom to Chehcnya.
Of course u cant dispose him.
 
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Putin will view this as the ultimate purpose of his life's work -- give USA a bloody nose they will write about in history books! Russia will have revenge for a cowardly American air attack in the middle of ceasefire!
 
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You called it BS.



I said that some Russian mercineries were killed along with many other fighters.



Here examples of US strikes against ISIS at Palmyra, which greatly helped Assadists.






And Syrian soldiers were mowed down in Palmyra by US aircraft and then their positions overran by ISIS.






Yes, Assadist army which could not take tiny Jobar in 6 years suddenly took East Aleppo in one months and this with very little air strikes. No deal :lol:

Turkey in same time exactly entered in Al Bab. No Deal :lol:




I didn't think you can sink lower but you always do. Before you were crying how Assad and Russia crushed your beloved rebels and now you are implying that those "rebels" made some phantom deal when in reality they attacked with everything they had and they attacked by the thousands, by using over a dozen VBIEDs and dozens of tanks and artillery.



You know little about Aleppo, again the Castello road which the "rebels" used for supplies and reinforcements was cut and then fierce fighting took place in the 1070 projects, 3000 projects and military academy, the battles around those areas involved thousands of fighters, and prior to that government forces slowly started a partial encirclement of the city.

Those phantom "deals" are worth less then toilet paper :lol:





You also dont understand that u contradict yourself. You claim that Russians suffered only 40 loses total. That means they could not play whatsoever role in the offensive. Shia mercenaries and Assadists often lose 40 soldiers a day.



That is because they use highly trained special forces. Special forces usually don't suffer very many casualties because they are given top training, intelligence and equipment and they either conduct special operations such as going after high priority targets or they are tasked with achieving Special tasks such as ambushes or recon. Special forces will often stay far from the battle by using snipers or call in airstrikes or set up ambushes often times at night.




What matters is population. Chechnya population is about 1 million, which is very little. In Dagestan there were couple villages just.



Population has little to do with anything. Many of the fighters in the Chechen war came from other parts of Russia including Degestan, Inguishtia, and Chechnya as well as other areas. Many of the terrorists were also Arab or from former Soviet republics such as Kazakhstan, they even came from places like Turkey, etc.




The overwhelming majority of Chechen population is located in flat plain. Most of battles and casualties were there. In mountains there are few small villages thats about it.




You literally are talking nonsense.


Most battles were in the forests and rural mountainous regions. Abu Al-Wald, shamil Basaev, Al-Khatab, etc were all killed in the forests.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Battles_of_the_Second_Chechen_War

Height 776

Battle Vendeno

Nozran raid




Russian population was ethnically cleansed from Chechnya and never came back.
Russia pays hundreds of millions of ransom to Chehcnya.
Of course u cant dispose him.



Yea Russia can't get rid of the puppet they installed :lol: but they have one of the largest militaries, they can assasinate Chechen separatists, poison foreign leaders and help gain control of Syria but yep they can't do anything about a puppet they installed. Kadroyev must be god or have super power if Russia can't eliminate him.
 
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