Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[jhungary]

So mighty NATO not intervening to avoid WW3 is all good but if russia does the same, not directly attack NATO, that makes russia a pxssy???
Both russia and US have lost to proxies (afd and vietnam). US have the additional honor of losing to taliban in Afghanistan who were not supported by any major power lolz.

Dude, in case you are too dumb to see, UKRAINE MEAN NOTHING TO NATO.

NATO intentionally dangle Ukraine in front of Sweden and Finland - THE COUNTRIES NATO WANTED. To teach them a lesson. See how much Russian "respect" their "Brothers" and if you don't join NATO, you are next. NATO don't care shit about Ukraine, if they do, they would have sent a more comprehensive package to Ukraine, 16 HIMARS? What can 16 HIMARS do?

And lol, you have to be stupid to compare US war in Afghanistan and Vietnam, first of all, both countries were 10,000 miles aways from US and Europe, Ukraine and Afghanistan were both next to Russia. Combat Power decrease with distant because it take longer and more resource to support a war further away from you. I would very much like to see how Russia would fare in a war outside their border not next to.

Secondly, both time US lost interest and leave, Both Vietnam and Taliban did not defeat US/NATO in military term, unless you are talking about being forced to live in a cave for 10 (in Vietnam) and 20 years (in Afghanistan) and loses over 100,000 men is "winning" in military term.

What is wrong with your reasoning? With time new technologies become cheap, same as tech on F 16 is affordable, like wise development in other technologies that can upgrade manpads and ATGMs also become affordable.

I am asking you, what upgrade can be perform to Manpad and ATGM?

You said better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics. That's the entire system, and if you do upgrade all of them, that thing will not be Stinger and Javelin

And finally, any kind of upgrade will only push the value up, that's why a 1970 era F-16A block 12 cost around 37 millions dollar while a 2010 F16 Block 70 cost around 85 million. Again, this may work in a multi million fighter jet, it won't work on a $50,000 missile system.....

You fought against Taliban equipped with Aks, some old Snipers and few RPGs, first tell me how it was fighting them?
Secondly imagine you going in blackhawk or Chinook and are hit by SAM out of nowhere, also imagine you sitting in humvee, or MRAP and suddenly are hit by ATGM from a mountain that goes through the armour and boom.

You say that like Taliban had not shot at us with Stinger or other Manpads.......They did, and the loss are minimal.

And only moron will try to shoot a Humvee with ATGM.....It's lucky if you can hit the dust trail........And you would have been spotted by the Humvee or the Helicopter flying overhead a mile away, without scrub, vegetation or building, where are you going to hide to lay an ambush like that? Under a rock??

 

[Thinker3]

Dude, in case you are too dumb to see, UKRAINE MEAN NOTHING TO NATO.

NATO intentionally dangle Ukraine in front of Sweden and Finland - THE COUNTRIES NATO WANTED. To teach them a lesson. See how much Russian "respect" their "Brothers" and if you don't join NATO, you are next. NATO don't care shit about Ukraine, if they do, they would have sent a more comprehensive package to Ukraine, 16 HIMARS? What can 16 HIMARS do?

And lol, you have to be stupid to compare US war in Afghanistan and Vietnam, first of all, both countries were 10,000 miles aways from US and Europe, Ukraine and Afghanistan were both next to Russia. Combat Power decrease with distant because it take longer and more resource to support a war further away from you. I would very much like to see how Russia would fare in a war outside their border not next to.

Secondly, both time US lost interest and leave, Both Vietnam and Taliban did not defeat US/NATO in military term, unless you are talking about being forced to live in a cave for 10 (in Vietnam) and 20 years (in Afghanistan) and loses over 100,000 men is "winning" in military term.



I am asking you, what upgrade can be perform to Manpad and ATGM?

You said better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics. That's the entire system, and if you do upgrade all of them, that thing will not be Stinger and Javelin



You say that like Taliban had not shot at us with Stinger or other Manpads.......They did, and the loss are minimal.

And only moron will try to shoot a Humvee with ATGM.....It's lucky if you can hit the dust trail........And you would have been spotted by the Humvee or the Helicopter flying overhead a mile away, without scrub, vegetation or building, where are you going to hide to lay an ambush like that? Under a rock??

If they had any Stinger it was outdated 70s tech, which any modern Aircraft can easily evade, same with their ATGMs, if they had any, they had old outdated ones, but mostly RPGs if you consider them to be even Atgm.
And those Humvees and MRAP will not be moving all the time, they may be stationary at times, or maybe forced to stop by some kind of ambush.
If Taliban had something like Nlaw or AT 4 they would come close and fire at close range at some choke point, like Ukrainians are doing.

 

[jhungary]

If they had any Stinger it was outdated 70s tech, which any modern Aircraft can easily evade, same with their ATGMs, if they had any, they had old outdated ones, but mostly RPGs if you consider them to be even Atgm.

Well first of all, not many Russia Fighter were brought down by Ukrainian Stinger. Not even that many Helicopter did too, if you look at "Confirmed" kill only, you are talking about around 5 Su-25 and Su-30 and around 30 helicopter being brought down by Stinger.

What the Ukrainian had is what we gave to the Afghan when they fought the Russian. We can argue all day long whether or not how advance the "Advanced" stinger is. But even in Ukrainian War, it didn't do that much.

And those Humvees and MRAP will not be moving all the time, they may be stationary at times, or maybe forced to stop by some kind of ambush.
If Taliban had something like Nlaw or AT 4 they would come close and fire at close range at some choke point, like Ukrainians are doing.

Sure, hit Humvee and MRAP with Javelin and NLAW. using a $50,000 system to kill a $12,000 Humvee. How many Humvee and MRAP can you kill with 2000 Nlaw and Javelin? Let's say 100% kill rate. That's 2000 Humvee or MRAP, that's 8000 men, Do you think the war is going to end if US lose 8000 men and 2000 Humvee?

I am not even going to comment on how you say you are going to use NLAW and Javelin.......That show you have no tactical sense, and I don't think you ever have to understand how to lay an ambush......

 

[Thinker3]

Well first of all, not many Russia Fighter were brought down by Ukrainian Stinger. Not even that many Helicopter did too, if you look at "Confirmed" kill only, you are talking about around 5 Su-25 and Su-30 and around 30 helicopter being brought down by Stinger.

What the Ukrainian had is what we gave to the Afghan when they fought the Russian. We can argue all day long whether or not how advance the "Advanced" stinger is. But even in Ukrainian War, it didn't do that much.



Sure, hit Humvee and MRAP with Javelin and NLAW. using a $50,000 system to kill a $12,000 Humvee. How many Humvee and MRAP can you kill with 2000 Nlaw and Javelin? Let's say 100% kill rate. That's 2000 Humvee or MRAP, that's 8000 men, Do you think the war is going to end if US lose 8000 men and 2000 Humvee?

I am not even going to comment on how you say you are going to use NLAW and Javelin.......That show you have no tactical sense, and I don't think you ever have to understand how to lay an ambush......

8000 men and 2000 vehicles with one missile per launcher, do you think they will have one missile per launcher?
Again I don't think you have much idea about weapon upgradation.
Chinese and Russian weapons don't cost as much as western and American ones, although they are still effective.

 

[Viet]

So finally we agree on something, so you see west was never sincere from the start with Russia, and western propaganda says that Putin was not sincere.

Politics is a dirty business. If you expect clean hands then go to hospital. Joke aside, even Nato plays dirty there is no justification for Russia invasion of Ukraine.
Ukraine is not member of the Nato and will not join the Nato anytime soon.
But now the water is shed, Ukraine wants to join the Nato, preferably tomorrow.

 

[jhungary]

8000 men and 2000 vehicles with one missile per launcher, do you think they will have one missile per launcher?
Again I don't think you have much idea about weapon upgradation.
Chinese and Russian weapons don't cost as much as western and American ones, although they are still effective.

You do know portable ATGM are one missile per launcher, and I am giving you 100% kill rate. which in reality would never had happened........

And you probably have no idea how weapon works. It's like saying M4 are better than M16 because it is the upgrade version of M16......It's not how much to upgrade those weapons, it's why. If you are talking about a $50,000 system, you are A LOT BETTER OFF to make a new system then upgrade the existing one. It's not a fighter jet that cost you multi million dollars to make where you need to maintain the production line as long as possible, so they cost as little as possible.

Upgrading in any sense a FIM-92 and Javelin is dumb. Because they are simple platform, you would be better off making a new system than to upgrade the existing one. Upgrading those system are usually limited to patching problems. Not increase its capability......

 

[Thinker3]

Politics is a dirty business. If you expect clean hands then go to hospital. Joke aside, even Nato plays dirty there is no justification for Russia invasion of Ukraine.
Ukraine is not member of the Nato m, and will not join the Nato anytime soon.

Ukraine had pro Russia Government, which was violently overthrown and a ultra Nationalist anti Russia movement came into existence which killed many Russians in Ukraine, even as of today people that speak Russian in Ukraine face violence. Also the regime change resulted in many Ukrainians siding with Russia like those in donbass, and Ukrainian military started a war with them, naturally Russia would back their supporters, west backed Ukranian army and ultra Nationalists and things escalated and here we are today.

You do know portable ATGM are one missile per launcher, and I am giving you 100% kill rate. which in reality would never had happened........

And you probably have no idea how weapon works. It's like saying M4 are better than M16 because it is the upgrade version of M16......It's not how much to upgrade those weapons, it's why. If you are talking about a $50,000 system, you are A LOT BETTER OFF to make a new system then upgrade the existing one. It's not a fighter jet that cost you multi million dollars to make where you need to maintain the production line as long as possible, so they cost as little as possible.

Upgrading in any sense a FIM-92 and Javelin is dumb. Because they are simple platform, you would be better off making a new system than to upgrade the existing one. Upgrading those system are usually limited to patching problems. Not increase its capability......

I am done arguing with you, I don't mean to offend you but you have no idea about weapon upgrades, ask other more knowledgeable people here the question about weapon upgrade, they will tell you as you are not listening to me and not all ATGMs are portable single use, many are multiple use.

FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You can check different variants of Stinger that have been upgrades over time in this on Wikipedia.

 

[jhungary]

I am done arguing with you, I don't mean to offend you but you have no idea about weapon upgrades, ask other more knowledgeable people here the question about weapon upgrade, they will tell you as you are not listening to me

I know what weapon upgrade means, you on the other hand, probably don't know, as evidence that you use a fighter jet as an example for upgrade and failed to realise the different between a fighter jet and small arms.

and not all ATGMs are portable single use, many are multiple use.

But we are talking about Javelin or NLAW, which is a single use Portable Weapon system. We are not talking about TOW (which could have 4 launcher) or any Multiple Use Rocket. Those are not the weapon the West supplying Ukraine with. If you want to talk about multiple use rocket launcher, that's another topic.

 

[TNT]

Dude, in case you are too dumb to see, UKRAINE MEAN NOTHING TO NATO.

NATO intentionally dangle Ukraine in front of Sweden and Finland - THE COUNTRIES NATO WANTED. To teach them a lesson. See how much Russian "respect" their "Brothers" and if you don't join NATO, you are next. NATO don't care shit about Ukraine, if they do, they would have sent a more comprehensive package to Ukraine, 16 HIMARS? What can 16 HIMARS do?

And lol, you have to be stupid to compare US war in Afghanistan and Vietnam, first of all, both countries were 10,000 miles aways from US and Europe, Ukraine and Afghanistan were both next to Russia. Combat Power decrease with distant because it take longer and more resource to support a war further away from you. I would very much like to see how Russia would fare in a war outside their border not next to.

Secondly, both time US lost interest and leave, Both Vietnam and Taliban did not defeat US/NATO in military term, unless you are talking about being forced to live in a cave for 10 (in Vietnam) and 20 years (in Afghanistan) and loses over 100,000 men is "winning" in military term.



I am asking you, what upgrade can be perform to Manpad and ATGM?

You said better IR seekers, better warheads, better optics, better software, better electronics. That's the entire system, and if you do upgrade all of them, that thing will not be Stinger and Javelin

And finally, any kind of upgrade will only push the value up, that's why a 1970 era F-16A block 12 cost around 37 millions dollar while a 2010 F16 Block 70 cost around 85 million. Again, this may work in a multi million fighter jet, it won't work on a $50,000 missile system.....



You say that like Taliban had not shot at us with Stinger or other Manpads.......They did, and the loss are minimal.

And only moron will try to shoot a Humvee with ATGM.....It's lucky if you can hit the dust trail........And you would have been spotted by the Humvee or the Helicopter flying overhead a mile away, without scrub, vegetation or building, where are you going to hide to lay an ambush like that? Under a rock??

Lolz all that cheerleading for Ukraine and now u endup with NATO doesnt give a shit? So basically u accept what russia is saying that NATO is only using ukraine against russia. You confirm that NATO is a war mongering alliance destroying world peace. It didn't take much to make u expose ur ugly face.

 

[ZeGerman]

You do know portable ATGM are one missile per launcher, and I am giving you 100% kill rate. which in reality would never had happened........

Dont just hand him theoretical 100% kill rate.

To get such teams into position, succesfully hit the target, and survive the whole encounter is no small feat.
Especially against overwhelming force with better training and intelligence.

We literally spent billions and 20 years arming and training ANA and look at their combat performance. Though the taliban were somewhat better fighters (motivation counts alot), lets not pretend they did not suffer from lack of training, doctrine, combined arms, and professionalism.
a reason they lost all military conventional encounters against coalition.

“Give those supersoldiers 1000 stingers and 3000 javelins and the USA would be beaten in 2 months!”

 

[MeFishToo]

What happened to the Ukrainian counter-offensive in Kherson? Any latest update?

Source (War in Ukraine)

At the center the ukrainian bridgehead is expanding and the ukrainians were being stopped by a regiment from 98 airborne from reaching mainroad leading towards Nova Kakhovka dam.

In the north the ukrainians have partly encircled the 45 Special forces brigade, while a russian regiment from 98 airborne is trying to relieve them.

All in all, Russia is in trouble. The airborne divisions and special forces brigade have their hands full. If Ukraine breaks those units, the Kherson area is a mess.
7. airborne division is trying to hold the lines in the southern part.

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565460304401670152

Huge launch of HIMARS rockets

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565457835336646656

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565429004940853248

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565473920542810118

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565473957892980739

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565467318154567688

 

[Oldman1]

Well, that would have been an escalation, there are a lot going on already, Ukrainian Ops in Crimea, Occupied Ukraine and Russia, those ops have enough psychological effect on Russian morale already, unless Russia escalate (either mobilise or use nuke) I don't see any escalation on Ukrainian ends.

What Ukrainian needed now is conventional firepower, tanks, artillery and aircraft, you need that to pull a counter offensive. Drones are a must have, with HARM now into the fray, it will most definitely pushes Russian Air Defence system further out, it blind your enemy and let you expand your area of operation.

Escalation? What would the Russians do? Fire battleship size shells at the Ukrainians? Shoot humongous mortar rounds? Use thermobaric rockets on them? Fire Grad rockets and cluster munitions? Fire white phosphorus on them? All been done to dislodge the Ukrainians in trenches. Air burst GLMRS is the best way in response to go against dug in Russian troops in the trenches to push them back. Not to mention Russians using the new hardened small bunkers they are bringing in. Can use regular GLMRS to accurately hit and punch through those easily. We've seen them do it. Even hit deep fox holes as well.

Also not to mention what you said before where the Ukrainians have hit the Russians hard in Crimea and even on Russian soil already along with using HIMARS and M240s to hit Russian ammo depots and command and control and barracks resulting heavy casualties. So providing airburst GLMRS is like not going to push beyond that.