What's new

Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
Ukraine had no weapons
Their soldiers were poorly trained
They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk
But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land
Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians
 
. .
I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
Ukraine had no weapons
Their soldiers were poorly trained
They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk
But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land
Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians

Before the war started, Ukrainians had 250,000 active duty military personnel and 530,000 reserve forces.

They had countless air defense, missile, howitzers, tanks, and fighter jets.

They had and still have the support of NATO which provides countless financial and military support including missiles, rockets, aerial, naval, and sattelite imagery, guidance, and intelligence support.

They have a terrain that is full of forests and rivers, which are perfect hide-outs for an army that is waging an asymmetric warfare.

Most importantly, as former Marine Colonel and UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter confirmed, Ukraine could militarily beat any nation in NATO except USA and Turkey.

Furthermore, Russia was imposed the most severe economic embargo that any nation had ever faced. It was a siege designed to suffocate the Russian economy.

So when you look at those conditions, Russia liberating the whole LPR and most of DPR in addition to big towns in the South such as Meriupol, Kherson, and others, clearly point to the overwhelming odds the Russians faced and their military superiority for gradually defeating Ukraine backed by NATO.

Russia fighting inch by inch means they want to minimize their casualties while inflicting heavy losses on Ukrainian forces. Russians are truly providing a classical textbook of how to defeat an army backed by powerful adversary like NATO. It is a miracle that Russia survived the siege while making a gradual progress in the battle-field.
 
Last edited:
.

That guy took that mine like a man like I've never seen before. Almost all of the time anyone steps on a personnel landmine and it blows off one or both his lower extremities or even legs up to the knees, they're bloodied and more importantly are screaming in pain and panic and freakout or, are in complete shock. This guy was trying to talk to someone on the radio and handing it to one of his comrades and was cool, calm and collected despite having just stepped on a mine! Incredible.

I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
Ukraine had no weapons
Their soldiers were poorly trained
They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk
But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land
Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians

This is very true. I think everyone, including the anti-Russian contingent are completely shocked and surprised at the performance of the Russians in this war. I think we were so accustomed to seeing all the Russian might that developed through the years post WWII, including their immense effort in defending Russia and then turning the tide against Nazi Germany while essentially defeating it first, before the Allies reached Berlin. While the Allies certainly share a large portion of the Nazi defeat, the Russians made their part of the conflict an unparalleled staple for their might and performance.

All that followed by the weapon's race between the Soviet Union and the United States including the near worldly disaster that was the Cuban Missile Crisis which still followed decades of mere level competition in power between the two countries until the fall of the Soviet Union.

I think that even with the collapse of communism in the USSR and its transformation into the Russian Federation and the result in stagnation in its economic & military industry, it still was able to eventually rebound and keep its standing as the 2nd most poweful superpower in the world. I don't think anyone denied that even with China's rise.

Then we're met with this strangely lacking performance, and I say lacking simply because it is so far off from our perception of Russia's military prowess. Even its scorched earth tactics that it used in Syria were still a display of its brutal power, regardless of its legalities, it still showcased its tremendous power and especially in the air.

So to see this performance in what Russia itself labels as only "a military operation" and not a full-fledged war, well, so wasn't their participation in Syria the same level. So why has it shown such underrated results in this case?

Even the fact that Ukraine was arguably the most essential republic of the former Soviet Union, with its economy and industry that flourished with its independence post-Soviet Union collapse and became one of Europe's most economically successful countries.

Even then, with all that success, it still used almost exclusively all Soviet and Russian equipment in its military. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that Soviet tactics and war strategies were also a large part of its methods which brings us to this perplexing status.

If all of this was so well-known to Russia, why has this "military operation" been a very difficult and very costly process for Russia? Is its military prowess actually false, overrated, or is its equipment the problem? Or was it a lack of a well-designed predetermined strategy that led to it just not have enough military discipline and training among all its branches to be able to conduct an effective, all-encompassing, well-planned & all-around well-executed, successful military campaign?

The first impression I got was that it didn't have a well-established combined arms protocol that it could base this and any other military conflict off of. It hadn't set up any formal, disciplined and well-planned strategy or training between land forces, air forces and navy. We see single units in huge open fields getting easily targeted by Ukrainian CMs and artillery or UCAvs. We see undisciplined strategies of taking the northern sector and getting shut down at Kyiv only to abandon that entire and essential target to focus on the east and south of Ukraine, primarily to create an all-out Russian land corridor to Crimea is my guess. This entire effort seems to lack that well-planned war effort of strategizing and prioritizing essential targets, fulfilling the required missions to achieve them and hold them.

Not to take anything away from the Ukrainians and the all-out worldly effort to assist & aid them against Russia (especially US material and the ever so important Intel,) but the lack of effectiveness in so many military engagements from the so-called 2nd superpower in the world is dumfounding.

Many might not like this, but they must look at this objectively regardless of who they're rooting for in this conflict and regardless of the sanctions that have been imposed on Russia. It still should've been able to crush the Ukrainian military and overwhelm the entire eastern front all the way to Kyiv in the north straight down to Crimea and do it exactly the way the US or NATO would've. After having performed extensive intel and organized a critical list of military (and even political) targets, being prepared in trained manpower, start the conflict with nothing but a month of pounding from the air with Tu-22s, Su-35s, Su-24s, etc. Drop tons of munitions on all acquired military targets (even past the critical Kyiv/Crimea line and into Ukraine proper) and soften the entire eastern portion of the Ukraine so that once that's completed, you then send in your land forces with the proper tactics in armored units and infantry. Plan their movements in organized patterns with specific lists of targets to take out and have a well-organized group of engineering battalions follow in cue to fix and setup critical aspects etc. and layout an effective, mobile air defense structure to protect those moving forces. Russia has the best mobile SAM systems in the world and to not have them placed well enough to completely obliterate a practically non-existent Ukrainian air force should be automatic. Instead, they were practically decapitated by Ukraine's use of UAVs and small amounts of Ukrainian air force sorties that boggles the mind.

The way they lost so many helicopters to MANPADs early through mid-part of the conflict is perfectly indicative of the lack of strategy I'm referring to. That's like such a no-brainer that we saw in Syria and several other recent conflicts that those losses should've been completely averted.

I could get into so much more of the technical aspects based on strictly my opinion, but the post is long already, and I don't want to bore you and others, but you get the gist of what I'm saying anyway.

As a huge fan of Russia but do not encourage or support the invasion of another country even though I do realize why Russia is doing this and, in some ways, understand the reason. Still, I would've rather seen a much more diplomatic resolution exhausted to its final limits first. But I'm sure that everyone who's following this war is either shocked or seriously disappointed at Russia's military strategy and overall performance in this conflict, regardless of what side you're on. There are no two ways about it.

So when you look at those conditions, Russia liberating the whole LPR and most of DPR in addition to big towns in the South such as Meriupol, Kherson, and others, clearly point to the overwhelming odds the Russians faced and their military superiority for gradually defeating Ukraine backed by NATO.

You make excellent points, Hassan. I still think that despite the sanctions, Russia was still in a formidable military position to perform much better than it has, especially in terms of strategy. The beginning and early part of the war did not look like a great military that did everything it needed to prepare for such a huge undertaking and it almost seems like a piece-meal effort. Figure it out as we go sort of thing and that's actually a very important element of war, having the ability to make critical decisions on the fly or when actions don't go as planned. But even to the layman, they didn't seem to start this conflict with a precise strategy to wipe out all or as much of Ukraine's critical military structures and soften its ability to fight before sending in their invasion forces.

I know this is sticky for many of the anti-US & pro-Russia fellas here, but just think what the US would've done if the roles were interchanged. Put the US in place of Russia and how do you suppose it would've handled the same exact thing? Anyone is welcome to answer that and I'm sure we would all agree on the same exact thing.
 
Last edited:
. . . . . . . .
Possible, but this is not just about Zelensky but about the cruel "humans" he commands. There must be thousands of them. What should become of them ? My latest ban was about me posting the exploits of these "humanitarian" people. Perhaps forum management deemed it too graphic.



Yes, he wants total destruction of Ukraine and that is why Russian forces deliver food, water, medicine and other supplies to the Ukrainian civilians whose cities the Russians and allies liberate.



I am a Communist so this "Rich West" is immaterial to me.

I am a Communist so I am a real progressive.

I have nothing against innocent and rational Christians and Jews. I as a Muslim respect Hazrat Isa and I am circumcized which is a Jewish rite but could have been adopted by Jews from others.

About cars I call for this :

NATO is the North Atlantic Terrorist Organization ever since its establishment in 1958. 64 years of global terrorism.



When was North Korea haraam to me ? I keep saying that North Korea despite the atrocious sanctions on it for decades imposed by NATO, has managed to maintain a welfare-based society. Though one thing I really want in North Korea is the abolition of the quasi monarchy of the Kim family and establishment of actual Communism via direct democracy / participatory democracy like was present in the Libyan Jamahiriya and is being implemented in Venezuela.

Russia came into Ukraine to deNazify and demilitarize. If I post the details of the atrocities of the UkroNazis and Ukrops since during World War 2 till now I will get banned again. I came back from ban just a few days ago for posting those very details which probably forum management deemed graphic.
lol-" North Atlantic Terrorist Organization " :rofl:
 
.
I always thought the Russians would easily wipe the Ukrainians off of their soil
Ukraine had no weapons
Their soldiers were poorly trained
They could hardly fend off the rebels in donesk
But they've put up a solid fight and the Russians have to fight for every inch of land
Kinda poor tactics from the Russian high command
No solid armour thrust anywhere on the front line
No intentions to break through and encircle the Ukrainians
Not true at all, Ukrainian soldiers had been part of the Soviet army for a long time and had weapons manufacturing plants and were well armed and well trained. The main issue was that Ukrainian soldiers were reluctant to fight the Russians who they did not consider as an enemy but that has been tactically changed.
 
.
That guy took that mine like a man like I've never seen before. Almost all of the time anyone steps on a personnel landmine and it blows off one or both his lower extremities or even legs up to the knees, they're bloodied and more importantly are screaming in pain and panic and freakout or, are in complete shock. This guy was trying to talk to someone on the radio and handing it to one of his comrades and was cool, calm and collected despite having just stepped on a mine! Incredible.



This is very true. I think everyone, including the anti-Russian contingent are completely shocked and surprised at the performance of the Russians in this war. I think we were so accustomed to seeing all the Russian might that developed through the years post WWII, including their immense effort in defending Russia and then turning the tide against Nazi Germany while essentially defeating it first, before the Allies reached Berlin. While the Allies certainly share a large portion of the Nazi defeat, the Russians made their part of the conflict an unparalleled staple for their might and performance.

All that followed by the weapon's race between the Soviet Union and the United States including the near worldly disaster that was the Cuban Missile Crisis which still followed decades of mere level competition in power between the two countries until the fall of the Soviet Union.

I think that even with the collapse of communism in the USSR and its transformation into the Russian Federation and the result in stagnation in its economic & military industry, it still was able to eventually rebound and keep its standing as the 2nd most poweful superpower in the world. I don't think anyone denied that even with China's rise.

Then we're met with this strangely lacking performance, and I say lacking simply because it is so far off from our perception of Russia's military prowess. Even its scorched earth tactics that it used in Syria were still a display of its brutal power, regardless of its legalities, it still showcased its tremendous power and especially in the air.

So to see this performance in what Russia itself labels as only "a military operation" and not a full-fledged war, well, so wasn't their participation in Syria the same level. So why has it shown such underrated results in this case?

Even the fact that Ukraine was arguably the most essential republic of the former Soviet Union, with its economy and industry that flourished with its independence post-Soviet Union collapse and became one of Europe's most economically successful countries.

Even then, with all that success, it still used almost exclusively all Soviet and Russian equipment in its military. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that Soviet tactics and war strategies were also a large part of its methods which brings us to this perplexing status.

If all of this was so well-known to Russia, why has this "military operation" been a very difficult and very costly process for Russia? Is its military prowess actually false, or is its equipment the problem? Or did it just not have enough military discipline and training among all its branches to be able to conduct an effective, all-encompassing, well-planned & all-around well-executed & successful?

The first impression I got was that it didn't have a well-established combined arms protocol that it could base this and any other military conflict off of. It hadn't set up any formal, disciplined and well-planned strategy or training between land forces, air forces and navy. We see single units in huge open fields getting easily targeted by Ukrainian CMs and artillery or UCAvs. We see undisciplined strategies of taking the northern sector and getting shut down at Kyiv only to abandon that entire and essential target to focus on the east and south of Ukraine, primarily to create an all-out Russian land corridor to Crimea is my guess. This entire effort seems to lack that well-planned war effort of strategizing and prioritizing essential targets, fulfilling the required missions to achieve them and hold them.

Not to take anything away from the Ukrainians and the all-out worldly effort to assist & aid them against Russia (especially US material and the ever so important Intel,) but the lack of effectiveness in so many military engagements from the so-called 2nd superpower in the world is dumfounding.

Many might not like this, but they must look at this objectively regardless of who they're rooting for in this conflict and regardless of the sanctions that have been imposed on Russia. It still should've been able to crush the Ukrainian military and overwhelm the entire eastern front all the way to Kyiv in the north straight down to Crimea and do it exactly the way the US or NATO would've. After having performed extensive intel and organized a critical list of military (and even political) targets, being prepared in trained manpower, start the conflict with nothing but a month of pounding from the air with Tu-22s, Su-35s, Su-24s, etc. Drop tons of munitions on all acquired military targets (even past the critical Kyiv/Crimea line and into Ukraine proper) and soften the entire eastern portion of the Ukraine so that once that's completed, you then send in your land forces with the proper tactics in armored units and infantry. Plan their movements in organized patterns with specific lists of targets to take out and have a well-organized group of engineering battalions follow in cue to fix and setup critical aspects etc. and layout an effective, mobile air defense structure to protect those moving forces. Russia has the best mobile SAM systems in the world and to not have them placed well enough to completely obliterate a practically non-existent Ukrainian air force should be automatic. Instead, they were practically decapitated by Ukraine's use of UAVs and small amounts of Ukrainian air force sorties that boggles the mind.

The way they lost so many helicopters to MANPADs early through mid-part of the conflict is perfectly indicative of the lack of strategy I'm referring to. That's like such a no-brainer that we saw in Syria and several other recent conflicts that those losses should've been completely averted.

I could get into so much more of the technical aspects based on strictly my opinion, but the post is long already, and I don't want to bore you and others, but you get the gist of what I'm saying anyway.

As a huge fan of Russia but do not encourage or support the invasion of another country even though I do realize why Russia is doing this and, in some ways, understand the reason. Still, I would've rather seen a much more diplomatic resolution exhausted to its final limits first. But I'm sure that everyone who's following this war is either shocked or seriously disappointed at Russia's military strategy and overall performance in this conflict, regardless of what side you're on. There are no two ways about it.



You make excellent points, Hassan. I still think that despite the sanctions, Russia was still in a formidable military position to perform much better than it has, especially in terms of strategy. The beginning and early part of the war did not look like a great military that did everything it needed to prepare for such a huge undertaking and it almost seems like a piece-meal effort. Figure it out as we go sort of thing and that's actually a very important element of war, having the ability to make critical decisions on the fly or when actions don't go as planned. But even to the layman, they didn't seem to start this conflict with a precise strategy to wipe out all or as much of Ukraine's critical military structures and soften its ability to fight before sending in their invasion forces.

I know this is sticky for many of the anit-US fellas here, but just think what the US would've done if the roles were interchanged. Put the US in place of Russia and how do you suppose it would've handled the same exact thing? Anyone is welcome to answer that and I'm sure we would all agree on the same exact thing.
Your answer lies in what Russia able to capture in Ukraine.

The answer, in case you have missed, is within 50km of Russian border. If you draw a point on any of the area Russia captured in Ukraine in this war, it goes back to within 50 km from either Russian Border, or Ukrainian land already under Russian control since 2014.

That tell you 2 things.

1.) Logistic is a problem for Russia, the charge for Kyiv show you how Russia depends on Railway on logistic, their ground base logistic is a joke, as a result, they can't penetrate Ukraine into Kyiv (That's roughly 150km away from Belarus border) despite they have been in Belarus training for months (3 or 4 I forgot) before the war started.

2.) The Russian Air Force is not functioning correctly. 50km is within Artillery range, anything further than that, you will need a proper air force to interdict the theatre, you cannot move artillery and anti-air deeper into your enemy soil unless you have air superiority, and Russian Air Force failed to get it for the Russian, hence they met resistant when they try to march in deeper than their artillery coverage off the border.

Now, there are 2 things here, what Russian Military are, and what our perception of what Russian Military are. If they lived up to their standard, which is the number 2 military in the world, they would already had taken Kyiv in the first month and according to some US Planner, by July, they would have been attacking Dnipro, instead they are stopped at E40 highway with minor gain since Sieverodonetsk, which was taken a months ago.

If you want to ask how US would do this? We would go in with our air force and destroy the Ukrainian Air Force on the ground and in the air, sure, we may suffer some casualty, but the Air Superiority is absolute. Then we will pick off the Ukrainian military parts by parts, and bypass town that don't have strategic value and go after regional capital. This is how this war should have fought. Many people mistaken that Russian Military come into this fight with a lot of advantage and experience, the problem is, Russia had not handled a war in a way it should probably since 1960. That is why they lost touch on modern warfare, what Russia is doing now is nothing but WW2 style siege warfare, it would work up to a point, but not always, it depends on how Ukraine adapted the fight and what kind of heavy equipment the west is willing to give.
 
. .

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom