The Russians can see how the Ukrainian regime has made russhophobic Nazi references socially acceptable (while sidelining others), and they react accordingly to this provocative affront.
Indoctrinated Ukrainians are discovering that doing the west's dirty work, threatening Russia's immediate security and depriving local Russian communities of their rights will come at a price.
There was no one actually threathening russias security. In 2008 Nato accession was still far off with even the MAP off the table. It was closer eu ties that got russia to invade in 2014 and heavily back and run their seperatist statelets. Talk about meddling there….
Ukraine has been dogged by corruption scandals, economic mismanagement, and Russian interference since it achieved independence in 1991. Russian threats have intensified as Ukraine's ties with the United States and Europe have improved in recent years.
www.pbs.org
Who has followed Russia in recognising the Moscow-backed statelets in Ukraine? And what is life like there?
www.aljazeera.com
Ukraine then slid further away from russia camp. Instead of diplomacy with a europe warming up again, it chose violence…a recurring theme seen in eastern europe…
Could not find a statement where Putin outlines an agenda to restore the borders of the USSR in these sources.
Plenty of statements how ukraine is not really a nation state and they are “one” and whatnot.
What a catastrophe the end of the soviet union was.
Could you imagine the germans talking like that? Everybody would get nervous again and rightly so.
The USSR was far wider than just Russia and Ukraine. As for Ukraine, I indicated how the regime in Kiev did everything in its power to forego a peaceful solution, and how the security stakes for Russia are on a completely different level than what the US was facing when it decided to bomb Iraq, Syria, Libya etc.
Russia hardly did everything in its power to reach a peacefull solution. Its really a repetition of history we saw with eastern germany, poland, chech, hungary etc. Russian heavyhanded meddling, pressure, and eventually agression.
Not in an unprovoked manner. Not out of expansionist leanings but out of a defensive calculus, whether we like it or not.
I admit that russia can feel somewhat pushed. This whole matter has been handled poorly diplomatically. With america ofcourse pushing and pushing.
Annexing land from a sovereign neighbour is expanding however.
Rename itself, completely change its institutional and political system, its economic system and so on.
It changed system but is ruled by a kgb dictator that denies statehood from certain neighbours, never admitted soviet faults, wants to “reclaim lands” and sees the dissolution of the soviet union as a catastrophe.
Ukraine had good cause to be nervous, and whaddaya know. They got invaded by russia going all soviet style on them.
“a fox might lose its hair but not its character” is a dutch expression.
And, for the analogy to be accurate Iran would have to take advantage of American weakness in order to integrate Cuba and Mexico into a defensive alliance under her leadership, hold wargames in those countries, run secret bio labs there, hold talks with Canada to join the alliance, stage two consecutive "color revolutions" in Ottowa to install rabid anti-American movements into power, who would then proceed to suppressing the rights of local citizens with American roots.
Oh, and Iran would have to be armed with several thousand nuclear weapons to boot. Any attempt by the new American regime to push back on those hostile forces in Canada would be misconstrued by Iranian propaganda as "a return to the old ways", an awakening of the imperialist American demon and so on.
This is more like it, and it isn't quite the same as the quoted scenario now, is it.
So convenient to conpletely erase the (soviet) past. Too bad for many eastern europeans their memory serves them well.
Link for those “biolabs?”
...in order to avert her own balkanization down the road by an enemy which breached its geopolitical promises first.
Ah promises…like invading poland and murdering the polish pows?
Or starving ukranians.
You really want to go into “firsts” with soviet promises?
Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Them joining eu is not balkanizing russia. Even them joining nato isnt.
Vastly different types of interventions by Moscow. What they do have in common though, is that all three were triggered by NATO assault on vital Russian interests, or in Syria's case major interests.
Well for starters stalinist population measures and supporting minority dictatorships are always a cause of instability in itself.
also claims of nato assaults are fake/disputed regarding chechnia
And this absolves NATO's aggressive behaviour displayed with excessive vigor since the collapse of the Soviet Union? Not that during the bipolar rivalry, NATO regimes did not launch multiple bloody wars.
The original pretext invoked for NATO's creation rapidly faded in the face of these offensive undertakings.
If ukraine was in nato it would not be invaded…plenty of nations fleeing for russian agression towards nato. Hasnt changed in decades really.
So during Yushchenko's presidency, when the poisoning claims were investigated, Russian-friendly forces were in power in Ukraine?
No kuzmin was always pro-russian.
He really pushed more around 2010-2011 same time as yanukovich was jailing opposition.
Ukrainian nationalists espouse Bandera. Lots of Ukrainians who are not part of nationalist formations do as well, egged on by the regime.
Plus as told, within the military and political scene, armed far right units wield highly disproportionate influence upon the decision-making process. Such as threatening former president Poroshenko with death were he to insist on implementing the ceasefire stipulated for by the Minsk agreements.
The nazi angle is far overblown. We are talking tens of millions wanting closer eu ties. Millions fleeing russia now.
Stalin was cooperating with the nazis too. Maybe that explains why those “z” troops act so much like fascists.
Every imaginable document was posted in this thread. We all saw them, and evidence for war crimes incriminates the Kiev regime far more than Russia.
Nonsense. Un on donbass, investigations current conflict, all point to heavier russian transgressions.
No matter how you spin it, history does not present claims issued by NATO regimes under a particularly favorable light.
Russian leaders have used deception for strategic ends in ways that shed light on their geopolitical goals
carnegieendowment.org
No I didn't. In fact it was the western mainstream media which simply attributed such thinking to Russia, when in fact Moscow never expressed this kind of assessment.
What I know though, is that the Ukrainian regime lost the war, for all practical purposes, in the first two to three weeks. Everything that followed and will follow for now more, is akin to a formality, be it a lengthy one. As said the outcome can be delayed, not modified.
Well for one ukraine stopped the attacks on kiev and kharkiv. They have gotten their statehood. A country of 30 million heavily anti-russian.
Donbass is still not decided. Not looking good but lets see how the new ukranian mobilisation with western weapons will pan out.
As for refugees, I'm not sure what you seek to prove with these numbers. Twelve million or more people might very well support the regime, don't remember stating otherwise.
That the numbers dont match your “nazis everywhere” russian propaganda. It is not a justification for this war.
Mixing various scenarii unfolding under fundamentally different circumstances. My statement was that Russia's military operation in Ukraine does not resemble the typical heavy handed approach resorted to by NATO. Now you can rehash Grozny and Aleppo all you want, but it'll be beside the point.
We will see when the smoke clears and the victims pile up.
Mariupol indeed, where die hard extremist units of the Ukrainian army had taken up position among others in some of the most impenetrable locations built to resist nuclear strikes, where the use of civilian buildings as shields was the norm, and where a nihilistic mindset reminiscent of the Wehrmacht's futile but unnecessarily self-destructive defense of Berlin in 1945 resulted in above average damage to infrastructure.
I mean, if you repeat it a thousand times, I will be right here and will reiterate the same response a thousand times. No problem, believe me. I'm not sure if you believe that by repeating this endlessly, I'm going to get confused but if that's your hope, rest assured, it's not going to happen.
Bucha rubizhne. There are many many more flattened cities and villages.
Soldiers openly gunning down civilians and their regiments get medals. Not even the americans are that openly cynical.
Russia never officially gave such precise timetables. Donbas is home to the most fortified Ukrainian defense line, manner by its most fanatical neo-Nazi units. Hence the delay. Recall these words when it's over.
Yes lets see.
It is clear russia underestimated ukraine however.
You're the one deflecting here, don't project your misstep on others. Just admit Afghan rebels didn't enjoy 5% of the international backing against NATO that they did against the USSR.
Its simple, russia invade afghanistan. Millions of civilians dead
America does, tens of thousands.
Speaking of hospitals, one of the first targets of invading US forces in Fallujah was the local hospital.
And i lost count to the number in ukraine. Dozens.
2) Iran is extremely stable politically and socially given the enemies she is facing.
3) There's no "Shia-Sunni thing" outside of misinformation and simplistic, shallow look at regional affairs and conflicts.
The saudi think otherwise. Come on salarhaqq its better to live under a stable sunni dictator.
Thats what you want for the eastern europeans afterall. Stability under a foreign dictator.
And yes again, hostile NATO encroachment along borders was a threat to the USSR in its final years, it is even more of a threat to the Russian Federation.
What threat? Again. Defensive alliance and europeans veing overly pacifistic. Wanting larger trade with russia.
Now they double their spending and are pushed back in arms of the meddling americans…great move putin.
Wonder how Kiev justifies its foregoing war of aggression against the DPR and LPR consecutive to the internationally brokered and ratified ceasefire it decided to breach.
You mean protecting their sovereign land against those russian mercenaries?
Un noted most transgressions from seperatists. So no…they dont only look at who “started”…
I am close to finishing this discussion by the way. All your “facts” and observations are extremely biased and hand-picked.
I will let the reality on the ground speak for itself.
Millions of ukranians now set heavily against russia.
More and more dead civilians will show up.
And the “crushed” morale and “millions hoping to be liberated” should lead to a collapsed front. But it has not and will not.
The seperatist nations will regret it over time as they suffer under dictatorship and increasing poverty vs their western unranian brothers.
Sounds familiar? Its the history with former warsaw pact all over again…
