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Russia to use Pakistan's footballs in 2018 world cup

More then anything I will know Pakistan is set to make real progress when we see one, just one steel mill being established with 25-30 million ton annual capacity. No large nation can make progress without "steel".
 
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I don't think you and me have the same abstraction of "feudal".

Feudal
of, relating to, or like the feudal system, or its political, military, social, and economic structure. 2. of or relating to the Middle Ages. 3

I am talking about the same system.

World is not made by saints. Progress is not done by lovers. Every thing is taken to height by Killer. Those who kill do the progress. USA killed thousands for it economic progress. UK killed thousands. France just killed thousands in Libya just to get economic progress and cheap oil. USA is still killing thousands around the world to make demand for it's products. Sorry my friend it is killers that are making progress around the world that very military and social and political feudal society of killer is taking the world to progress and feeding masses home to keep them selves stable. there is no difference.

You need to read about the Japanese history. Japan was feudal in pre 1860s. After that it modernized by copying the West.

The Meiji period (明治時代, Meiji-jidai), also known as the Meiji era, is a Japanese era which extended from October 23, 1868, to July 30, 1912. This period represents the first half of the Empire of Japan during which Japanese society moved from being an isolated feudal society to its modern form. Fundamental changes ...

During the Meiji period Japan modernized from a backeward feudal society to a modern Western confiqured country. It did so by adopting European ways of doing things. The traditional Samuri were wiped out. That began the rise of Japan and soon she was accepted by the West in their exclusive club.

Don't bend this discussion into history to score some points in the argument I am not going to jump into history with you. Read this below.
now that feudal society has just vanished from the media and News

The feudal society still exists. You want change in Pakistan it is not going to come and it is not needed there is no need for revolution Pakistan is moving towards progress we don't need any revolution. The revolution which people want to bring in Pakistan is not revolution but destruction and we know it very well. Pakistan will take it's present thinking along with it into prosperity that is what world is afraid of. Why change the society. People here want this society that is why this society is as it is. the change you are talking about is not beneficial for us. Pakistan needs a Chinese model not a Turkish model. Turkey is at the door step of Europe we are not. We are Asian and the Asians core values hold many things. Tell me where has all great conquests ended and never went past that place. Subcontinent. From Genghis khan to Alexander to British no one went pass the subcontinent they all collapsed here and that happened for a reason the society and feudal and political system which has gripped the land for centuries and it is not some thing bad but it is who we are and why should we change to impress the world but we should make the world accept our system.

Khudi ko kar buland itna ka har taqdeer say pehlay Khuda banday say poochay bata teri raza kiya hai.
 
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This is the third thread i saw today on "Russia wants Pakistani footballs"...very childish
Russia cannot decide what football but only FIFA can and FIFA does

Yeah but you get the point that Pakistani handcraft is widely appreciated and trusted at world center stage.

Englishs not our first language. Lighten up a lil ok....

Its just a forum. Kids frequent here.

Go help the inuits or something its snowing up there
 
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Pakistan needs a Chinese model not a Turkish model.
Do you even know what the Chinese model is? Are you prepared to love with athiest one party Marxist inspired rule? And when you say Asian what the hell you mean? Turks? Iranians? Cambodians? Japanese? Pray but tell me what is the common denomintor in "Asia" other than they belong to the species Homo Sapiens?

And I am all for the Chinese model. Love to see Pakistan being "rebooted" like China. Would place Pakistan on the path to progress. For a start the pesky mullahs would be given a lesson or two on Marxism.

pillar nation
Great post Cybernetics. As China rises is it possible that Pakistan could tie itself to China as a "pillar nation". What changes do you think Pakistan needs to make and or do you expect China to impress on Pakistan for it profit from being a subsidiary nation much like Japan/South Korea/Turkey are of USA?
 
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Do you even know what the Chinese model is? Are you prepared to love with athiest one party Marxist inspired rule? And when you say Asian what the hell you mean? Turks? Iranians? Cambodians? Japanese? Pray but tell me what is the common denomintor in "Asia" other than they belong to the species Homo Sapiens?

And I am all for the Chinese model. Love to see Pakistan being "rebooted" like China. Would place Pakistan on the path to progress. For a start the pesky mullahs would be given a lesson or two on Marxism.
I am talking about Chinese economic model not atheist model.

Pakistan took the first step by removing it's support for strengthening Dollar and let it free float.
 
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I am talking about Chinese economic model not atheist model.
The Chinese economic model is part and parcel of wider political/economic and cultural sphere. It is product of the efforts and thoughts of the CCP. It is not informed by Islamic values by long shot. There is synergy between the Chinese economic model and other aspects of their society.

And please read @Cybernetics post at #15

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russ...balls-in-2018-world-cup.542505/#post-10222019
 
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I am talking about the same system.

World is not made by saints. Progress is not done by lovers. Every thing is taken to height by Killer. Those who kill do the progress. USA killed thousands for it economic progress. UK killed thousands. France just killed thousands in Libya just to get economic progress and cheap oil. USA is still killing thousands around the world to make demand for it's products. Sorry my friend it is killers that are making progress around the world that very military and social and political feudal society of killer is taking the world to progress and feeding masses home to keep them selves stable. there is no difference.



Don't bend this discussion into history to score some points in the argument I am not going to jump into history with you. Read this below.


The feudal society still exists. You want change in Pakistan it is not going to come and it is not needed there is no need for revolution Pakistan is moving towards progress we don't need any revolution. The revolution which people want to bring in Pakistan is not revolution but destruction and we know it very well. Pakistan will take it's present thinking along with it into prosperity that is what world is afraid of. Why change the society. People here want this society that is why this society is as it is. the change you are talking about is not beneficial for us. Pakistan needs a Chinese model not a Turkish model. Turkey is at the door step of Europe we are not. We are Asian and the Asians core values hold many things. Tell me where has all great conquests ended and never went past that place. Subcontinent. From Genghis khan to Alexander to British no one went pass the subcontinent they all collapsed here and that happened for a reason the society and feudal and political system which has gripped the land for centuries and it is not some thing bad but it is who we are and why should we change to impress the world but we should make the world accept our system.

Khudi ko kar buland itna ka har taqdeer say pehlay Khuda banday say poochay bata teri raza kiya hai.
I think the correct interpretation is those who are willing and able to defend their interests (no matter how narrow they may be). I don't believe we have to kill people to defend interests (though sometimes its unavoidable), there are other methods. If you don't care about their lives, then sure, its cheap and easy. There are other methods like incentives, persuasion, and coercing others, as devious or upsetting some less violent methods may seem, less people die. Often these methods are only afforded to patient countries who feel time is on their side.

All establishment circles have "clubs" it is how the incumbent protects their interest in the long term. They may and probably will have disagreements between them but in the long run protect similar interests. During the Spring and Autumn period in China there was the "civilized" club and others were considered non civilized, when a periphery kingdom developed enough and proved themselves invaluable to the others, they were admitted to the "civilized club" to protect the incumbent interests. The same is with our current climate, the problem is that most nations cannot make the leap and there is only one game in town.

Personally I don't think revolution is needed for reform but there must be a general consensus in society of valuing development (complacency is bad). A core interest group must be formed to allow long term planning and directing of national reforms and progress. This doesn't have to be a government organization, it can just be a group of people who wants to see development in their country and pushes micro issues, as an aggregate it will have macro effects. This another part of China's rise, there are very powerful civilian interest groups pushing for progress and development. If the water is bad, they will complain and expect the government to resolve it. If the education is lacking they will make strong demands too. They make demands on business environment too and show why government should support certain sectors. The force is unrelenting. They may be demanding but this interest group are also very willing to make concessions if its for the long term benefit. If the government demands land for development into a urban area, people are willing to sell, they just want their fair share of money.
 
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What was Chinese economic model they induced and suppressed their economy. What happened was Chinese were forced to work and develop their inner economy and devise methods to live with out foreign technology and develop their own solution. The Chinese economic model can work in every society.

I think the correct interpretation is those who are willing and able to defend their interests (no matter how narrow they may be). I don't believe we have to kill people to defend interests (though sometimes its unavoidable), there are other methods. If you don't care about their lives, the sure, its cheap and easy. There are other methods like incentives, persuasion, and coercing others, as devious or upsetting some less violent methods may seem, less people die. Often these methods are only afforded to patient countries who feel time is on their side.

All establishment circles have "clubs" it is how the incumbent protects their interest in the long term. They may and probably will have disagreements between them but in the long run protect similar interests. During the Spring and Autumn period in China there was the "civilized" club and others were considered non civilized, when a periphery kingdom developed enough and proved themselves invaluable to the others, they were admitted to the "civilized club" to protect the incumbent interests. The same is with our current climate, the problem is that most nations cannot make the leap and there is only one game in town.

Personally I don't think revolution is needed for reform but there must be a general consensus in society of valuing development (complacency is bad). A core interest group must be formed to allow long term planning and directing of national reforms and progress. This doesn't have to be a government organization, it can just be a group of people who wants to see development in their country and pushes micro issues, as an aggregate it will have macro effects. This another part of China's rise, there are very powerful civilian interest groups pushing for progress and development. If the water is bad, they will complain and expect the government to resolve it. If the education is lacking they will make strong demands too. The force is unrelenting. They may be demanding but this interest group are also very willing to make concessions if its for the long term benefit. If the government demands land for development into a urban area, people are willing to sell, they just want their fair share of money.

Just a simple question and you will understand what I mean.

Do you remember the image below.
The-unknown-rebel-in-front-of-tank-in-Tiananmen-Square.jpg


Now tell me If this man would have been successful in changing China would China have been successful? This is the very moment when a killer had a plan and he killed this revolution but gave china a status that China enjoys today. Some time medicine is bitter but you have to force feed it for the benefit. Change is not always good.
 
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Every nation can have independent national institutions but every country must be part of supernational institutions to survive nowadays, for defence, trade, education, information, and technology. These supernational institutions need an underwriter, and they tend to only be the largest (economically, technologically, and militarily) of nations.
Do you think Pakistan could become part of a Chinese supernational institutions and what changes [internal] would it have to make so that it could fit within the Chinese order?
 
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The Chinese economic model is part and parcel of wider political/economic and cultural sphere. It is product of the efforts and thoughts of the CCP. It is not informed by Islamic values by long shot. There is synergy between the Chinese economic model and other aspects of their society.

And please read @Cybernetics post at #15

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russ...balls-in-2018-world-cup.542505/#post-10222019
I have read his post his words are true but every situation is different. Pakistan is on it's way to progress let it happen nothing is going any where we will see it in next 5 years. If we are not successful we will change the model but we have to try it by holding our core values first and then the other way.
 
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Which are?
What we are a feudal political and military society.

@Kaptaan in night punjabi sindhi balochi and phatan we all eat daal and roti. That is what we are. There will be no mini skirts on streets but there will also be no compulsory hijabs on streets.
 
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What we are a feudal political and military society.
Feudal order is not compatible with modern economic realities. If you understood Cybernetics post you will know that to succeed either a country has to be large like USA or China or it will have to latch on to a larger power but which will require that country re-configuring itself to fit with the order set up by the larger power.

night punjabi sindhi balochi and phatan we all eat daal and roti.
I know. The same bunch that "ate daal roti" while few English came and made slave of them all for 98 years. Keep eating "daal roti".

And being reductive to "mini-skirt" is dumber than dumb. It's absurd.
 
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Feudal order is not compatible with modern economic realities. If you understood Cybernetics post you will know that to succeed either a country has to be large like USA or China or it will have to latch on to a larger power but which will require that country re-configuring itself to fit with the order set up by the larger power.

So what did China did? they accepted the order of higher power and worked and then emerged them selves. Pervaiz-Elahi once said if you are a small fish don't hunt but start living with a big fish and eat from the left overs of the big fish until you your self grow big and once you are big eat the big fish.

I know. The same bunch that "ate daal roti" while few English came and made slave of them all for 98 years. Keep eating "daal roti".

And being reductive to "mini-skirt" is dumber than dumb. It's absurd.

yes English came and ruled for 98 years but they were not able to break the will of the people for 98 years the revolt that stood in their way continued for 98 years and they were defeated in the end by those who eat daal and roti. Look at British now they have been pushed and pushed back and are confined to one Island continuously for 70 years. It is not about the political system but more about the eco system of this planet. the world is changing we don't need social revolution we need economic revolution and economic revolution is coming with out social. If there will be mini skirts on streets that will change the thinking and make it broad but that will also reduce our relational values.

Now look at west they get out on streets only when some thing wrong is highlighted on twitter but Pakistanis don't need twitter to get out on streets. we get on streets when some one around us is hurt. look out Naqib murder case it was the relational values that made the voices heard not twitter.
 
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Do you even know what the Chinese model is? Are you prepared to love with athiest one party Marxist inspired rule? And when you say Asian what the hell you mean? Turks? Iranians? Cambodians? Japanese? Pray but tell me what is the common denomintor in "Asia" other than they belong to the species Homo Sapiens?

And I am all for the Chinese model. Love to see Pakistan being "rebooted" like China. Would place Pakistan on the path to progress. For a start the pesky mullahs would be given a lesson or two on Marxism.

Great post Cybernetics. As China rises is it possible that Pakistan could tie itself to China as a "pillar nation". What changes do you think Pakistan needs to make and or do you expect China to impress on Pakistan for it profit from being a subsidiary nation much like Japan/South Korea/Turkey are of USA?
Thanks Kaptaan. I do think China can become a pillar nation for Pakistan in the future but I hope it won't be premature as China has not completed building the supernational institutions. The world is in flux, we must not solidify the world order so quickly. In China the hawks are in power and they desire a special long term relationship with Pakistan (but pretend to be nonchalant), so many long term interests are tying together. For no other country does China have such a comprehensive strategy on development.

The healthy progression for Pakistan is self actualised development with some outside assistance and catalyst. I think it is wrong for an outsider to be the all encompassing director of a nation because it eliminates the fruits of micro interactions of a nation, which is bad for development. China can become a catalyst and the compounds are entirely Pakistani, China will realign national focus. The most important thing is to progress with CPEC, institutions will form around solving the realities that arise from the project and facilitating that development is important. Vital areas where both countries needs to work hard on are: Education, developmentally focused mentality (inspiration is important), and willingness to explore. This can be facilitated through physical movement of people, through migrant workers into a new environment (ie Gwadar).

What was Chinese economic model they induced and suppressed their economy. What happened was Chinese were forced to work and develop their inner economy and devise methods to live with out foreign technology and develop their own solution. The Chinese economic model can work in every society.



Just a simple question and you will understand what I mean.

Do you remember the image below.
The-unknown-rebel-in-front-of-tank-in-Tiananmen-Square.jpg


Now tell me If this man would have been successful in changing China would China have been successful? This is the very moment when a killer had a plan and he killed this revolution but gave china a status that China enjoys today. Some time medicine is bitter but you have to force feed it for the benefit. Change is not always good.
This man left the scene with a group of people urging him to leave and in the video the tank was trying to avoid him. I have said that "though sometimes its unavoidable" regarding deaths and have stated not all change is good, revolution can be damaging. The instigator of the violence was some protesters when they lynched a soldier, the authorities tried to be restraint but that was going too far. The core interests of a nation surpasses individuals, but it is important to not see every problem as a nail and your only tool is a hammer. This is only an underlying logic, every Chinese leader understood this but its tool box was severely limited. Nowadays, they implement much more soft and precise measures.
Do you think Pakistan could become part of a Chinese supernational institutions and what changes [internal] would it have to make so that it could fit within the Chinese order?
Yes, a big one is trade. Pakistan is an integral part of the future trade plan and might be home to a future currency trade hub. This will tie in some aspects of military industry. Too many aspects to talk about but the earlier Pakistan negotiates with China the bigger share it has as this is not a solidified organisation (some not even existing on paper, the foundations are being built), in the future the pie will be split more amongst other members. Negotiation is not just about talking, it is helping the process of forming these institutions. Founding members always gets a premium for the risk and effort they took.

There must be better awareness among people about long term national goals and plans. In China people are encouraged (if they are civil servants they must study it) to read national agendas because it includes a broad range of interest groups. Students even write some essays about it for class work. It makes everyone feel their small personal goals are working towards a bigger national goal, often indirectly. This builds self worth and a clear vision.
 
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