Russia to refurbish Il-78 refuelling tanker aircraft for Pakistan Air Force

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

This modification could be done though

But for boom refueling for the F-16?

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/refuel/boom-receiver.jpg

 

[Khafee]

Lets move on from Boom, shall we.

What exactly will these refurbishments include? Glass cockpit? New engines? Structural strengthening? A Boom? OR just a D-check?

 

[GumNaam]

If the first of the four aircraft was delivered in 2009, it already needs refurbishment so soon?

Ana THAT would be just ONE of the many reasons why Pakistan doesn't want to pursue the SU35.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Ana THAT would be just ONE of the many reasons why Pakistan doesn't want to pursue the SU35.

Not exactly.

The Ukrainian IL-78s were already very used when the PAF procured them (i.e. ex-Soviet surplus), the planes were basically just bought as-is. Now the IL-78s are going through a proper manufacturer-certified overhaul.

 

[Hell hound]

Ana THAT would be just ONE of the many reasons why Pakistan doesn't want to pursue the SU35.

as explained by other posters we got them second hand from Ukraine. these jets are about 20 to 30 year old

 

[Basel]

Not exactly.

The Ukrainian IL-78s were already very used when the PAF procured them (i.e. ex-Soviet surplus), the planes were basically just bought as-is. Now the IL-78s are going through a proper manufacturer-certified overhaul.

Is it better to buy latest version of Russian MRTT aircraft from Russia or buy used airbus 310-320 and convert them into MRTT???

 

[The Diplomat]

4 only ? are they enough for air force like Pakistan ?

4 is more than enough for now. We have 2 types of aircraft that can use these tanker aircraft; the JF-17 Block II and the Mirage (which will be retired by 2025).

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Is it better to buy latest version of Russian MRTT aircraft from Russia or buy used airbus 310-320 and convert them into MRTT???

I'd try buying 2-3 used Airbus A330s and finding companies with experience sourcing and integrating boom and hose-and-drogue refueling technology. It will be a custom solution, but probably much cheaper than an off-the-shelf Airbus A330 MRTT.

 

[TOPGUN]

I still think that PAF needs at least 2 tankers for its vipers ........

 

[Basel]

4 is more than enough for now. We have 2 types of aircraft that can use these tanker aircraft; the JF-17 Block II and the Mirage (which will be retired by 2025).

4 are not enough, they are not just tankers they are also cargo transport planes (MRTT), all 4 can not be available all the time, it is also important what is their availability ratio.

 

[aziqbal]

There was talk of a 5th Midas tanker back when the deal was struck with Ukraine but nothing came of it

Certainly another 4 units for PAF would be beneficial, one squadron for northern command and one for southern command

With naval missions Midas tanker will be crucial especially with the JF17 carrying two anti ship missiles

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

There was talk of a 5th Midas tanker back when the deal was struck with Ukraine but nothing came of it

Certainly another 4 units for PAF would be beneficial, one squadron for northern command and one for southern command

With naval missions Midas tanker will be crucial especially with the JF17 carrying two anti ship missiles

For northern command it'd make more sense to have a tanker capable of hose-and-drogue as well as boom, thus enabling the F-16s. It would be prudent to consider a bespoke solution using the A330. The Israelis are doing this with the Boeing 767 MMTT program, which is being led by IAI. The PAF will need to find the right subsystem suppliers and a competent integration firm, but it is doable.

 

[aziqbal]

For northern command it'd make more sense to have a tanker capable of hose-and-drogue as well as boom, thus enabling the F-16s. It would be prudent to consider a bespoke solution using the A330. The Israelis are doing this with the Boeing 767 MMTT program, which is being led by IAI. The PAF will need to find the right subsystem suppliers and a competent integration firm, but it is doable.

This is a expensive solution using A330

Also adding tanker for F16 will add significant strain on maintenance and overhaul, keeping a F16 in the air for long periods of time in the long term is probably not what PAF wants to excercise it a point we miss

Ukraine still have surplus Midas tankers PLAAF is getting 3 units, they also have IL-76 for cargo use which can be converted to tankers

KC-135 and A330 as well as A310 which is operated by PIA have long been explored and came to no fruitful conclusion my guess is again the cost

 

[Blue Marlin]

I'd try buying 2-3 used Airbus A330s and finding companies with experience sourcing and integrating boom and hose-and-drogue refueling technology. It will be a custom solution, but probably much cheaper than an off-the-shelf Airbus A330 MRTT.

thats what Australia did some of their a330 mrtt's are ex qantas

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

This is a expensive solution using A330

Also adding tanker for F16 will add significant strain on maintenance and overhaul, keeping a F16 in the air for long periods of time in the long term is probably not what PAF wants to excercise it a point we miss

Ukraine still have surplus Midas tankers PLAAF is getting 3 units, they also have IL-76 for cargo use which can be converted to tankers

KC-135 and A330 as well as A310 which is operated by PIA have long been explored and came to no fruitful conclusion my guess is again the cost

The PAF actually sought A-310 MRTTs back in the mid-2000s, but Airbus basically removed that platform from its catalog and began pushing the A330 MRTT. However, I am not advocating for the Airbus DS A330 MRTT, but a custom solution using the A330 as the platform. In this respect, the PAF will have some control over who it decides as the subsystem vendors and integration contractor.

Since logistics is an issue, the goal should be to ultimately supplant and replace the IL-78s. Yes, these are cheap platforms to buy, but they are not as efficient to operate as a civilian airliner. More saved fuel equates to more fuel for the fighters in need of the tanker. Besides that, one can still utilize the A330 for ferrying personnel and supplies while it operates as a AAR tanker. In terms of maintenance and logistics, there's no beating the scale, adoption, and massively distributed supply channel of the A330.

Anyways, the boom refueling is just a major gain if you think about it. When the F-16s need it, they can use it (e.g. when deployed for exercises or genuine wartime endurance runs), but the same A330 would use hose-and-drogue, thereby supporting the JF-17s and other compatible aircraft (e.g. C-130).